Play Nice Will Geelong win the 2016 premiership?

[Mr Meeseeks]

And no doubt Hawthorn would love to have recruited him. There were several Hawks supporters who were convinced it was a done deal.

Moreover, there were other clubs who could have paid Paddy a hell of a lot more than what Geelong offered him, but he chose Geelong. You have to admire Dangerfield for sticking to his guns; he wanted to come home.

I digress.....

No s**t. What is the point of saying that? I wasn't being antagonistic.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

You guys can downplay the loss of Kelly and SJ from the midfield all you want but they were still influential, classy, big bodied midfielders who knew the Geelong structure. Dangerfield and little Selwood balances this loss nicely but in my opinion, it wont lead to a drastic rise up the ladder. The midfield depth just isn't great. Yet.

What about Blicavs (hopefully released from the ruck shackles for good, coming off a B&F season) and Duncan (top 3 in the B&F in 2014 and looked to have gone to another level in 2015, until injury struck)?

J.Selwood, Dangerfield, Blicavs, Duncan, Caddy, S.Selwood as the core, Guthrie, Bartel and Motlop as options when not required elsewhere and then any number of Murdoch, Horlin-Smith, Lang, Cowan and Cockatoo making up the numbers. I wouldn't be against trying to convert Bews into a tagger. I think that's right up there, as far as midfields go. It's got toughness, size, speed, skill and goalkickers.

 

[Sttew]

No s**t. What is the point of saying that? I wasn't being antagonistic.

My bad. I thought you were jumping on the "Dangerfield is a so-so player who can't kick and who is not respected by oppositions" bandwagon. Seems to be the latest theme.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

J.Selwood, Dangerfield, Blicavs, Duncan, Caddy, S.Selwood as the core, Guthrie, Bartel and Motlop as options when not required elsewhere and then any number of Murdoch, Horlin-Smith, Lang, Cowan and Cockatoo making up the numbers. I wouldn't be against trying to convert Bews into a tagger. I think that's right up there, as far as midfields go. It's got toughness, size, speed, skill and goalkickers.

Nobody can seriously argue the core isn't a strong one, those first 4 names are stars. It is the 'making up the numbers' players I was referring to, they are unproven.

No issue with your optimism, I'm no saying the Cats will plummet, I just dont think they'll bolt up the ladder either.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

My bad. I thought you were jumping on the "Dangerfield is a so-so player who can't kick and who is not respected by oppositions" bandwagon. Seems to be the latest theme.

I dont think he is a great kick. But it doesn't matter when he wins as many hard balls as he does. Sewell wasn't a great kick either, doesn't mean I didn't rate him, and Dangerfield is better than Sewell was

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Nobody can seriously argue the core isn't a strong one, those first 4 names are stars. It is the 'making up the numbers' players I was referring to, they are unproven.

No issue with your optimism, I'm no saying the Cats will plummet, I just dont think they'll bolt up the ladder either.

And that's all good. What it reinforces is that with Johnson, it could have been lethal. But, considering that, as mentioned, Bartel, Guthrie and Motlop could also be used in the midfield if needed, we're talking about the guys that would be 8-10 in the pecking order, at this stage of the preseason. We don't need them to dominate; we just need 2-4 of them to be able to step up and do a job when required. I think most clubs would look a bit dodgy in the midfield, once you get down to their ninth and tenth best. FWIW, I like Horlin-Smith, I think he's a decent midfielder. Murdoch would be handy on the wing, with his pace and ability to break the lines. And, as I've mentioned, I think Lang could be a star: he's got speed, skill and tenacity...I like him a lot and now he's got a season under his belt.

 

[Vintage]

Nobody is a lock for anything mate. The fixture will help but there are only 5 double up games over 22 weeks. Realistically, the difference between a good fixture and a bad one is only a couple of games.

i agree with you that Geelong aren't a lock for top 4/6.

But, regarding the fixture you're being a bit simplistic, it's also about where you play teams... play WCE and Freo at Subi - good chance of dropping both games; play the at KP (or whatever it's called now) and they are a good chance of winning both.

so an easy fixture sees them play freo/wc at home, brissie and GC away; a tougher one is opposite. this applies for more teams but i've simplified.

 

[manboob]

Haha that is being extremely optimistic. What are you going to do, send him to AusKick for a kicking clinic? He's nearly 26 years old!

He's a fantastic player but he isn't perfect, and 2 months at a new club isn't going to see him miraculously start to consistently thread accurate 20-40 metre passes through traffic.

What you see is what you get, and what you're getting is the best athlete in the AFL. A bull at the contest who will win the ball 9 times out of 10, break out of stoppages, jam the ball on his boot and gain you 60-70 metres, win the next contest, rinse and repeat.

He doesn't tend to overthink things which is a good thing because ability to read the game is among a handful of weaknesses that come with the package. How you cover those weaknesses and maximize his strengths will be interesting to see over the coming months.

We'll see. We've done it before and when you've got multiple premiership players telling what to do you might listen...

 

[ADL9798]

We'll see. We've done it before and when you've got multiple premiership players telling what to do you might listen...

With who?

 

[manboob]

With who?

Selwood (goal-kicking especially), Hawkins (goal-kicking) Blicavs, Caddy off the top of my head.

 

[romeohwho]

i agree with you that Geelong aren't a lock for top 4/6.

But, regarding the fixture you're being a bit simplistic, it's also about where you play teams... play WCE and Freo at Subi - good chance of dropping both games; play the at KP (or whatever it's called now) and they are a good chance of winning both.

so an easy fixture sees them play freo/wc at home, brissie and GC away; a tougher one is opposite. this applies for more teams but i've simplified.

Yep, precisely, so every time I look at our fixture, I feel a bit surer about our relevance this year.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

This is preseason so everyone is a bit excited.
I think Geelong would be doing really well to scrape into the finals.
They're experiencing a downturn and finishing 10th was a good indication of where they are at.
Mortgaging their future with next years top draft pick at this stage of their downturn is extremely optimistic.
Are they a flag threat? Wouldn't think so

 

[Art Vandelay_]

This is preseason so everyone is a bit excited.
I think Geelong would be doing really well to scrape into the finals.
They're experiencing a downturn and finishing 10th was a good indication of where they are at.
Mortgaging there future with next years draft picks at this stage of their downturn is extremely optimistic.
Are they a flag threat? Wouldn't think so

Non plural. We traded away 1 future year pick. Also worth noting we received a 3rd rounder back from Brisbane which should be late 30's to mid 40's so we haven't actually had a net loss, we've just downgraded R1 to R3 for Henderson. Smith and Dangerfield were purely from the last draft.

 

[ADL9798]

Selwood (goal-kicking especially), Hawkins (goal-kicking) Blicavs, Caddy off the top of my head.

I'm sure that like those 4, Dangerfield will have done plenty of work on his kicking over the years, and to be fair in his early days at the Crows we did see improvement from him in that department. Once he was taught to slow down and steady himself instead of trying to kick the ball while running at full tilt he became a much more effective player for us.

It's still not something that comes naturally to him though - particularly compared to some of the other top 5 midfielders like Pendlebury, Fyfe, Ablett etc; and I doubt that it ever will. Having said that, they'll never have his explosiveness and athleticism, and if he could weight his kicks through traffic like those 3 then he'd probably be the best player in the game.

I think if you're really expecting 2 months of Joel Selwood and Jimmy Bartel telling him to kick straight to miraculously convert him into Andrew McLeod by round 1 then you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I doubt that if you traded in Pendlebury you'd expect him to start bursting packs open and taking big contested marks purely because he's hanging out with Tom Hawkins, it's just not part of his game.

Dangerfield is what he is, a player with considerable strengths that were sorely lacking in your midfield last year (his ability to win the contested ball in particular), but also a small (very small!) handful of weaknesses that come with the package and at his age aren't going anywhere, which I'm sure you'll discover watching him play from week to week over the course of the season. Looking at him as a whole though, he's still a bloody impressive and damaging player. He's a force of nature on the field and by his dominance at the contest I think you'll find that the way Geelong plays will probably alter slightly as a result, such is his influence.

With respect to this thread - will he improve you as a side? Undoubtedly, and I'm sure that even if he isn't lacing out kicks like Darren Jarman you'll still have an extremely good footballer on your hands.

In conjunction with the other additions you made during the off season (and balanced against the losses of key players like Johnson, Kelly, Rivers, Stokes, McIntosh, and the likely decline of the 30+ brigade in Bartel, Enright, Lonergan, Mackie and Taylor in 2016) will it be enough to take Geelong from 10th into Premiership contention? Unlikely in my opinion.

I'd put the Cats with a number of sides looking to push into that bracket from 5th-8th this season.

 

[Sttew]

This is preseason so everyone is a bit excited.
I think Geelong would be doing really well to scrape into the finals.
They're experiencing a downturn and finishing 10th was a good indication of where they are at.
Mortgaging their future with next years top draft pick at this stage of their downturn is extremely optimistic.
Are they a flag threat? Wouldn't think so

Lost me with your opening line! I can think of at least one club that would not I still excitement

 

[Pessimistic]

For mine, they've boosted the midfield and depth, so should be able to compete with top teams there. for the whole game not just some of it.
Defence will be as good -probably.

How will the forward line be? will Hawkins continue to improve, or is it a slow tail off from there. Its the goalkicking options which seem to have taken the biggest bashing recently. No doubt cats fans will be scrutinsing Menzel and Cockatoo closely

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Lost me with your opening line! I can think of at least one club that would not I still excitement

I excitement still would club open at least

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

In conjunction with the other additions you made during the off season (and balanced against the losses of key players like Johnson, Kelly, Rivers, Stokes, McIntosh, and the likely decline of the 30+ brigade in Bartel, Enright, Lonergan, Mackie and Taylor in 2016) will it be enough to take Geelong from 10th into Premiership contention? Unlikely in my opinion.

Taylor turns 30 in June. Yes, he's not getting any younger and the Cats need to start thinking about life without him in 3-4 years (probably what Henderson's here for), but he's going to be 29-30 in 2016. He's in the prime of his career. Can you come up with an example of a player that pretty much lost all of his ability overnight, between the ages of 29 and 30? Henderson will free Taylor up to play the Josh Gibson role, sweeping along the backline and taking marks at will. Is there anyone that's better-equipped to do that than Harry Taylor? I really think people should reconsider this notion that a player is done as soon as he turns 30. You did see Hawthorn last year, right?

Rivers and Stokes spent time in the VFL in 2015 (and it wasn't because they were recovering from injury). Younger players had supplanted them. McIntosh would have been a key player, but he was rarely available, so the Cats made do with what they had. He's not a loss, because he didn't play. The only player that I'd say would have been a near-certainty to be best 22 of the ones that you've mentioned is Johnson.

It's obviously Enright's last season and I'd say Lonergan, Bartel and Mackie will all be finishing up too. They've all been great players, but it's clearly getting close to time. I think Mackie, in particular, is just hanging on and I wouldn't be surprised if someone, like Kolodjashnij or Thurlow took his spot in the side. Geelong has plenty of young players that can fill the void.

Again, people are looking at this as being the exact same Geelong side with four additions. The reason Geelong supporters have such optimism isn't just that we've picked up four players that are likely to walk into the best 22; it's that we've picked those players up, plus (essentially) the following players that played half a season or less in 2015:

• Rhys Stanley
• Daniel Menzel
• Mitch Duncan
• Mitch Clark
• Nathan Vardy
• Lincoln McCarthy
• Jimmy Bartel

It's like saying West Coast would only expect to improve due to the additions of Jetta, Giles and Redden. West Coast would expect to improve because of a few handy additions to the side, plus the return of some vital players to their structure, that were injured for most of 2015. It's the same with Geelong, plus they have an absolute gift of a fixture.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Taylor turns 30 in June. Yes, he's not getting any younger and the Cats need to start thinking about life without him in 3-4 years (probably what Henderson's here for), but he's going to be 29-30 in 2016. He's in the prime of his career. Can you come up with an example of a player that pretty much lost all of his ability overnight, between the ages of 29 and 30? Henderson will free Taylor up to play the Josh Gibson role, sweeping along the backline and taking marks at will. Is there anyone that's better-equipped to do that than Harry Taylor? I really think people should reconsider this notion that a player is done as soon as he turns 30. You did see Hawthorn last year, right?

Rivers and Stokes spent time in the VFL in 2015 (and it wasn't because they were recovering from injury). Younger players had supplanted them. McIntosh would have been a key player, but he was rarely available, so the Cats made do with what they had. He's not a loss, because he didn't play. The only player that I'd say would have been a near-certainty to be best 22 of the ones that you've mentioned is Johnson.

It's obviously Enright's last season and I'd say Lonergan, Bartel and Mackie will all be finishing up too. They've all been great players, but it's clearly getting close to time. I think Mackie, in particular, is just hanging on and I wouldn't be surprised if someone, like Kolodjashnij or Thurlow took his spot in the side. Geelong has plenty of young players that can fill the void.

Again, people are looking at this as being the exact same Geelong side with four additions. The reason Geelong supporters have such optimism isn't just that we've picked up four players that are likely to walk into the best 22; it's that we've picked those players up, plus (essentially) the following players that played half a season or less in 2015:

• Rhys Stanley
• Daniel Menzel
• Mitch Duncan
• Mitch Clark
• Nathan Vardy
• Lincoln McCarthy
• Jimmy Bartel

It's like saying West Coast would only expect to improve due to the additions of Jetta, Giles and Redden. West Coast would expect to improve because of a few handy additions to the side, plus the return of some vital players to their structure, that were injured for most of 2015. It's the same with Geelong.

Mackie just signed a 2yr deal at the end of last season.

 

[FuManchu]

Bottom part of the 8. Might crack 4th, but i just don't see that same amount of experience and intensity that we were used used to for 7 or 8 years. I also wonder if Selwood is starting to show signs of being battered for too long and whilst dangerfield will alleviate a lot of tag pressure on him, if he is a few percent off what he was, it could actually amount to quite a lot in terms of effectiveness. All speculation of course. But if they get Clark and Hawkins functioning well together, then its game on for them.

 

[Sttew]

I excitement still would club open at least

I still = instill - Auto spellcheck!!

 

[Sttew]

How will the forward line be? will Hawkins continue to improve, or is it a slow tail off from there. Its the goalkicking options which seem to have taken the biggest bashing recently. No doubt cats fans will be scrutinsing Menzel and Cockatoo closely

Valid question. You would expect better delivery of the ball if our midfield improves.

Hawkins last year was interrupted by the death of his mother. He has said this event in his life derailed his season.

I would also expect Selwood to spend more time up forward

 

[Pessimistic]

Valid question. You would expect better delivery of the ball if our midfield improves.

Hawkins last year was interrupted by the death of his mother. He has said this event in his life derailed his season.

I would also expect Selwood to spend more time up forward

Yeh, could easily happen. 'Twas good when our games were fierce and close (could manage without the losing tough)

 

[vozzon]

Geelong should challenge for the 4-8 positions, especially with an easier draw. Also depends on the injuries/fitness of the mentioned players like bartel, clarke, stanley duncan etc. you have a good spine and a good mix of experienced and younger players. As a port supporter i feel we are in the same boat of having a year with key players being injured, got games into fringe players and have an easier draw this year (only difference being you picked up danger and we got toumpas lol). Should be a good year with the Hawks, WC, Freo and Sydney still arguably being the best lists in the AFL, with GWS, Geel, Port and GC all stepping up and challenging.

 

[Pessimistic]

Eve a team which is seen as a 'pretender' can make life difficult for the other team in a prelim (should they qualify). sometimes even the eventual premier is pushed to the limit