That sounds like your fantasy to me...
VicPol.
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That sounds like your fantasy to me...
Antz
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Would you care to elaborate?
Don't worry, you're spot on. Speaking to "Big" Ned was a bit interesting.
ZEV
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There are a lot more protocols and rules than just if they "feel".
Glad I was able to stimulate you.
Antz
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The authority to use force is derived from the law. Police should only use force that is reasonable, necessary, proportionate and appropriate to the circumstances. ... Individual police are accountable and responsible for their use of force and must be able to justify their actions at law
- Thread starter
- #356
Getting shot at is a direct result of the US lax gun laws.
Get guns off the streets, much like Australia, and less cops being shot at. Hopefully then less civilians being shot for no good reason by cops.
no arguments here.
- Thread starter
- #358
The one lasting legacy of John Howard.
Thanks ’ol bushy eyes!
Pedro
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As long as you can justify the level of force you use, self defence of others included. As Antz said, the use of force is set out in the Crimes Act. Section 462a. And it applies to all people, not just Police.
Antz
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If I was a police officer and an offender was attacking me or a member of the public with a knife, I would be justified in shooting the offender, as it is reasonable, necessary and proportionate force to the circumstance. So yes, if I "feel" it was necessary, I would shoot the offender.
JB1975
Brownlow Medallist
I think what Ned is trying to say is that these things aren't purely subjective.
The law has more objective measures, such as its fantastic creation of the 'reasonable person'.
If someone breaks into my home and I hit them once, and they flee, then it would likely be seen as the proportionate actions of any reasonable person in the circumstances.
If I chase that person and beat them down and fracture their eye socket and break their nose, then it wouldn't matter how fearful or shocked I was by the appearance of the intruder: it'd likely be seen as going too far beyond what that seemingly reasonably person would do.
In other words, it is more than 'feel' which determines its lawfulness, although we all acknowledge that feelings are very important.
Legal people might be able to clarify this with famed precision.
- Thread starter
- #362
VicPol command has to be reviewed, and changes made, over the decision last week to put rookie cops in the frontline of the protests, the refuse to send in the riot squad when these officer’s requested it.
The fact the protesters were able to inflict considerable physical damage on these officers demands answers and retribution at the very top of VicPol.
But a clear cut decision for VicPol command is the immediate dismissal of this officer.
www.abc.net.au
Suspension?
Ridiculous!
The actions of the acting sergeant in grabbing a person from behind, without warning, pinning his arms the slinging him to the tiled ground as disgusting.
Surely we train our police better than this.
The fact the protesters were able to inflict considerable physical damage on these officers demands answers and retribution at the very top of VicPol.
But a clear cut decision for VicPol command is the immediate dismissal of this officer.
Victorian police officer suspended over video of violent arrest at Flinders Street Station
Victoria Police suspends an acting sergeant and calls for witnesses as it investigates footage of a forceful arrest at Flinders Street Station which drew condemnation from lawyers last week.
www.abc.net.au
Ridiculous!
The actions of the acting sergeant in grabbing a person from behind, without warning, pinning his arms the slinging him to the tiled ground as disgusting.
Surely we train our police better than this.
- Thread starter
- #363
What type of world are we living in?
www.theage.com.au
Totally ridiculous that this officer has been charged with dangerous driving.
Yes he drove at up to 230 kmh, but full lights and sirens, on a dual lane freeway with no oncoming traffic in close proximity.
And responding to the possible serious injury of a fellow officer.
The powers that be have been brainwashed by their own publicity that speed is always dangerous. Simply untrue and in this case, a highly serviced and modern, modified vehicle, driven by a highly trained holder of a Gold Class license, the situation at that speed couldn’t have been safer.
If the powers that be considered the incident unsafe they could have withdrawn his Gold Licence and reduced his on road activities.
To charge and publicly shame him would be causing considerable angst in the rank and file. As it should.
Policeman charged after driving 230km/h to reach injured officer
A police officer has been charged with reckless conduct endangering life for speeding to a job while on duty. He plans to contest the charges.
Yes he drove at up to 230 kmh, but full lights and sirens, on a dual lane freeway with no oncoming traffic in close proximity.
And responding to the possible serious injury of a fellow officer.
The powers that be have been brainwashed by their own publicity that speed is always dangerous. Simply untrue and in this case, a highly serviced and modern, modified vehicle, driven by a highly trained holder of a Gold Class license, the situation at that speed couldn’t have been safer.
If the powers that be considered the incident unsafe they could have withdrawn his Gold Licence and reduced his on road activities.
To charge and publicly shame him would be causing considerable angst in the rank and file. As it should.
- Thread starter
- #364
Once again the judiciary have let down community expectations.
This scum has used his supposed mental disability to fool the judiciary into a very, very light sentence.
For a person who apparently isn’t all there, he was there enough to have a walk-talkie and to be called in to do what he did when the officers attempted to enforce the law.
To me that shows foresight and more than enough mental capability to take responsibility for your actions.
www.abc.net.au
The Government clearly need to appeal this sentence.
This scum has used his supposed mental disability to fool the judiciary into a very, very light sentence.
For a person who apparently isn’t all there, he was there enough to have a walk-talkie and to be called in to do what he did when the officers attempted to enforce the law.
To me that shows foresight and more than enough mental capability to take responsibility for your actions.
COVID conspiracy theorist who believes he is a king twice over jailed for brutal assault on police
Steven John Cleary, 50, will spend time behind bars for the vicious attack, which was caught on body camera. The "eruption of violence" occurred after police asked a teenager to put a mask on.
www.abc.net.au
The Government clearly need to appeal this sentence.
- Thread starter
- #366
Absolutely.
But….
Officer fronts court after alleged assault during anti-lockdown protest
A Victoria Police officer accused of sling tackling a man to the ground during an anti-lockdown protest has...
www.9news.com.au
You are absolutely correct in your comments about the Queensland members who gave their lives on a routine policing action. (Even though it has nothing to do with VicPol. You are welcome to start a new thread on QldPol)
But these sacrifices do not excuse the actions of the minority of VicPol members. Such as linked above.
And, you know, things like this;
'He just happened to show up': Jane didn't know how a police officer found her, until she got a call from a taskforce
The ABC has spoken to three women who say Victoria Police officers accessed the LEAP database to stalk, harass or pursue relationships with them. Lawyers fear these are not isolated incidents.
www.abc.net.au
Strip-searching of First Nations children by Victoria police ‘state-sanctioned violence’, inquiry hears
Indigenous children routinely subjected to racist slurs and excessive force, including use of stun guns, Yoorrook Justice Commission told
Am I anti VicPol?
No. Never.
Am I in favour of holding each and every police officer to a higher standard.
Yea. Always.
We need to respect our police. We need to believe that we will get a fair hearing when interacting with officers.
We don’t need this;
Body-worn camera footage at odds with shooting officer’s claim of self-defence
For the police, it was a clear-cut case of self-defence. But two years after a shovel-wielding man was shot in Geelong, cracks have appeared in their story that raise questions about who might have actually been acting to protect themselves that night: the rookie officer or the homeowner.
Officer who admitted to sexually assaulting colleague was not sacked or charged
A senior constable who admitted to sexually assaulting a female colleague at their Sunshine station was not sacked and has never been criminally charged. The case is now before the corruption watchdog and civil court.
Greater Victoria police officers disciplined for using Taser as party trick, losing badge
Among the things that police officers were reprimanded for: Use of a Taser as a party trick, a poor investigation of intimate partner violence, using a dating app while conducting surveillance and losing a police badge.
www.timescolonist.com
Victoria police apparently breached internal guidelines regarding complaints made by Danielle Laidley
Force fails to follow own policy by not completing investigations into former AFL great’s complaints on time or notifying when finalised
You are welcome, Kappa, to have your 36 letter opinion. But even you might understand that there needs to be better oversight of our local enforcers.
An independent panel might be a start. Something the police Union fight to the bitter end.
But police investigating police doesn’t cut it.
Happy that a lot of these complaints end up in court. Not happy that the courts treat serving and ex officers as “protected”, despite the serious crime of rejecting their sworn oaths.
The sentences given to ex members are a joke.
I will always hold members of VicPol to the highest of standards.
And I will also mourn and respect the deaths of any police member who gives the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of our way of life.
Even if they are outside our state,
Absolutely.
But….
Officer fronts court after alleged assault during anti-lockdown protest
A Victoria Police officer accused of sling tackling a man to the ground during an anti-lockdown protest has...
You are absolutely correct in your comments about the Queensland members who gave their lives on a routine policing action. (Even though it has nothing to do with VicPol. You are welcome to start a new thread on QldPol)
But these sacrifices do not excuse the actions of the minority of VicPol members. Such as linked above.
And, you know, things like this;
'He just happened to show up': Jane didn't know how a police officer found her, until she got a call from a taskforce
The ABC has spoken to three women who say Victoria Police officers accessed the LEAP database to stalk, harass or pursue relationships with them. Lawyers fear these are not isolated incidents.
Strip-searching of First Nations children by Victoria police ‘state-sanctioned violence’, inquiry hears
Indigenous children routinely subjected to racist slurs and excessive force, including use of stun guns, Yoorrook Justice Commission toldwww.theguardian.com
Am I anti VicPol?
No. Never.
Am I in favour of holding each and every police officer to a higher standard.
Yea. Always.
We need to respect our police. We need to believe that we will get a fair hearing when interacting with officers.
We don’t need this;
Body-worn camera footage at odds with shooting officer’s claim of self-defence
For the police, it was a clear-cut case of self-defence. But two years after a shovel-wielding man was shot in Geelong, cracks have appeared in their story that raise questions about who might have actually been acting to protect themselves that night: the rookie officer or the homeowner.
Officer who admitted to sexually assaulting colleague was not sacked or charged
A senior constable who admitted to sexually assaulting a female colleague at their Sunshine station was not sacked and has never been criminally charged. The case is now before the corruption watchdog and civil court.
Greater Victoria police officers disciplined for using Taser as party trick, losing badge
Among the things that police officers were reprimanded for: Use of a Taser as a party trick, a poor investigation of intimate partner violence, using a dating app while conducting surveillance and losing a police badge.
Victoria police apparently breached internal guidelines regarding complaints made by Danielle Laidley
Force fails to follow own policy by not completing investigations into former AFL great’s complaints on time or notifying when finalised
You are welcome, Kappa, to have your 36 letter opinion. But even you might understand that there needs to be better oversight of our local enforcers.
An independent panel might be a start. Something the police Union fight to the bitter end.
But police investigating police doesn’t cut it.
Happy that a lot of these complaints end up in court. Not happy that the courts treat serving and ex officers as “protected”, despite the serious crime of rejecting their sworn oaths.
The sentences given to ex members are a joke.
I will always hold members of VicPol to the highest of standards.
And I will also mourn and respect the deaths of any police member who gives the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of our way of life.
Even if they are outside our state,
The sins of VicPol should not be hidden by considering other States in this thread.
Minimising scrutiny is to deny what is happening to Victorians.
Rhyys
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What type of world are we living in?
Totally ridiculous that this officer has been charged with dangerous driving.Policeman charged after driving 230km/h to reach injured officer
A police officer has been charged with reckless conduct endangering life for speeding to a job while on duty. He plans to contest the charges.
Yes he drove at up to 230 kmh, but full lights and sirens, on a dual lane freeway with no oncoming traffic in close proximity.
And responding to the possible serious injury of a fellow officer.
The powers that be have been brainwashed by their own publicity that speed is always dangerous. Simply untrue and in this case, a highly serviced and modern, modified vehicle, driven by a highly trained holder of a Gold Class license, the situation at that speed couldn’t have been safer.
If the powers that be considered the incident unsafe they could have withdrawn his Gold Licence and reduced his on road activities.
To charge and publicly shame him would be causing considerable angst in the rank and file. As it should.
Rushed to the scene because a terrible terrible catastrophic injury (bruising)
Give me a break, ridiculous driving that speed got such an incident. Charged as he should be, probably thought it was a once in a lifetime opportunity that he would be exempt from repercussions. Glad he got served.
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A few years ago i moved out into country Victoria, into a very small town where we bought my in laws property. I’m technically a local because the other half was born and bred out here. We moved out here after my step son was violently murdered in 2016 and circumstances meant we could move. The move was all about getting hubby closer to his family, and 5 years after we moved I can say that worked.
Anyway 12 months after we moved my best friend of 35 years came up to see us, our reaction was “this will go one way or the other”. Sadly it went the other way as she mixed prescription drugs with recreational drugs, as she got louder and more obnoxious I took her legal drugs and called nurse on call ….. who informed me the 5 drugs shouldn’t be taken together let alone with meth and weed.
I callEd the ambulance psych team and being where we are it was going to take up to 2 hours. The local cop(1 cop town) was great and kept calling me to update me on the progress. I called the neighbours so they didn’t stress when the cop and ambo turned up.….. small town so everyone knew when they turned up.
Long story short she went into the nearest town with the cop as she refused any medical intervention and was screaming blue murder at me. On the 45 minute drive she told the cop I was growing a crop and had weapons buried …….
Fast forward 6 weeks and guess whose property was raided.
6 cops from Portland 2 hours away and our local cop tagged along. I was wearing just a shower coat as I was fresh out the shower so when I went to get dressed a police woman followed me ……. Now those who remember me and my history might laugh at what I did next now Vicpol have my/our history in their leap system. So I removed my robe, grabbed some knickers and bent over giving the officer a full eyefull, then I turned around and gave her more of a show As I put a top on.
Anyway I’d set the iPad up to film the cops in the main living area which it turns out they weren’t meant to be inside the house or cars anyway According to the scribble on the search warrant. I didn’t publish that footage.
So as I chatted to the Sarg in charge of the raid out the back of my place I mentioned my old mate and how she feed our local cop a load of lies and he’s obviously put in his report leading to this raid.
I took a photo of the cops out the back of my place and posted that to my Police Locations Facebook group with over 200,000 members under the headline, “guess who just got raided”. Apparently that little post created a stir at Vicpol HQ.
I am told heaps of information about what cops have done or worse haven’t bothered to do. It’s a club, they protect each other and cover up for each other.
Until that culture changes, nothing will.
Anyway 12 months after we moved my best friend of 35 years came up to see us, our reaction was “this will go one way or the other”. Sadly it went the other way as she mixed prescription drugs with recreational drugs, as she got louder and more obnoxious I took her legal drugs and called nurse on call ….. who informed me the 5 drugs shouldn’t be taken together let alone with meth and weed.
I callEd the ambulance psych team and being where we are it was going to take up to 2 hours. The local cop(1 cop town) was great and kept calling me to update me on the progress. I called the neighbours so they didn’t stress when the cop and ambo turned up.….. small town so everyone knew when they turned up.
Long story short she went into the nearest town with the cop as she refused any medical intervention and was screaming blue murder at me. On the 45 minute drive she told the cop I was growing a crop and had weapons buried …….
Fast forward 6 weeks and guess whose property was raided.
6 cops from Portland 2 hours away and our local cop tagged along. I was wearing just a shower coat as I was fresh out the shower so when I went to get dressed a police woman followed me ……. Now those who remember me and my history might laugh at what I did next now Vicpol have my/our history in their leap system. So I removed my robe, grabbed some knickers and bent over giving the officer a full eyefull, then I turned around and gave her more of a show As I put a top on.
Anyway I’d set the iPad up to film the cops in the main living area which it turns out they weren’t meant to be inside the house or cars anyway According to the scribble on the search warrant. I didn’t publish that footage.
So as I chatted to the Sarg in charge of the raid out the back of my place I mentioned my old mate and how she feed our local cop a load of lies and he’s obviously put in his report leading to this raid.
I took a photo of the cops out the back of my place and posted that to my Police Locations Facebook group with over 200,000 members under the headline, “guess who just got raided”. Apparently that little post created a stir at Vicpol HQ.
I am told heaps of information about what cops have done or worse haven’t bothered to do. It’s a club, they protect each other and cover up for each other.
Until that culture changes, nothing will.
Attachments
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- #370
They look very pleased with themselves in that pic Tess.
Good to see you’ve come out the other side of all the crap you had to endure.
Stay safe.
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thanks B_W, I’m even a step grandma lol
Apart from losing the young fella like we did, life’s good.
Have you spoken to the local cop ?
- Aug 13, 2002
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Yes we have had many discussions since, he’s basically a good bloke with misguided loyalties.
I think you are conveniently overlooking the welfare check element, the mental disability and the pain killer withdrawal the pensioner was undergoing. I expect more from police as I would from teachers in terms of their ability to deal calmly with violence, particularly when they heavily outnumber the victim and have already over powered him.
- Thread starter
- #375
Yesssss!
www.theage.com.au
Should never have been charged.
Read down to the detail of this case and you can see why this officer was persecuted by his superiors. Never point out the injustice of simply fulfilling a “quota” to your superiors, because they will take any opportunity to screw you.
The simple fact that officers without a gold unrestricted license, also sped to the scene and broke the speed limit that their licence allowed, but were not charged, proves it.
Policeman cleared of driving dangerously at 200km/h to help colleague
A magistrate has cleared a highway patrol officer of a charge of dangerous driving after he sped along the Hume Freeway to help a colleague involved in a crash. The officer is now considering legal action against Victoria Police.
Should never have been charged.
Read down to the detail of this case and you can see why this officer was persecuted by his superiors. Never point out the injustice of simply fulfilling a “quota” to your superiors, because they will take any opportunity to screw you.
The simple fact that officers without a gold unrestricted license, also sped to the scene and broke the speed limit that their licence allowed, but were not charged, proves it.
