Top 10 Crows in relation to BnF top-5 ratings

[John Who]

Here’s a more “relatively objective” take on who has been the top 10 Crows players to have ever played for AFC. I’ve used data for top-5 BnF results from 1991-2023.

Club Champions | Adelaide Football Club

YEARCLUB CHAMPION Click on names to see player profilesTOP FIVE1991Mark MickanMark Mickan, Tony McGuinness, Nigel Smart, Andrew Jarman, Chris McDermott 1992Chris McDermottChris McDermott…

crowshistory.afc.com.au

1. Laird - 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd
(3 BnF; 8 top-5; 8 top-3)

2. McLeod - 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4th, 4th, 4th, 1st
(3 BnF; 8 top-5; 5 top-3)

3. Goodwin - 5th, 1st, 4th, 5th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd
(3 BnF; 8 top-5; 5 top-3)

4. Roo - 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 5th, 3rd, 1st, 1st
(3 BnF; 7 top-5; 6 top-3)

5. Sloane - 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd
(2 BnF; 6 top-5; 6 top-3)

6. Hart - 5th, 4th, 1st, 5th, 3rd, 1st
(2 BnF; 6 top-5; 3 top-3)

7. Thompson - 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st (2 BnF; 5 top-5; 5 top-3)

8. Dangerfield - 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 1st (1 BnF; 5 top-5; 4 top-3)

9. Edwards - 4th, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd
(0 BnF; 8 top-5; 4 top-3)

10. Walker - 5th, 5th, 5th, 4th, 4th, 3rd (0 BnF; 6 top-5; 1 top-3)

———————————
Some observations:

• Dangerfield would likely be a higher ranking had he stayed with us.
• Laird a great player among an era of rebuild.
• Edwards a great player, unlucky in an era of champions.
• Sloane surprisingly consistent in the first half of his career.

 

[BunjiMac]

This is not really a good reflection of the top 10 players to play for the crows

 

[Sanders]

Oh John…

 

[Coopers]

This is not really a good reflection of the top 10 players to play for the crows

It's least an objective way of doing it, with some actual data.

 

[radiojake]

Matt Connell > Taylor Walker

13

Taylor Walker

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.7

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

 

[Sanders]

It's least an objective way of doing it, with some actual data.

No. Choice of methodology is subjective

 

[1970crow]

Here’s a more “relatively objective” take on who has been the top 10 Crows players to have ever played for AFC. I’ve used data for top-5 BnF results from 1991-2023.

Club Champions | Adelaide Football Club

YEARCLUB CHAMPION Click on names to see player profilesTOP FIVE1991Mark MickanMark Mickan, Tony McGuinness, Nigel Smart, Andrew Jarman, Chris McDermott 1992Chris McDermottChris McDermott…

crowshistory.afc.com.au

1. Laird - 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd
(3 BnF; 8 top-5; 8 top-3)

2. McLeod - 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4th, 4th, 4th, 1st
(3 BnF; 8 top-5; 5 top-3)

3. Goodwin - 5th, 1st, 4th, 5th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd
(3 BnF; 8 top-5; 5 top-3)

4. Sloane - 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd
(2 BnF; 6 top-5; 6 top-3)

5. Roo - 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 5th, 3rd, 1st
(2 BnF; 6 top-5; 5 top-3)

6. Hart - 5th, 4th, 1st, 5th, 3rd, 1st
(2 BnF; 6 top-5; 3 top-3)

7. Thompson - 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 1st (2 BnF; 5 top-5; 5 top-3)

8. Dangerfield - 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 1st (1 BnF; 5 top-5; 4 top-3)

9. Edwards - 4th, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd
(0 BnF; 8 top-5; 4 top-3)

10. Walker - 5th, 5th, 5th, 4th, 4th, 3rd (0 BnF; 6 top-5; 1 top-3)

———————————
Some observations:

• Dangerfield would likely be a higher ranking had he stayed with us.
• Laird a great player among an era of rebuild.
• Edwards a great player, unlucky in an era of champions.
• Sloane surprisingly consistent in the first half of his career.

it ignores relative quality of competitors for top few spots. Almost worthless.

 

[El Doederino]

It's least an objective way of doing it, with some actual data.

So is if you did it in alphabetic order

 

[Smoooothy]

this is a great example of using stats to support your argument wrongly

 

[John Who]

This is not really a good reflection of the top 10 players to play for the crows

If we take into account the quality of skills AND the duration of contribution to the club, I don’t think it’s far off the mark.

Do you have an alternative parameter where it’s more reflective of the club’s top 10?

 

[John Who]

No. Choice of methodology is subjective

So you’re saying there is an objective choice of methodology on this topic?
(Btw, that was a rhetorical question, I can’t be stuffed with your games these days)

 

[John Who]

this is a great example of using stats to support your argument wrongly

The stats here is to give some perspective on those who have performed at the highest level at the club with repeated years of excellence. No one can argue a top 10 like it’s a fact. That would be nonsense.

 

[Sanders]

So you’re saying there is an objective choice of methodology on this topic?
(Btw, that was a rhetorical question, I can’t be stuffed with your games these days)

Quite amazing that simple statements of fact confuse you.

 

[Sanders]

The stats here is to give some perspective on those who have performed at the highest level at the club with repeated years of excellence. No one can argue a top 10 like it’s a fact. That would be nonsense.

Word salad

 

[screech]

Would be interesting to see how it would change if you rated the top 5 finishes based on ladder position.

Two of Andrew McLeod

Andrew Mcleod

Age

47

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.8

5star

K

13.1

5star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

's top 5 finishes were in Premiership years, one of Rory Laird

29

Rory Laird

Age

30

Ht

177cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

12.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.0

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

's was in a wooden spoon year and a further 5 in years we missed finals.

 

[BunjiMac]

If we take into account the quality of skills AND the duration of contribution to the club, I don’t think it’s far off the mark.

Do you have an alternative parameter where it’s more reflective of the club’s top 10?

In no world is Laird the number 1 player to play for the crows, he'd be lucky to make the top 10.

I think this says it all.

 

[John Who]

Would be interesting to see how it would change if you rated the top 5 finishes based on ladder position.

Two of Andrew McLeod's top 5 finishes were in Premiership years, one of Rory Laird's was in a wooden spoon year and a further 5 in years we missed finals.

I like your line of thinking! No matter what, it’s going to end up being a subjective process anyway. For example, how would you calibrate a BnF in a premiership year vs PF year vs just making the top 8 vs wooden spoon year?

I think combining the above data with the amount of of AA awards and Brownlow votes maybe a fairer indicator of the rankings. These 2 awards are more reflective of the level of eliteness in a given year, regardless of where the team ends on the ladder.

 

[skam85]

what in the mental gymnastics

 

[Soggy2112]

Here’s a more “relatively objective” take on who has been the top 10 Crows players to have ever played for AFC. I’ve used data for top-5 BnF results from 1991-2023.


5. Roo - 3rd, 3rd, 1st, 5th, 3rd, 1st
(2 BnF; 6 top-5; 5 top-3)

Picking one single measurement and then claiming that’s “relatively objective” is just silly.

I think we can all agree that any list that doesn’t have McLeod and Ricciuto at 1 and 2 (then we can debate which way around that goes), is a bad one.

Side note, Roo has 3 BnFs.

 

[John Who]

Picking one single measurement and then claiming that’s “relatively objective” is just silly.

I think we can all agree that any list that doesn’t have McLeod and Ricciuto at 1 and 2 (then we can debate which way around that goes), is a bad one.

Side note, Roo has 3 BnFs.

Thanks for the correction with Roo. I’ve edited the first post and adjusted the rankings according to the top-5 BnF ratings.

Technically it is “relatively objective” because I’m not using any subjective emotions to come up with this list, just merely compiling the numbers in an article I came across recently. You can argue that it doesn’t quite meet your expectations, but it should in the least carry some weight to know who the most consistent and best players turn up each season for the Crows?

My guess is Laird doesn’t fit most fan’s expectations as being the top of the list, so probably need to add further parameters according to how you see fit. This isn’t the be all top 10 list, but just to highlight one perspective among many.

 

[Sanders]

Technically it is “relatively objective” because I’m not using any subjective emotions to come up with this list

Peak Dr Who. Classic!

 

[John Who]

Peak Dr Who. Classic!

Sanders do you enjoy life as an online parasite? Is it fulfilling?

 

[Sanders]

Sanders do you enjoy life as an online parasite? Is it fulfilling?

That’s not very objective John.

 

[Soggy2112]

Thanks for the correction with Roo. I’ve edited the first post and adjusted the rankings according to the top-5 BnF ratings.

Technically it is “relatively objective” because I’m not using any subjective emotions to come up with this list, just merely compiling the numbers in an article I came across recently. You can argue that it doesn’t quite meet your expectations, but it should in the least carry some weight to know who the most consistent and best players turn up each season for the Crows?

My guess is Laird doesn’t fit most fan’s expectations as being the top of the list, so probably need to add further parameters according to how you see fit. This isn’t the be all top 10 list, but just to highlight one perspective among many.

224 games, 28 goals, 3x BnF, 2x All-Australian

312 games, 294 goals, Premiership player, Brownlow medallist, 3x BnF, 8x All-Australian (twice captain), leading goalkicker

340 games, 275 goals, 2x premiership player, 2x Norm Smith medallist, 3x BnF,
5x All-Australian (once captain)

I agree with you that Laird is treated disrespectfully on here, but let’s not pretend that it’s subjective emotion that leads us to view McLeod and Roo as our two best ever.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Picking one single measurement and then claiming that’s “relatively objective” is just silly.

I think we can all agree that any list that doesn’t have McLeod and Ricciuto at 1 and 2 (then we can debate which way around that goes), is a bad one.

Side note, Roo has 3 BnFs.

I actually don’t mind John’s attempts to use best and fairest data to inform an opinion… and I like other folks suggestions that it provides an incomplete picture and that one could include ladder position/finals wins etc. to add weight to said opinion… and I don’t dispute that Roo and McLeod were two of the all time greats to play the game… and yet despite him not even being on this list, having never won a best and fairest/brownlow/norm smith, I will go to my grave arguing that Darren Jarman is the best footballer I’ve ever seen play the game. Not the most dominant or consistent certainly, but the best? Yep. Hands down the most talented/creative/intelligent footballer I’ve watched. So using the methodology of me watching and enjoying football, Darren Jarman is the best to ever pull on the Crows guernsey. And everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. Why? Because I said so.

I guess I’m also saying that any metric that has Darren Jarman outside the top 10 Crows over the years is pretty flawed… but interesting. I like it.