Current Undercover police fed an autistic 13yo fixation with ISIS then charged him with terror offences

[Kurve]

'Thomas' is an NDIS recipient with an IQ of 71. He was actually targeted.

Counter-terrorism police encouraged an autistic 13-year-old boy in his fixation on Islamic State in an undercover operation after his parents sought help from the authorities.

The boy, given the pseudonym Thomas Carrick, was later charged with terror offences after an undercover officer “fed his fixation” and “doomed” the rehabilitation efforts Thomas and his parents had engaged in, a Victorian children’s court magistrate found.

Thomas spent three months in custody before he was granted bail in October 2022, after an earlier bail was revoked because he failed to comply with conditions.

How Australian undercover police ‘fed’ an autistic 13-year-old’s fixation with Islamic State

Court finds counter-terrorism unit’s conduct fell ‘profoundly short’ of minimum standards expected of law enforcement officers

www.theguardian.com

You really have to read this to believe it. His parents must feel utterly betrayed.

 

[BFew]

It's the sort of case that in past decades would have people being labelled conspiracy theorists if they even suggested that Government Authorities in Australia would even consider doing this sort of thing.

Now, I don't think that many people would even that surprised that this sort of thing has been going on in recent years.

This expose gives the public insight into the MO of the AFP when it comes to try to secure a conviction or take what some would call pro-active action against those that might become terrorists.

Noble cause law enforcement/prosecution.

Are any of the other main stream media going to report on this?
19 hours since the Guardian story and not a peep from the rest of the media.

Or will doing so likely compromise their future access to info from Police, as it is incredibly embarrassing for both the AFP, VIC Police and ASIO, and all of their Government Masters with oversight, policy, Ministerial and legislative responsibilities.

' ...Thomas was investigated and charged with two terror offences by the Joint Counter Terrorism Team (JCTT), which comprises Australian federal police, Victoria police and Asio members.
Australia’s surveillance laws: let’s hear from those at the pointy end before the spies
The court granted a permanent stay on the charges in October last year, but a copy of the decision has only recently been published.
....

'AFP assistant and deputy commissioners had been involved in authorising the operation which resulted in Thomas being charged, and that “the AFP was at all times aware of TC’s age, his complex mental health issues, and his fixation on ISIS”.

A decision to arrest Thomas was authorised by an assistant commissioner after a detective superintendent failed to inform them that they had information the undercover operation was having a negative impact on therapeutically changing Thomas’s behaviour.
...'

 

[Kurve]

 

[BFew]

Are any of the other main stream media going to report on this?
19 hours since the Guardian story and not a peep from the rest of the media.

SMH this morning.

Counter-terrorism police ‘fed fixation’ of autistic boy with IQ of 71

Officers fell “profoundly short” of the minimum standards expected after an undercover agent posing as an extremist engaged with a 13-year-old online, a Melbourne magistrate has found.

www.smh.com.au

 

[jason_recliner]

Let's hope in 4 years time he doesn't mow down pedestrians with his car.

 

[Festerz]

SMH this morning.

Counter-terrorism police ‘fed fixation’ of autistic boy with IQ of 71

Officers fell “profoundly short” of the minimum standards expected after an undercover agent posing as an extremist engaged with a 13-year-old online, a Melbourne magistrate has found.

www.smh.com.au

What is stunning in that media report is that it is simply a cut and paste from the judgement of Magistrate Lesley Fleming's judgement delivered in October last year but only released this week.

It contains no editorial or journalistic analysis of why the AFP, with commissioner level approval, acted thee way they did and why against a 13 year old and in betraying the trust of his parents. There is no assessment of the implications for both the family and the police process in general.

Hopefully that will be incoming once media outlets have had the chance to examine the decision and speak with those involved.

Until then we can just continue to be shocked at yet another example of those charged with upholding the law ignore it and speculate on what that means for declining community trust in our police forces.

 

[BFew]

Hopefully that will be incoming once media outlets have had the chance to examine the decision and speak with those involved.

Would probably also depend on whether there is any current serious legal action underway against authorities from the family of the young lad.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't.

 

[Festerz]

Let's hope in 4 years time he doesn't mow down pedestrians with his car.

Then best focus on the illegal entrapment methods of the AFP on a 13 year old intellectually challenged kid and the disregard shown to the concerns of his parents who were and are best placed to assist in preventing that happening.

 

[Festerz]

No one dodges accountability better than the AFP.


AFP Commissioner says that this 13 year old kid was 'well on the path to radicalisation' long before the kids mum asked for their help as if that's an excuse. They dodged all responsibility to the kid, the mum and the long term safety of the community - they wanted a collar to add to their woeful charging history.

The AFP have 6,000 staff, and last year charged 373 people. They say the small numbers is because the AFP focus is "high value targets" but how on earth does a 13 year old boy figure into this?

The Court found they did not want to help the lad but their aim was to push him further down that path with suggestions of him becoming a sniper and a suicide bomber and then they charged him when he hit the legal age of responsibility at 14

 

[jason_recliner]

Then best focus on the illegal entrapment methods of the AFP on a 13 year old intellectually challenged kid and the disregard shown to the concerns of his parents who were and are best placed to assist in preventing that happening.

Or maybe best to focus on the movements and actions of an intellectually challenged unintelligent person fixated on ISIS. I know very little about law enforcement methodology and legality so take this with a grain of salt but it is possibly a tricky, problematic situation for all involved. Parents contact police, intellectually disabled kid is showing tendencies towards dangerous/criminal behaviour, police don't act with enough force/deterrance/prevention... 5-10 years later he kills somebody... who wants that on their conscience? Maybe they explored a range of options and their hands were tied to a degree but they perceived the kid was a potential threat, who knows? Or maybe they are just Bad Cops who want to spend their days doing whatever it takes to put mentally disabled teens behind bars.

 

[BFew]

Found it.

https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sign.cgi/au/cases/vic/VSC/2021/696

(19 page pdf)

DPP (Cth) v Carrick (a pseudonym) [2021] VSC 696 (29 October 2021)

DPP (Cth) v Carrick (a pseudonym) [2021] VSC 696 (29 October 2021)​

Last Updated: 29 October 2021

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF VICTORIA

'CRIMINAL LAW — Bail — Director’s appeal against a grant of bail by the President of the Children’s Court — Respondent charged with terrorism offending — Bail granted with strict conditions in the Children’s Court — Existence of exceptional circumstances justifying the grant of bail conceded on appeal — Whether reasonably open for the President to find that risk of respondent’s release on bail acceptable — Seriousness of risk — Respondent assessed as suitable for Youth Justice supervised bail — Significant supports in place to ameliorate risk — Stringent and targeted conditions of bail imposed in Children’s Court — Capacity of conditions of bail to reduce risk to an acceptable level on the evidence — No miscarriage of discretion to grant bail by the President — Unpersuaded that a different order should have been made — Appeal dismissed — Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth) ss 102.3, 80.2C — Crimes Act 1914 (Cth) s 15AA — Bail Act 1977 (Vic) ss 3AAA, 3B, 4D, 4E, 18A.

1. This is an appeal by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions (“the Director”) pursuant to s 18A of the Bail Act 1977 (Vic) (‘the Bail Act’) against a grant of bail to Thomas Carrick (‘the respondent’)1 in the Melbourne Children’s Court by the President of that Court on 8 October 2021.2 The details of the order for bail that was made at that hearing are summarised later in these reasons.
2. The respondent is 14 years old and has been charged with two offences. The first charge concerns his alleged membership of a terrorist organisation contrary to s 102.3 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth) (‘the Code’).3 The second charge alleges advocating terrorism contrary to s 80.2C of the Code.4 The alleged offending began when the respondent was 13 years old and continued past his fourteenth birthday in September 2021. He was arrested and charged two days before the application for bail was heard in the Children’s Court
   ....
   
   50. The appeal by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions will be dismissed.

 

[Festerz]

Or maybe best to focus on the movements and actions of an intellectually challenged unintelligent person fixated on ISIS. I know very little about law enforcement methodology and legality so take this with a grain of salt but it is possibly a tricky, problematic situation for all involved. Parents contact police, intellectually disabled kid is showing tendencies towards dangerous/criminal behaviour, police don't act with enough force/deterrance/prevention... 5-10 years later he kills somebody... who wants that on their conscience? Maybe they explored a range of options and their hands were tied to a degree but they perceived the kid was a potential threat, who knows? Or maybe they are just Bad Cops who want to spend their days doing whatever it takes to put mentally disabled teens behind bars.

Agree it is a tricky situation and that terrorism is a subject that needs expert and careful handling by authorities. Like you I have zero understanding of the aims, motivations and methodologies in how the AFP and state agencies handle this.

But having read the partly redacted judgement of Magistrate Fleming I am just flabbergasted at how the Police have handled this.- particularly with regard to how their investigative processes seem to have derailed the therapeutic process that had already been established for him and how it was the AFP who had initiated the kid to focus on abhorrent terrorist attacks overseas.

Will cut and paste the sections of the judgement that I think are of most concern later today. But one line stands out above all others and that is:

"The evidence is that TC’s (pseudonym of the child) risk of committing an act of terrorism escalated" (as a direct result of the the involvement of the AFP)

Edit: I see BFew has linked to the judgement which will make that much easier for all of us discuss.

 

[BFew]

I would expect that one of the "authorities" responses to this case will probably be to try and change laws to make sure that something like this case can be even more suppressed and never make it into the public realm or be allowed to be debated, questioned, or investigated in Parliament in public.

If not under the term of the current Government, under the term of the next one.

 

[Redacted]

Some pretty s**t deradicalisation program they're running.

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[Bostonian]

No wonder I couldn't get an answer from them on if it was ok to bring in some used civil war bullets into the country.

Too busy setting kids up.

 

[jason_recliner]

Australian Federal Police says it would repeat undercover terror operation on autistic teenager​

AFP Deputy Commissioner Ian McCartney told Senate estimates he would sign off on the operation again.

"He had [a] long-standing fixation on ISIS. He had expressed a desire to carry out a violent act. He expressed the desire to carry out a school shooting. He was researching material on how to build a bomb, he was engaging with like-minded individuals," the deputy commissioner said.

"I would say in relation to that, there was a conservative three-and-a-half month effort by the Victoria Police Countering Violent Extremism team to deradicalise him. The decision that was made by the team, it wasn't being effective. He was becoming more and more radicalised.

"I think from our view, and again, we go to the damage control operation — if the same set of circumstances, I would sign that again."

Deputy Commissioner McCartney previously noted that the operational decisions were taken jointly by the AFP, Victoria Police and ASIO.

The AFP and Victoria Police acknowledged the court ruling criticising them for attempting to radicalise the boy.

'Chilling': AFP says it would repeat undercover terror operation on autistic teenager

 

[MSB ROYS]

It's so hard for these people to admit something when wrong.

 

[Carn The Berries]

It's so hard for these people to admit something when wrong.

They're a million miles away from that. Not only are they not saying they were wrong, they're doubling down and saying they would do it again, even after being castigated by a magistrate, and it was done publicly by both the Deputy Commissioner and the Lead Detective on the case.

How this isn't a bigger issue is totally beyond me.

 

[kickazz]

How this isn't a bigger issue is totally beyond me.

Because the teenager in question is ethnic.

 

[Redacted]

Meanwhile, just ignore the white neo nazi kids? Victorian inquiry into far-right extremism warned children are being radicalised
Missed opportunities to identify and commence deradicalisation initiatives seem to be the normal unfortunately

Brenton Tarrant

Brenton Tarrant is an Australian white supremacist who on March 15, 2019 stormed into two mosques and carried out the worst massacre in New Zealand’s history.“New Zealand PM: Dozens killed in 'terrorist' attack on mosques,” Al Jazeera, March 15, 2019...

www.counterextremism.com

The real question is does any of the talk turn into substance?
View attachment safeguarding-community-together-ct-strategy-22.pdf

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[jason_recliner]

They're a million miles away from that. Not only are they not saying they were wrong, they're doubling down and saying they would do it again, even after being castigated by a magistrate, and it was done publicly by both the Deputy Commissioner and the Lead Detective on the case.

How this isn't a bigger issue is totally beyond me.

I think a lot of people understand why the AFP persued this child.

 

[jason_recliner]

Meanwhile, just ignore the white neo nazi kids? Victorian inquiry into far-right extremism warned children are being radicalised
Missed opportunities to identify and commence deradicalisation initiatives seem to be the normal unfortunately

Brenton Tarrant

Brenton Tarrant is an Australian white supremacist who on March 15, 2019 stormed into two mosques and carried out the worst massacre in New Zealand’s history.“New Zealand PM: Dozens killed in 'terrorist' attack on mosques,” Al Jazeera, March 15, 2019...

www.counterextremism.com

The real question is does any of the talk turn into substance?
View attachment 1912038

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Who's ignoring racist extremist ideologies? It's literally one of the key focuses of ASIO/AFP.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I think a lot of people understand why the AFP persued this child.

Do those people also understand that, rather than helping with the pleas from the child's parents for support, the Australian Federal Police actually fed this child extremist material, then acted upon it? Do they also understand that the child in question has autism?

It's abhorrent behaviour with no justification whatsoever.

For the record, this child wasn't pursued, he was groomed (in an extremism sense) by our national police body.

 

[kickazz]

I think a lot of people understand why the AFP persued this child.

Why? - Yes most people understand the why.

It's the HOW that has massive question marks over it.

 

[jason_recliner]

Do those people also understand that, rather than helping with the pleas from the child's parents for support, the Australian Federal Police actually fed this child extremist material, then acted upon it? Do they also understand that the child in question has autism?

It's abhorrent behaviour with no justification whatsoever.

For the record, this child wasn't pursued, he was groomed (in an extremism sense) by our national police body.

According to the AFP, they tried other means and this was a last resort. I don't know if it's justified or not but I can imagine the reasonable outrage if the kid later killed somebody, his history was revealed, and it was revealed the AFP didn't do all they could to stop him. I think they were in an extremely difficult situation.