Why not raise taxes to slow inflation?

[DaBarz]

The withdrawal of negative gearing for properties rented as air BnB for a start.

1600 Australians become homeless each week because of the rental shortage.

Source: More than 1,600 Australians pushed into homelessness each month as housing crisis deepens, report finds | Housing | The Guardian

Yet numbnuts’ are arguing that low income earners can buy a house.


They can’t even rent a funking house!!!

You probably would get a more civil conversation if you leave out the insults.
Surely once you have a property you can do what you want with it ?
Air BnB landlords pay tax on that income.

I’m not immune to the plight of the homeless.
Successive state govts in SA have failed miserably in retaining public housing let alone increasing it. We have instances where these accommodations have been empty for years. There are a myriad of reasons for someone being homeless / DV, mental health issues, unemployment etc and that is a different argument altogether.


However - affordable housing for people employed and not entitled to public housing is still available. It may well mean you move away from your parents as I did.

But this whole “homeowners in the 90’s never had it so good” is simply not true. Your graph does not show repayments or interest rates.

We had 2 mortgages - my wife worked until the second one was paid off before we started our family. It was quite common to have the second mortgage.
We also downgraded our car to help with the deposit.

 

[DaBarz]

Mortgage lenders work on 30% of your income.

I get that you think they could do closer to 50% - I mean that’s what rent is.

But no, lenders won’t let you have a repayment that’s 50% of your income.

Support to buy a home | Housing Australia

www.nhfic.gov.au

Is this a thing ? I don’t know much about it but a cursory glance seems to be something that would help - 5% deposit and a fairly reasonable purchase price cap

 

[JackOutback]

Ok
$566 pw is $29432
10 x that is $294320

View attachment 1779210View attachment 1779211
Seems to fit well within your 10 x ‘s parameters

I used median, not mean, as the average because it’s a better indicator, not inflated by some exorbitant salaries.

 

[DaBarz]

I used median, not mean, as the average because it’s a better indicator, not inflated by some exorbitant salaries.

You said average when making your comparison.
Your “median” came from where ?
No link provided

I’ve shown you the average house and average wage

Are sad Boomers still trying to argue they had it just as tough and lazy kids today just need to sacrifice more? …So unless the average house was 10 times the average salary ‘back in the day’, you’re talking bollocks. Of course there are cheaper houses and there are people earning smaller wages, but the averages tell the story.

 

[kranky al]

You probably would get a more civil conversation if you leave out the insults.
Surely once you have a property you can do what you want with it ?
Air BnB landlords pay tax on that income.

I’m not immune to the plight of the homeless.
Successive state govts in SA have failed miserably in retaining public housing let alone increasing it. We have instances where these accommodations have been empty for years. There are a myriad of reasons for someone being homeless / DV, mental health issues, unemployment etc and that is a different argument altogether.


However - affordable housing for people employed and not entitled to public housing is still available. It may well mean you move away from your parents as I did.

But this whole “homeowners in the 90’s never had it so good” is simply not true. Your graph does not show repayments or interest rates.

We had 2 mortgages - my wife worked until the second one was paid off before we started our family. It was quite common to have the second mortgage.
We also downgraded our car to help with the deposit.

Mate i was a homeowner in the 90’s - bought a unit for 120k and sold it a few years ago for 430.

The average wage has not gone up correspondingly.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Mate i was a homeowner in the 90’s - bought a unit for 120k and sold it a few years ago for 430.

The average wage has not gone up correspondingly.

Like every other discussion about the rising cost of homeownership on the board, this too has turned into a strawman where the point of contention is no longer about the economic and social effects of housing becoming more expensive and being built further away from the city centre where infrastructure is not keeping up, but is simply whether or not cheap houses exist on a binary level. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how the birth rate is dropping and an increasing amount of capital is being shored up in illiquid assets rather than being circulated through the economy but some genius will find a dilapidated three bedroom house in Melton South for $400k and somehow this negates all of those points.

 

[Home Alone]

Like every other discussion about the rising cost of homeownership on the board, this too has turned into a strawman where the point of contention is no longer about the economic and social effects of housing becoming more expensive and being built further away from the city centre where infrastructure is not keeping up, but is simply whether or not cheap houses exist on a binary level. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how the birth rate is dropping and an increasing amount of capital is being shored up in illiquid assets rather than being circulated through the economy but some genius will find a dilapidated three bedroom house in Melton South for $400k and somehow this negates all of those points.

I am also of the view that is is some sort of dick swinging contest. 'My generation had it the toughest' and if you don't agree with me then every every prejudice I have against the generation who doesn't agree with me is brought into play.

Buying your first property is always tough financially. But the numbers and ratios now is just even more scary.

 

[DaBarz]

The claim was made that the wage / price ratio was 10 times now. It was 10 times then also.

Every generation has their cross to bear. Some just bear it better than others.

We never had the benefit of 3 point something interest rates where you could whack a stack of your principal.

 

[JackOutback]

You said average when making your comparison.
Your “median” came from where ?
No link provided

I’ve shown you the average house and average wage

Median was in the sentence you selectively cut out. Median is better than mean.

 

[DaBarz]

Median was in the sentence you selectively cut out. Median is better than mean.

“The median salary in Australia is $79,800, the median house price is $880,000. So unless the average house was 10 times the average salary ‘back in the day’, you’re talking bollocks.”
And Bingo - guess what? 10x’s!
You included no link to this “median”.

You even referred to the “averages” that “tell the story”.


“Of course there are cheaper houses and there are people earning smaller wages, but the averages tell the story.”

You set the parameters not me.

 

[JackOutback]

“The median salary in Australia is $79,800, the median house price is $880,000. So unless the average house was 10 times the average salary ‘back in the day’, you’re talking bollocks.”
And Bingo - guess what? 10x’s!
You included no link to this “median”.

You even referred to the “averages” that “tell the story”.


“Of course there are cheaper houses and there are people earning smaller wages, but the averages tell the story.”

You set the parameters not me.

You do understand median is also an average, no? And since I clearly specified median, that was the average I was using? Mean isn’t the only average.

 

[Golden_6]

You probably would get a more civil conversation if you leave out the insults.
Surely once you have a property you can do what you want with it ?
Air BnB landlords pay tax on that income.

I’m not immune to the plight of the homeless.
Successive state govts in SA have failed miserably in retaining public housing let alone increasing it. We have instances where these accommodations have been empty for years. There are a myriad of reasons for someone being homeless / DV, mental health issues, unemployment etc and that is a different argument altogether.


However - affordable housing for people employed and not entitled to public housing is still available. It may well mean you move away from your parents as I did.

But this whole “homeowners in the 90’s never had it so good” is simply not true. Your graph does not show repayments or interest rates.

We had 2 mortgages - my wife worked until the second one was paid off before we started our family. It was quite common to have the second mortgage.
We also downgraded our car to help with the deposit.

Not true. The Government exists to create policies and intervene in the market when necessary in order to improve society and prevent negative outcomes in general.

This is a good example of where Government intervention is necessary. We have a housing crisis that’s largely due to a limited supply in housing stock. AirBNB or short term rentals remove housing stock from the market.

If the landlords don’t like any potential changes to reduce incentive around short term rentals, they can sell which still provides valuable additional housing stock.

 

[DaBarz]

Not true. The Government exists to create policies and intervene in the market when necessary in order to improve society and prevent negative outcomes in general.

This is a good example of where Government intervention is necessary. We have a housing crisis that’s largely due to a limited supply in housing stock. AirBNB or short term rentals remove housing stock from the market.

If the landlords don’t like any potential changes to reduce incentive around short term rentals, they can sell which still provides valuable additional housing stock.

Can’t see it happening.

 

[nut]

40 years ago, what was the average length of a home loan.? 15 years?

That’s the first thing that would bring the price of housing down… limit the length of loans back to 15 years.

 

[DaBarz]

You do understand median is also an average, no? And since I clearly specified median, that was the average I was using? Mean isn’t the only average.

I understand perfectly. Your post referred to average.
Mean is the average
Median is median.
Here
This may help

Statistics intro: Mean, median, & mode (video) | Khan Academy

Learn for free about math, art, computer programming, economics, physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, finance, history, and more. Khan Academy is a nonprofit with the mission of providing a free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere.

www.khanacademy.org

 

[JackOutback]

I understand perfectly. Your post referred to average.
Mean is the average
Median is median.
Here
This may help

Statistics intro: Mean, median, & mode (video) | Khan Academy

Learn for free about math, art, computer programming, economics, physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, finance, history, and more. Khan Academy is a nonprofit with the mission of providing a free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere.

www.khanacademy.org

View attachment 1780987

I see you simply copied the top google search without looking further. I could have grabbed any number of definitions, including from the European Commission and The Open University, but I picked the one that may be best suited... Maths for Dummies.

The Three Types of Average – Median, Mode and Mean - dummies

We use three different types of average in maths: the mean, the mode and the median, each of which describes a different ‘normal’ value. The mean is what you ge

www.dummies.com

 

[DaBarz]

I see you simply copied the top google search without looking further. I could have grabbed any number of definitions, including from the European Commission and The Open University, but I picked the one that may be best suited... Maths for Dummies.

The Three Types of Average – Median, Mode and Mean - dummies

We use three different types of average in maths: the mean, the mode and the median, each of which describes a different ‘normal’ value. The mean is what you ge

www.dummies.com

I picked the first one.
You went searching !

Did you read it

• “Mean: The mean is what you get by adding up all of the numbers and dividing by how many numbers were in the list. Most people think of the mean when they use the word ‘average’ in a mathematical sense.
  In some ways the mean is the fairest average –you get the mean if the numbers are all piled together and then distributed equally. But the mean is also the hardest average to work out.”

So I’d say since this is a mathematical equation it’s what everyone (except you) would use.
Batting averages for cricket, average disposals for footy , etc are what we use.
The range of values is entirely different.

Anyway
You have lost track of the topic
You’re wrong
Move on

 

[JackOutback]

I picked the first one.
You went searching !

Did you read it

• “Mean: The mean is what you get by adding up all of the numbers and dividing by how many numbers were in the list. Most people think of the mean when they use the word ‘average’ in a mathematical sense.
  In some ways the mean is the fairest average –you get the mean if the numbers are all piled together and then distributed equally. But the mean is also the hardest average to work out.”

So I’d say since this is a mathematical equation it’s what everyone (except you) would use.
Batting averages for cricket, average disposals for footy , etc are what we use.
The range of values is entirely different.

Anyway
You have lost track of the topic
You’re wrong
Move on

This is a strange hill you want to die on. Median is objectively an average, it is defined as such. I stated I was using the median average precisely because it is fairer when working out salaries as mean, while fairer in some respects, can be skewed too high due to some exorbitant salaries. You can't get past the fact that you thought mean was the only average worth considering.

Here's a simple puzzle for you. Five salaries of $50,000, $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 and $500,000. The mean of these is $152,000, the median is $70,000. Which do you think is closer to the 'average' salary of these five people?

But yes, this is off topic and will leave it here.

 

[DaBarz]

This is a strange hill you want to die on. Median is objectively an average, it is defined as such. I stated I was using the median average precisely because it is fairer when working out salaries as mean, while fairer in some respects, can be skewed too high due to some exorbitant salaries. You can't get past the fact that you thought mean was the only average worth considering.

Here's a simple puzzle for you. Five salaries of $50,000, $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 and $500,000. The mean of these is $152,000, the median is $70,000. Which do you think is closer to the 'average' salary of these five people?

But yes, this is off topic and will leave it here.

Did your “median” only include 5 numbers ?
Try this
Dave Warner
0 0 0 0 100

What’s his average ?
Anyway your post specified “average” - not once but 3 times and that’s what you were provided.

I’m out
You’re boring me to death

 

[Carn The Berries]

You probably would get a more civil conversation if you leave out the insults.
Surely once you have a property you can do what you want with it ?
Air BnB landlords pay tax on that income.

I’m not immune to the plight of the homeless.
Successive state govts in SA have failed miserably in retaining public housing let alone increasing it. We have instances where these accommodations have been empty for years. There are a myriad of reasons for someone being homeless / DV, mental health issues, unemployment etc and that is a different argument altogether.


However - affordable housing for people employed and not entitled to public housing is still available. It may well mean you move away from your parents as I did.

But this whole “homeowners in the 90’s never had it so good” is simply not true. Your graph does not show repayments or interest rates.

We had 2 mortgages - my wife worked until the second one was paid off before we started our family. It was quite common to have the second mortgage.
We also downgraded our car to help with the deposit.

You're wife worked until you paid off your (2nd) mortgage, then you started a family? If you're posting that to show that "even the average Joe can do it" that's a horrible example!

 

[DaBarz]

You're wife worked until you paid off your (2nd) mortgage, then you started a family? If you're posting that to show that "even the average Joe can do it" that's a horrible example!

How so ?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Did your “median” only include 5 numbers ?
Try this
Dave Warner
0 0 0 0 100

What’s his average ?
Anyway your post specified “average” - not once but 3 times and that’s what you were provided.

I’m out
You’re boring me to death

This is exactly why mean average can be completely misleading.

Let's continue with your David Warner example. His 5 scores this Australian summer were - 0,3,21,28,48. His (mean) average was exactly 50. Was he batting like a player who would be averaging 50 (over time)? Of course not. He had one good innings that saved his bacon.

Depending on the spread of a data set, median can be a much more effective measure of the central tendency (as the example above shows).

To try and argue that median isn't one of the methods of calculating an average is disingenuous.

 

[DaBarz]

This is exactly why mean average can be completely misleading.

Let's continue with your David Warner example. His 5 scores this Australian summer were - 0,3,21,28,48. His (mean) average was exactly 50. Was he batting like a player who would be averaging 50 (over time)? Of course not. He had one good innings that saved his bacon.

Depending on the spread of a data set, median can be a much more effective measure of the central tendency (as the example above shows).

To try and argue that median isn't one of the methods of calculating an average is disingenuous.

Of course - that’s why median is ALWAYS used in sport / wages/ cost of houses

 

[DaBarz]

This is exactly why mean average can be completely misleading.

Let's continue with your David Warner example. His 5 scores this Australian summer were - 0,3,21,28,48. His (mean) average was exactly 50. Was he batting like a player who would be averaging 50 (over time)? Of course not. He had one good innings that saved his bacon.

Depending on the spread of a data set, median can be a much more effective measure of the central tendency (as the example above shows).

To try and argue that median isn't one of the methods of calculating an average is disingenuous.

Sorry
Can you show me how you got an average of 50 when his highest score was 48 and you’ve used 5 scores ?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Sorry
Can you show me how you got an average of 50 when his highest score was 48 and you’ve used 5 scores ?

Apologies... Seems I missed a couple of innings when I was doing my analysis. It was actually 8 innings, mean average 39.38, median 15.5.

5,48,21,28,0,3,200,10. Total runs 315 divided by 8 innings = 39.38.

Fair to say he wasn't playing like someone with an average of close to 40 either.