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Nah, you don’t win premierships without goal kicking threats.
West Coast worst list in the AFL
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Carbine Chaos
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Amiss is going to be a gun, I can see him being a very consistent contributor this season. Still an area for them to work on though.
kane249
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You look at the Demons in 2021 since they were mentioned earlier, Fritsch kicked 59 that year.
Pickett contributed 40, McDonald 33, Petracca 29, Brown 25
Significantly their rucks Gawn and Jackson both kicked 16 that year also
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How would that stat sit alongside the supply side though? I wonder where they sit on the average inside 50 count.
Bloke has played three games and kicked 4 goals. 2 against North and 2 against Bulldogs, both who had some of the worst tall defenders in the league.
I like the look of him and he has great potential, but it is way too early for him to lead the forward line. Most young talls need several years to get their bodies strong enough to be the leader. If you rush it there is a high risk of injury (Curnow, Daniher, even Allen and we tried to be gentle with him).
RookiePick
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Gently threw him into the ruck, if memory serves.
He was eased into it for a number of years, being rested for finals in 2019. However, I agree that playing ruck for so long was a poor idea.
Deplorable trumpster
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When people say "the worst list" what criteria is that judged on?
Does that mean the most likely to win the spoon this year, or the likeliest to have the worst cumulative results over the next 5 years? Because those are two very different things.
You can argue that North for example are more likely to win the spoon this year than us but given that they have been down the bottom racking up draft picks, putting games into younger players and banking cap space for a while they are closer to a flag window and/or likely to have better results over the next 5 years than us even if the immediate and recent results in terms of wins and losses are worse.
I think that if you are looking over a 5 year time horizon it is hard to name many teams worse positioned team than us given the dearth of A grade talent in the 22 to 27 year old category on our list and the lack of recent top 10 picks. As exciting as last years draftees might be we have to be realistic. It will be 3 years and 30 - 50 games minimum before we can expect them to be impacting the outcome of games unless they prove to be absolute exceptions.
Does that mean the most likely to win the spoon this year, or the likeliest to have the worst cumulative results over the next 5 years? Because those are two very different things.
You can argue that North for example are more likely to win the spoon this year than us but given that they have been down the bottom racking up draft picks, putting games into younger players and banking cap space for a while they are closer to a flag window and/or likely to have better results over the next 5 years than us even if the immediate and recent results in terms of wins and losses are worse.
I think that if you are looking over a 5 year time horizon it is hard to name many teams worse positioned team than us given the dearth of A grade talent in the 22 to 27 year old category on our list and the lack of recent top 10 picks. As exciting as last years draftees might be we have to be realistic. It will be 3 years and 30 - 50 games minimum before we can expect them to be impacting the outcome of games unless they prove to be absolute exceptions.
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I'd have North being worse on that criteria as they have crap KPP. There is no quick fix for this- you need 3-5 season for most KPP to be strong enough to play consistently. We've already got alright depth in this area- as we've been focusing on it since 2016/17.
The midfield is much easier to get a quick fix with. A draftee only needs 3 seasons to get up to speed and there are plenty of options to draft depth players.
I'd have Hawthorn somewhere between the two. They have better KPP than North but are really light on for KPF.
Deplorable trumpster
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The only KPP i can see that we have under the age of 27 that we can say is a A grader or have confidence they will be an A grader is Allen. Who are the others?
It's not just young players - it's depth overall. I figure Darling has 4 seasons left (given his great durability to date) and Barass at least 5.
We have a few guys who can fill third tall forward as they develop (Waterman, J Williams, B Williams). If we get lucky, one of Williams becomes our second forward after Darling retires (long shot though).
Bazzo and Edwards should sort us out down back. Jamieson a possibility if they decide that ruck won't work.
Will need to keep drafting to replace Darling and Barass in future, but we have the time for it.
Ruck is still a bit problematic, but I think our best bet is to trade for a solid citizen (like meek last year) to keep us serviceable.
The team with the worst forward line in the competition over the period 2005-6 says 'Hi'.
Right so they don't have a mid sized forward anywhere near the quality of Fritsch. Mcdonald and Brown yeah sure those numbers can be replicated by Taberner and Amiss.
They don't have a small likely to contribute anywhere remotely near Pickett or a goal kicking power burst mid likely to kick 29 in Petracca.
With who they have even all putting their absolute best foot forward I seem them about 60 goals short on a top 5 goal kickers basis. That is at their best.
Talk is Frederick will play a wing this year.
So lets put it on paper as say a best case scenario
Taberner 40
Schultz 40
Walters 30
Amiss 25
Fyfe 15
Erasmus 15
Frederick 15
Thats 180 goals. Lets say rock solid defence 12 goal average minimum plus point kicked to get a premiership over 26 games. Where are the other 132 goals coming from (extra game this year)
Even if they average 14 points a game with the above calculation thats an 86 per game average. You'd have to be absolutely dominant in defence and through midfield to win a premiership on that number.
Finding an extra 132 goals and in reality more like an extra 150 goals is looking very, very, very thin looking through their list.
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Do you think the games the same now?
Remind me again how many goals Lynch kicked in 2006 would you. Or even how close Rory Lobb got last year to Phil Matera's 38 in 2005. Wait Lobb isn't on their list anymore and matera didn't even make it to the prelim or grand final.
They averaged 11.3 goals per game last year and have lost 55 goals from 3 players leaving their list at the end of last year.
They ranked 14th in total points per game last year and purely as a matter of fact as it's now 2023 its been more than a decade since fremantle had a player kick 50 or more in a season.
Of course not. It's far more defensive now. Players are fitter and stronger. Play is more rebound off half back. Defensive flooding was relatively rare in that era and so on.
In those days big bags were more common and games were in general higher scoring. And that makes our forward line look even worse by era comparison.
Lynch was a reasonable 2nd or 3rd tall forward and Phil Matera was an excellent small forward. But you cannot gloss over the fact that that was about it.
Hansen was our #1 target and he averaged 1.2 goals a game and never kicked a 5 bag. In an era of scoring, that's deplorable. PMatera was excellent but he was the start, middle and end of our decent small forward list.
Considering that we had (probably) the best midfield ever assembled, certainly of the AFL era, we should have been unbeatable.
Note - I rate the WC midfield better than the three-peat from Brisbane due to Dean Cox. The 3 leading mids all won Brownlow medals for Bne, while WC's had two winners and a multiple runner up. The next tier were also pretty even but it was Cox who was the point of difference. Brisbane had a better forward line though.
And note for Phil. I have not in any way praised or talked up the Freo forward line of 2022-23. I agree with your and others assessment of their deficiencies. Amiss is the big hope, but is yet to be proven. Tabs is a float in, float out, needs supply sort. Dominates when the team dominates. Does nothing when the team struggles. Their forward line has long been identified as a weakness, and while Amiss should develop, they need more.
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West Coast 2006 had the following goal scorers for an interesting comparison
Lynch 65
Hunter 29
Hansen 17
Cox 14
Seaby 11
Embley 31
Judd 29
Cousins 20
Kerr 11
Chick 14
Massive effort from the midfield. There were a number of players who kicked 8-10 goals too but not going to list them all
Lynch 65
Hunter 29
Hansen 17
Cox 14
Seaby 11
Embley 31
Judd 29
Cousins 20
Kerr 11
Chick 14
Massive effort from the midfield. There were a number of players who kicked 8-10 goals too but not going to list them all
I seem to recall woosha saying their forward strategy was to lock the ball in and rely on the mids as if they were small forwards. It really suited the squad, as Cousins and Kerr could easily play as small forwards in their own right. Judd and Embley were also handy up forward and tall enough to be medium sized forwards.
Matera92
Brownlow Medallist
Stenglein with 10 and R Jones with 9 as well.
Brent Staker kicked 24 goals ffs with that midfield.
Just goes to show how amazing that midfield and it's depth was.
One of the hosts of our (Lions) official unofficial club podcast has West Coast as their team to rebound and finish top 10.
Reckons you haven’t really started your rebuild yet.
Reckons you haven’t really started your rebuild yet.
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Completely forgot about Staker.
West World
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In his 2nd season aged 19/20?
Ugle-Hangan is still building towards playing consistent footy and he was pick 1 and the next Franklin. Plus playing alongside Naughton and Bruce.
Amiss will get the #1 fullback on him every week.
The kid has massive expectations on him.
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Darling kicked 53 goals in his second season so its not impossible.
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