Roast 6 from 17. Despite Momentum We are REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY s**t - Warning includes club criticisms

[1970crow]

The celebration of those who try hard but have limited ability makes us feel like a Mickey mouse club.

the 40 foot VB banner that hung over the club front doors tells us everything we need to know.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I hate the Twitter talk of "Our young guys are tired, you can't blame the coaches for that" as if the coaches have zero power to rest anyone and we didn't have WC before the bye where we could have given guys like Pedlar, Michallaney, Soligo etc two weeks off instead of one.

And the "the kids just need more time to develop as midfielders" like we're currently trying to develop any midfielders with all the actual midfielders we've drafted in Schoenberg, Berry and Hately spending all year in the SANFL.

Hately consistently in the best 3 players in the SANFL EVERY WEEK and doesn't get a sniff. I understand Crouch because of the way he plays, and card has been stamped.
Schoenberg and Berry in the same boat as Hately. Perform every week in the SANFL. Yet yesterday McAdam played with no SANFL form. Murphy was disappointing.

 

[Jirkago75]

Really irritated with recruiters, our midfielders are all the same with no point of difference. All the same speed and height must make us the easiest team to play against. Can we try and pick different players to put in our midfield!!! Some one needs to take responsibility for the s**t we are in


Why did we recruit Brown after we had Hately, crouch and Berry not getting a shot as an inside midfielder, We have Laird in the side. We have 4 players for one position??? We need to trade out 6 or 7 players and get some draft capital in the next 2 drafts before we make an impact in the finals
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[BunjiMac]

I hate the Twitter talk of "Our young guys are tired, you can't blame the coaches for that" as if the coaches have zero power to rest anyone and we didn't have WC before the bye where we could have given guys like Pedlar, Michallaney, Soligo etc two weeks off instead of one.

And the "the kids just need more time to develop as midfielders" like we're currently trying to develop any midfielders with all the actual midfielders we've drafted in Schoenberg, Berry and Hately spending all year in the SANFL.

This is not unusual as I encounter this all the time in the workplace. It's usually those who are more experienced that try to hold the up and coming talent down because they can't understand how a different generation could learn things quicker or differently to them.

The reality it's probably a balance of giving the young people the opportunities whilst also giving them time to learn. They ley is to understand that everyone is different and where people are thriving you should give them more opportunities, not less.

Our balance is completely wrong at the moment.

 

[maxlilly]

It's really hard to see what is worse with the club,
The recruiting over the last ten years or player development.
I think Chayce is the only player that has improved this year along with Murray

 

[NSolis]

It's really hard to see what is worse with the club,
The recruiting over the last ten years or player development.
I think Chayce is the only player that has improved this year along with Murray

Okay this is just silly. Lots of our players have improved this year, mostly because a lot of our regular selections are 2nd/3rd year players who are just developing the ability to impact games at AFL level. The downside is not that we have nobody who has improved but that we have players who should have been primed to take the next step the way Jones has who haven't, like Fogarty (who has been okay but down from the second half of last year) and guys who aren't in the first 22 like Schoenberg and Berry.

Players on our list having career best years who have clearly improved from 2022 include:
Thilthorpe
Dawson
Murphy
Soligo
Rachele
Jones
Murray
Hinge

Plus you could include Rankine, who is much improved though obviously it's compared to when he was not on our list, and some players like Pedlar and Worrell who hadn't played much before this year to establish a baseline but have shown themselves to be AFL quality.

 

[maxlilly]

Okay this is just silly. Lots of our players have improved this year, mostly because a lot of our regular selections are 2nd/3rd year players who are just developing the ability to impact games at AFL level. The downside is not that we have nobody who has improved but that we have players who should have been primed to take the next step the way Jones has who haven't, like Fogarty (who has been okay but down from the second half of last year) and guys who aren't in the first 22 like Schoenberg and Berry.

Players on our list having career best years who have clearly improved from 2022 include:
Thilthorpe
Dawson
Murphy
Soligo
Rachele
Jones
Murray
Hinge

Plus you could include Rankine, who is much improved though obviously it's compared to when he was not on our list, and some players like Pedlar and Worrell who hadn't played much before this year to establish a baseline but have shown themselves to be AFL quality.

I'm not sure where you are seeing Thilthorpe clearly inproving ?
Dawson wasn't recruited or developed by the Crows
Everyone is wanting Murphy dropped after nearly 100 games and 30 goals
Soligo has gone backwards the last 6 weeks
Rachele not doing much
I said Jones looked like the clear improver for the year along with Murray
Hinge and Worrell have been good and has been a big improver.
But what about Berry, Shoenberg, Himmelberg, Hately, Cook, Nankervis, Parnell, Newchurch, Gollant Hamill etc all languishing in the 2's
Not one guy in the 2's has developed enough to get a game in the A's all year
McHenry, Sholl ?

 

[NSolis]

Yep as I said, the downside is the players who are not in the first 22 who have not improved. Totally agree that some of those players, particularly Berry and Schoenberg, you'd have hoped would play more games/have a bigger impact this year - that's where the club is struggling. I don't agree about the young players who are actually being selected though, those guys are improving.

People wanting Murphy dropped is neither here nor there. This is easily his best year, and that can be true even if you think he's not an AFL standard player. He's also not a small forward (not any more anyway) and you can't judge him exclusively on goals, have a look at his heatmaps and where he gets the ball. This would be like judging Rachele purely on goals, for example.

Soligo and Rachele are significantly improved this year - have a look at their records compared to their first season. Both are second year AFL players who are struggling to run out the year, but that was also true last season. Thilthorpe's improvement is more modest but he's also improved, is making it through more games and is more consistent than previous years. Having more impact around the ground than previous years. You can see the improvements in consistency with their stat lines game to game, as well as just watching them play. Less instances of them having a big game and then doing nothing for a month, that sort of thing.

Last year Rachele played 13 games, averaged 11 disposals and kicked 17 goals. This year he's played every game, is averaging 16 disposals and is also up significantly in marks, tackles and clearances, has played more midfield time and has run out games better. He's kicked fewer goals per game but a lot of that is down to some poor set shot kicking - overall he's definitely impacting games more. The same basic stuff is true of Soligo and Thilthorpe. Some issues, particularly later in the season, but improved over last year and still developing the physical attributes to consistently contribute at AFL level. These guys will be fine, they aren't regressing.

Seems like we agree about the others.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Hately consistently in the best 3 players in the SANFL EVERY WEEK and doesn't get a sniff. I understand Crouch because of the way he plays, and card has been stamped.
Schoenberg and Berry in the same boat as Hately. Perform every week in the SANFL. Yet yesterday McAdam played with no SANFL form. Murphy was disappointing.

Hately is garbage.. his card has been stamped too.

mcadam “had no form”.. sorry.. wrong again. He kicked three last week and was in everything.

our forwards weren’t the problem last night.. as soon as people come to terms with the fact that laird, sloane and keays are sh*t and sholl and murphy are complete and utter liabilities.. and Smith isnt far behind this group.. the better.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Hately is garbage.. his card has been stamped too.

mcadam “had no form”.. sorry.. wrong again. He kicked three last week and was in everything.

our forwards weren’t the problem last night.. as soon as people come to terms with the fact that laird, sloane and keays are sh*t and sholl and murphy are complete and utter liabilities.. and Smith isnt far behind this group.. the better.

So McAdam isn't a forward, Rankine isn't a forward, Fog isn't a forward, RT is a forward. Murphy and Rash were only poor in midfield. Got it.

 

[1970crow]

It's really hard to see what is worse with the club,
The recruiting over the last ten years or player development.
I think Chayce is the only player that has improved this year along with Murray

Think how low we pushed him. He was getting sub teens possessions as an SANFL mid despite a promising first year.

 

[1970crow]

Yep as I said, the downside is the players who are not in the first 22 who have not improved. Totally agree that some of those players, particularly Berry and Schoenberg, you'd have hoped would play more games/have a bigger impact this year - that's where the club is struggling. I don't agree about the young players who are actually being selected though, those guys are improving.

People wanting Murphy dropped is neither here nor there. This is easily his best year, and that can be true even if you think he's not an AFL standard player. He's also not a small forward (not any more anyway) and you can't judge him exclusively on goals, have a look at his heatmaps and where he gets the ball. This would be like judging Rachele purely on goals, for example.

Soligo and Rachele are significantly improved this year - have a look at their records compared to their first season. Both are second year AFL players who are struggling to run out the year, but that was also true last season. Thilthorpe's improvement is more modest but he's also improved, is making it through more games and is more consistent than previous years. Having more impact around the ground than previous years. You can see the improvements in consistency with their stat lines game to game, as well as just watching them play. Less instances of them having a big game and then doing nothing for a month, that sort of thing.

Last year Rachele played 13 games, averaged 11 disposals and kicked 17 goals. This year he's played every game, is averaging 16 disposals and is also up significantly in marks, tackles and clearances, has played more midfield time and has run out games better. He's kicked fewer goals per game but a lot of that is down to some poor set shot kicking - overall he's definitely impacting games more. The same basic stuff is true of Soligo and Thilthorpe. Some issues, particularly later in the season, but improved over last year and still developing the physical attributes to consistently contribute at AFL level. These guys will be fine, they aren't regressing.

Seems like we agree about the others.

Sog is in the 2s and apart from continuity imperative, Rach right behind him.

 

[1970crow]

I'm not sure where you are seeing Thilthorpe clearly inproving ?
Dawson wasn't recruited or developed by the Crows
Everyone is wanting Murphy dropped after nearly 100 games and 30 goals
Soligo has gone backwards the last 6 weeks
Rachele not doing much
I said Jones looked like the clear improver for the year along with Murray
Hinge and Worrell have been good and has been a big improver.
But what about Berry, Shoenberg, Himmelberg, Hately, Cook, Nankervis, Parnell, Newchurch, Gollant Hamill etc all languishing in the 2's
Not one guy in the 2's has developed enough to get a game in the A's all year
McHenry, Sholl ?

And worse, look at the players they can’t get past.

 

[1970crow]

Hately is garbage.. his card has been stamped too.

mcadam “had no form”.. sorry.. wrong again. He kicked three last week and was in everything.

our forwards weren’t the problem last night.. as soon as people come to terms with the fact that laird, sloane and keays are sh*t and sholl and murphy are complete and utter liabilities.. and Smith isnt far behind this group.. the better.

Hately is better than 50% of the current Nix/VB midfield quartet. And it’s not even close.

 

[MRB37]

Yep as I said, the downside is the players who are not in the first 22 who have not improved. Totally agree that some of those players, particularly Berry and Schoenberg, you'd have hoped would play more games/have a bigger impact this year - that's where the club is struggling. I don't agree about the young players who are actually being selected though, those guys are improving.

People wanting Murphy dropped is neither here nor there. This is easily his best year, and that can be true even if you think he's not an AFL standard player. He's also not a small forward (not any more anyway) and you can't judge him exclusively on goals, have a look at his heatmaps and where he gets the ball. This would be like judging Rachele purely on goals, for example.

Soligo and Rachele are significantly improved this year - have a look at their records compared to their first season. Both are second year AFL players who are struggling to run out the year, but that was also true last season. Thilthorpe's improvement is more modest but he's also improved, is making it through more games and is more consistent than previous years. Having more impact around the ground than previous years. You can see the improvements in consistency with their stat lines game to game, as well as just watching them play. Less instances of them having a big game and then doing nothing for a month, that sort of thing.

Last year Rachele played 13 games, averaged 11 disposals and kicked 17 goals. This year he's played every game, is averaging 16 disposals and is also up significantly in marks, tackles and clearances, has played more midfield time and has run out games better. He's kicked fewer goals per game but a lot of that is down to some poor set shot kicking - overall he's definitely impacting games more. The same basic stuff is true of Soligo and Thilthorpe. Some issues, particularly later in the season, but improved over last year and still developing the physical attributes to consistently contribute at AFL level. These guys will be fine, they aren't regressing.

Seems like we agree about the others.

Murphy is just another symptom of a dysfunctional midfield as we use him as an extra at the contest because the 3 blokes we throw in there can't get it done by themselves, so now we just try to overwhelm with numbers. And he does win some, but generally his disposal is average at best and not a lot comes from them.

Even then we then still lose more than we win at stoppages and cause we throw everyone in it allows easy ball to the opposition outside mids.

 

[rabidcrow]

I'm not sure where you are seeing Thilthorpe clearly inproving ?
Dawson wasn't recruited or developed by the Crows
Everyone is wanting Murphy dropped after nearly 100 games and 30 goals
Soligo has gone backwards the last 6 weeks
Rachele not doing much
I said Jones looked like the clear improver for the year along with Murray
Hinge and Worrell have been good and has been a big improver.
But what about Berry, Shoenberg, Himmelberg, Hately, Cook, Nankervis, Parnell, Newchurch, Gollant Hamill etc all languishing in the 2's
Not one guy in the 2's has developed enough to get a game in the A's all year
McHenry, Sholl ?

Thilthorpe is 9th in the comp for contested marks and most in front of him have played 2 more games. He has taken more contested marks than Hawkins, English,Jackson, JUH etc

That’s a big step up to consistently do that

Max obviously makes the list as an improvement to the team - has developed quickly

There would be 10 or so in the main te that have improved significantly or added significantly to the team.

You can’t just base a season off a couple of terrible weeks

Having said that - I agree there are some more players that need opportunity in the SANFL to see what they have got. You would have to think Harry is back this week and would be nice to see either Dowling or Nank get a run

It seemed at the game Sloane was off for a lot of the last quarter - couldn’t keep up? Would be good to see him have a spell along with Murphy, Sholl and obviously Rach a chance to be suspended anyway




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[1970crow]

Murphy is just another symptom of a dysfunctional midfield as we use him as an extra at the contest because the 3 blokes we throw in there can't get it done by themselves, so now we just try to overwhelm with numbers. And he does win some, but generally his disposal is average at best and not a lot comes from them.

Even then we then still lose more than we win at stoppages and cause we throw everyone in it allows easy ball to the opposition outside mids.

Plus when we win, our quality going forward is dismal compared to the average of our oppo.

 

[NSolis]

Sog is in the 2s and apart from continuity imperative, Rach right behind him.

Even if this were the case (Soligo was rested, didn't play in the 2s) both of them played SANFL last year too. The fact that they were rested or left out at times wouldn't mean they hadn't improved from last year.

 

[NSolis]

Murphy is just another symptom of a dysfunctional midfield as we use him as an extra at the contest because the 3 blokes we throw in there can't get it done by themselves, so now we just try to overwhelm with numbers. And he does win some, but generally his disposal is average at best and not a lot comes from them.

Even then we then still lose more than we win at stoppages and cause we throw everyone in it allows easy ball to the opposition outside mids.

Okay. My point is just that Murphy doesn't play as a small forward. Most of his possessions are on the flanks and through the middle of the ground, and he's 2nd at the club for inside 50s despite not being a massive possession winner. That's his typical role, pressuring across half forward and delivering to the forward line, sometimes an extra midfielder. People are welcome to think he's crap at that role.

 

[1970crow]

Thilthorpe is 9th in the comp for contested marks and most in front of him have played 2 more games. He has taken more contested marks than Hawkins, English,Jackson, JUH etc

That’s a big step up to consistently do that

Max obviously makes the list as an improvement to the team - has developed quickly

There would be 10 or so in the main te that have improved significantly or added significantly to the team.

You can’t just base a season off a couple of terrible weeks

Having said that - I agree there are some more players that need opportunity in the SANFL to see what they have got. You would have to think Harry is back this week and would be nice to see either Dowling or Nank get a run

It seemed at the game Sloane was off for a lot of the last quarter - couldn’t keep up? Would be good to see him have a spell along with Murphy, Sholl and obviously Rach a chance to be suspended anyway




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Sloane played about 60% TOG. Previous weeks (prior to last), he rolls 50% first half and then increases in the second half to end up around the 70% mark. But because we’re veneer over substance, we just had to have him at the opening bounce and making out he’s an important cog in our machine. Despite Sloane himself saying he needs the first half to warm up.

Like it or not, we’re just a crap club from the top down and it won’t change until we can a-hole the entire board.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

There were genuinely better players running around for Glenelg today than at least half a dozen of ours tonight. The investment of games into players that have no stand out attributes other than effort is appalling. Effort is a requisite for AFL footy, not an attribute. You look at guys like Worrell, Max, Peds etc. and its immediately apparent that what they have in there bag of tricks is capable of breaking/winning games. Its clear that we are past the rebuilding stage now and we've still got these total liabilities stealing games from far more talented players. This will come back to bite us.

This is my major gripe and probably everyone on this board is sick of me reiterating it - but how the duck can we have played the lowest amount of players this season in a rebuild???

why have we not given game time to younger players to give them a taste and to show their skills?

why even bother going to the draft if we are already set in our best 22?

why do we continue to gift games to Murphy, McHenry and add to that our favourite son Rory?

why continue to name young guys as emergencies but have no intention to play them? Is that their token taste of AFL?

we have had some good moments in 2023 but geez we have made huge mistakes

 

[WheresGroomgone]

Okay this is just silly. Lots of our players have improved this year, mostly because a lot of our regular selections are 2nd/3rd year players who are just developing the ability to impact games at AFL level. The downside is not that we have nobody who has improved but that we have players who should have been primed to take the next step the way Jones has who haven't, like Fogarty (who has been okay but down from the second half of last year) and guys who aren't in the first 22 like Schoenberg and Berry.

Players on our list having career best years who have clearly improved from 2022 include:
Thilthorpe
Dawson
Murphy
Soligo
Rachele
Jones
Murray
Hinge

Plus you could include Rankine, who is much improved though obviously it's compared to when he was not on our list, and some players like Pedlar and Worrell who hadn't played much before this year to establish a baseline but have shown themselves to be AFL quality.

honestly this is flawed;

career best years due to our development?

Dawson had no development from AFC


Murray and Hinge yes agree - had great years as has Worrell

Rachelle shown less than his debut year
Soligo has plateaued and has just been dropped
‘Murphy has had absolute stinkers in 23 and should have been dropped numerous times
Thilthorpe been somewhat frustrating with his poor games and stalling of coming on

 

[NSolis]

honestly this is flawed;

career best years due to our development?

Dawson had no development from AFC


Murray and Hinge yes agree - had great years as has Worrell

Rachelle shown less than his debut year
Soligo has plateaued and has just been dropped
‘Murphy has had absolute stinkers in 23 and should have been dropped numerous times
Thilthorpe been somewhat frustrating with his poor games and stalling of coming on

I feel like you are remembering Rachele's debut year with seriously rose coloured glasses, or underestimating this year, or both. He started exceptionally well obviously. First 5 games were good, kicked 12 goals and averaged 15 disposals. From round 6 on he played another 8 games in which he never kicked more than 1 goal and never got more than 12 possessions. In other words, he faded hard due to a mix of fatigue, injury and form. Didn't play at all after round 16. His worst game this year is about as good as his best game last year after those first 5 rounds.

Have a look for yourself: Josh Rachele of the Adelaide Crows AFL Games Played Stats
and 2023: Josh Rachele of the Adelaide Crows AFL Games Played Stats

This year he's had good games as a small forward, had some midfield time, and as late as round 16 went into the midfield against North and had a 23 disposal, 7 tackle, 5 clearance game. Has had some issues kicking for goal and is fading at this point (and will probably be suspended) but he's been much better than 2022, as you'd expect for a 20 year old. He's absolutely improving. As with Murphy this is a completely separate question from whether he is playing well, or improving fast enough, or being used correctly, or whether he should be selected, or whatever. My point is simply that his 2023 has been better than his 2022.

We've had far more than two players who have had career best years, it's the majority of the sub-25 year old players who have actually been selected. This isn't surprising when you consider that those players are young (so each year are likely to improve with experience and physical development) and also that the team has improved notably from last year in terms of results. I'm not making any claims about the success of 'our development', that's pretty hard to judge. But you can easily see who has had a career best year.

 

[Jirkago75]

Thilthorpe is 9th in the comp for contested marks and most in front of him have played 2 more games. He has taken more contested marks than Hawkins, English,Jackson, JUH etc

That’s a big step up to consistently do that

Max obviously makes the list as an improvement to the team - has developed quickly

There would be 10 or so in the main te that have improved significantly or added significantly to the team.

You can’t just base a season off a couple of terrible weeks

Having said that - I agree there are some more players that need opportunity in the SANFL to see what they have got. You would have to think Harry is back this week and would be nice to see either Dowling or Nank get a run

It seemed at the game Sloane was off for a lot of the last quarter - couldn’t keep up? Would be good to see him have a spell along with Murphy, Sholl and obviously Rach a chance to be suspended anyway




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The other part of the problem is that they select Shoey and then play him out of position and then instantly dropped. Now finals is a pipe dream, play Shoey in the midfield for 3 games and see what he can do. I agree with bearded Clam that Hately is s**t but give him a go as to see what he has before we delist him.

If we play these young guys in form from the SANFL, give them the opportunity in there best position and we will find out if we will keep them or trade them. It’s a good year to cut the list deep and bring in new blood. I’d like 10 changes and get rid of all rookie list players . We need chance and now


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[Crowboto]

Keays kicking the ball out on the full instead of lacing out one of our forwards in a pivotal moment of the final quarter. This one passage of play which essentially cost us any chance of victory to me sums up the AFC. Any Joe Blow that has witnessed some of his set shot goal kicking knows he is mind ****ed but no let's back him in as best 22. These guys cost you games when you can least afford it. Brisbane knew it. Unfortunately we don't.