UEFA Champions League R16

[jd2010]

Messi could nutmeg a mermaid.

That is all

When am I receiving that loyalty cheque?

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

When am I receiving that loyalty cheque?

Never.

I claim ignorance.

 

[Shoei]

Lahm, Mueller, Alaba, Schweinsteiger = homegrown
Ribery - Marseille, Robben, Alonso - Real Madrid, Martinez - Bilbao, Benatia - Roma, Boateng - Man City (unwanted by them), Rafinha - Genoa
Neuer, Lewandowski, Dante and Goetze the only players from other Bundesliga teams

Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool and Man Utd have no players from other EPL teams?????

The point is how much more money Bayern has compared to every other team in that league.

Bayern are ranked #3 in Deloittes money league for yearly revenue at 487m. The next best German teams are Dortmund at 11 (261m) and Schalke #14 (213m).

Bayern earn 2x more revenue than the 3rd highest team in Germany.

Compare that to England Man United (516m) Man City (414m) Chelsea (387m) Arsenal (359m) Liverpool (305m)

Manchester United earn only 1.6x more revenue more than Liverpool

(Im not going to do Spain because its a ******* joke - Madrid with 549m, Barcelona with 484m and Atletico 3rd with.......170m )


Look at their spending compared to others in the league -

419m since 07/08 Bayern
312m since 07/08 Wolfsburg
193m since 07/08 Dortmund
134m since 07/08 Bayer o4
128m since 07/08 Schalke
93m since 07/08 Monchengladbach

 

[LeoMessi]

The point is how much more money Bayern has compared to every other team in that league.

Bayern are ranked #3 in Deloittes money league for yearly revenue at 487m. The next best German teams are Dortmund at 11 (261m) and Schalke #14 (213m).

Bayern earn 2x more revenue than the 3rd highest team in Germany.

Compare that to England Man United (516m) Man City (414m) Chelsea (387m) Arsenal (359m) Liverpool (305m)

Manchester United earn only 1.6x more revenue more than Liverpool

(Im not going to do Spain because its a ******* joke - Madrid with 549m, Barcelona with 484m and Atletico 3rd with.......170m )


Look at their spending compared to others in the league -

419m since 07/08 Bayern
312m since 07/08 Wolfsburg
193m since 07/08 Dortmund
134m since 07/08 Bayer o4
128m since 07/08 Schalke
93m since 07/08 Monchengladbach

I thought we were talking about competitiveness on the pitch not financially

 

[kaiserchief13]

The point is how much more money Bayern has compared to every other team in that league.

Bayern are ranked #3 in Deloittes money league for yearly revenue at 487m. The next best German teams are Dortmund at 11 (261m) and Schalke #14 (213m).

Bayern earn 2x more revenue than the 3rd highest team in Germany.

Compare that to England Man United (516m) Man City (414m) Chelsea (387m) Arsenal (359m) Liverpool (305m)

Manchester United earn only 1.6x more revenue more than Liverpool

(Im not going to do Spain because its a ******* joke - Madrid with 549m, Barcelona with 484m and Atletico 3rd with.......170m )


Look at their spending compared to others in the league -

419m since 07/08 Bayern
312m since 07/08 Wolfsburg
193m since 07/08 Dortmund
134m since 07/08 Bayer o4
128m since 07/08 Schalke
93m since 07/08 Monchengladbach

In Germany TV rights are evenly split between every team. What do you expert Bayern to do? Ask for less money from commercial agreements to make it more even?

 

[kaiserchief13]

I thought we were talking about competitiveness on the pitch not financially

We were but then somebody said Bayern takes players from any team and that wouldn't happen in EPL

 

[Cruyff14]

I thought we were talking about competitiveness on the pitch not financially

The two go hand in hand.

 

[moomba]

Just been reading about the new seeding system for next season. Ill be amazed if we don't get two top 10 sides in our group.

 

[Cruyff14]

Details?

 

[Magma]

campaign for better system, cop the same results as the old system

typical city that

 

[moomba]

Details?

League winners from Spain, England, Germany, Italy, Portugal, France, Russia and the champions league winner go into the first pot.

Then it goes on co-efficients.

As it stands a group could consist of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Manchester City, A N Other. I'm off to the bookies.

 

[Shoei]

I thought we were talking about competitiveness on the pitch not financially

In Germany TV rights are evenly split between every team. What do you expert Bayern to do? Ask for less money from commercial agreements to make it more even?

You cant separate the two.

The WHOLE point is that Real, Barcelona and Bayern have no teams in their domestic leagues that come close to being able to compete with them on a financial level.

It is not competitive at all.

This idea that Bayern, Barcelona and Real would dominate the same way in the EPL is a joke because they'd finally need to consistently compete against teams are equal in financial footing.

 

[Cruyff14]

League winners from Spain, England, Germany, Italy, Portugal, France, Russia and the champions league winner go into the first pot.

Then it goes on co-efficients.

As it stands a group could consist of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Manchester City, A N Other. I'm off to the bookies.

How ridiculous.

 

[Latro]

 

[moomba]

From a quick check, pot 2 (as it stands) will be:

Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Porto, Man United (qualifier), PSG, Valencia, Bayer Leverkusen (qualifier).

City are next in line.

 

[Shoei]

Can teams from the same country still not be drawn together?

 

[moomba]

Can teams from the same country still not be drawn together?

I'm presuming they can't.

 

[jd2010]

Bundesliga from 2-20 is a great competition. It's just a shame everyone is fighting for 2nd and if they ever look a genuine threat will lose their stars to Bayern. If you look at the sides who are just above relegation zones across the big 5 leagues I'd say definitely Germany is the strongest, with England and France in a close 2nd & 3rd. Italy a fair bit behind them and Spain even further back...

Koln, Hannover, Hertha, Hamburg
Everton, Hull, Villa, Sunderland
Caen, Lorient, Nice, Evian
Verona, Empoli, Chievo, Atalanta
Eibar, Elche, Almeria, Deportivo

 

[gaelictiogar]

Denilson would also have a claim to best dribbler. There are plenty, not to discredit Messi, but Ronaldinho probably better. R9 in his pomp was unstoppable.

All opinions are valid but it is almost beyond argument that if the dribble completion stats of all the players you mention were analysed beside those of Messi we would see a large gap suggesting far greater penetration and productivity from Messi's dribbles.

That is the thing about the goal. com whoscored, opta etc stuff we now have. Subjective opinion is exposed to objective reality. Year in year out Messi posts more - many more - successfully completed dribbles than anyone else. I'd give you 100 dollars to 10 that his stats would comfortably eclipse Denilson, Ronaldinho etc if the comparison process was undergone in fact its almost a certainty.

He has completed more dribbles this year than Neymar and Ronaldo together !!!!!

Reality shines light on opinion and reveals truth.

 

[Cruyff14]

All opinions are valid but it is almost beyond argument that if the dribble completion stats of all the players you mention were analysed beside those of Messi we would see a large gap suggesting far greater penetration and productivity from Messi's dribbles.

That is the thing about the goal. com whoscored, opta etc stuff we now have. Subjective opinion is exposed to objective reality. Year in year out Messi posts more - many more - successfully completed dribbles than anyone else. I'd give you 100 dollars to 10 that his stats would comfortably eclipse Denilson, Ronaldinho etc if the comparison process was undergone in fact its almost a certainty.

He has completed more dribbles this year than Neymar and Ronaldo together !!!!!

Reality shines light on opinion and reveals truth.

Opta, whoscored wasn't around when Denilson played to start with.

Secondly, if Ronaldinho sustained his period of peak, I don't think it would be so clear cut (to either party), as you're suggesting. Ronaldinho was absolutely sublime. If he had the drive and motivation of Messi, he would probably still be doing a solid job.

And Barca got even better once Ronaldinho left - imagine him in the 2010-12 side.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Opta, whoscored wasn't around when Denilson played to start with.

Secondly, if Ronaldinho sustained his period of peak, I don't think it would be so clear cut (to either party), as you're suggesting. Ronaldinho was absolutely sublime. If he had the drive and motivation of Messi, he would probably still be doing a solid job.

And Barca got even better once Ronaldinho left - imagine him in the 2010-12 side.

Letme give you an example of when we do have stats.

In 2009/10 Dinho played 34 serie A games for Milan averaging exactly 2 completed dribbles per game. In the same season Messi averaged 5.7 in his 30 games for Barca. Almost 3 times as many. Source whoscored.

OK Dinho was beginning to decline etc but the gap is huge and would be huge any year. Messi beats more players, more often than Dinho, than anyone. That is the simple statistical reality.

 

[Cruyff14]

Can you compare when Ronaldinho was the same age as Messi (or at his peak)?

Ronaldinho at Milan was a shadow of his former self.

His Barca days were when he was the best in the world.

It would be like comparing Gerrard to David Silva now.

 

[Jatz]

Can you compare when Ronaldinho was the same age as Messi (or at his peak)?

Ronaldinho at Milan was a shadow of his former self.

His Barca days were when he was the best in the world.

It would be like comparing Gerrard to David Silva now.

Gerrard is miles ahead. Amirite jod23 ?

 

[gaelictiogar]

Can you compare when Ronaldinho was the same age as Messi (or at his peak)?

Ronaldinho at Milan was a shadow of his former self.

His Barca days were when he was the best in the world.

It would be like comparing Gerrard to David Silva now.

Whoscored don't have the stats to hand but Dinho was 29 in 2009/10 - no old man - and I'm sure a bit of digging would reveal the stats.

The gap would still be huge even accounting for age etc.

people simply don't engage with stats so don't realise just how far ahead of everyone Messi actually is. EG he regularly completes more than twice as many as Cristiano who many rate as an all time great. I bet that fact would come as a surprise to most soccer fans.

World renowned dribblers like Robben, Cristiano, Dinho etc regularly complete 2 to 3 per game. Messi is at about 5 to 6 year on year.....there is no comparison in fact.

Of course we all have subjective personal preference but the objective reality is easily ascertained.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Letme give you an example of when we do have stats.

In 2009/10 Dinho played 34 serie A games for Milan averaging exactly 2 completed dribbles per game. In the same season Messi averaged 5.7 in his 30 games for Barca. Almost 3 times as many. Source whoscored.

OK Dinho was beginning to decline etc but the gap is huge and would be huge any year. Messi beats more players, more often than Dinho, than anyone. That is the simple statistical reality.

The standard of defending in Serie A>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>La Liga.
Tbh, i complete more dribbles in indoor per game than Messi.

Using 1 season from Ronaldinho when he wasn't in his prime is ridiculous. Using stats that weren't recorded when most of his competition for this mystical award were playing is just as ridiculous.