Will there ever be a rainbow?

Remove this Banner Ad

stabler

stabler

Premiership Player
Veteran
Feb 7, 2008
4,435
7,061
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
(Warning: bit of a philosophical, meandering rant ahead, my apologies)

One more game to go in season 2015 and I have no better indication of where this team is at than I did at the start of the year. If we are being brutally honest - realistic, not negative - we will lose to GWS next week in demoralizing fashion in front of a miniscule crowd; ultimately leaving us with just two more wins than last year. Not trying to be negative but deep down we all know this is how it plays out.. we've been here many times before. Point is, 6 wins for the year is not a succesful year in my opinion, but others may disagree.

Lately i've had this feeling like the MFC is like George Clooney's character in Gravity (spoilers)... that we are hurtling further and further into space without any hope of getting home. We always seem to be behind the pack, in game style and in the physical traits and skills of our players. Like every other team, we unearth some players for the future but worryingly, an equal number of players if not more, go backwards. This creates this void where it feels like we are never really in the now... It always seems to be a future that may aswel just be a fairytale. Perennially out of reach..

I guess I just want to know if anyone sees anything tangible in this team we have and the team we are building. Will we ever be a real contender or is this just an endless cycle of rebuilding and living in hope? Can Billy stretch and ANB be premiership players for this club? looking at all the other clubs doing well and getting stronger and faster I can see why essendon felt the need to risk it all by going full dank all those years ago. Competition be scary, yo!

Merge this with a more appropriate thread if need be, just looking for some lost souls like myself that might have a more positive outlook on this clubs' future than myself...

And before anyone tells me to jump off for being negative, as much as I whinge and bitch about the Dees, I'm stuck with this club for life, whether I like it or not. Like herpes. It may be doomed but I'll be going down with this ship like the rest of you salty sea dogs.

Stabler.
 
stabler said:
(Warning: bit of a philosophical, meandering rant ahead, my apologies)

One more game to go in season 2015 and I have no better indication of where this team is at than I did at the start of the year. If we are being brutally honest - realistic, not negative - we will lose to GWS next week in demoralizing fashion in front of a miniscule crowd; ultimately leaving us with just two more wins than last year. Not trying to be negative but deep down we all know this is how it plays out.. we've been here many times before. Point is, 6 wins for the year is not a succesful year in my opinion, but others may disagree.

Lately i've had this feeling like the MFC is like George Clooney's character in Gravity (spoilers)... that we are hurtling further and further into space without any hope of getting home. We always seem to be behind the pack, in game style and in the physical traits and skills of our players. Like every other team, we unearth some players for the future but worryingly, an equal number of players if not more, go backwards. This creates this void where it feels like we are never really in the now... It always seems to be a future that may aswel just be a fairytale. Perennially out of reach..

I guess I just want to know if anyone sees anything tangible in this team we have and the team we are building. Will we ever be a real contender or is this just an endless cycle of rebuilding and living in hope? Can Billy stretch and ANB be premiership players for this club? looking at all the other clubs doing well and getting stronger and faster I can see why essendon felt the need to risk it all by going full dank all those years ago. Competition be scary, yo!

Merge this with a more appropriate thread if need be, just looking for some lost souls like myself that might have a more positive outlook on this clubs' future than myself...

And before anyone tells me to jump off for being negative, as much as I whinge and bitch about the Dees, I'm stuck with this club for life, whether I like it or not. Like herpes. It may be doomed but I'll be going down with this ship like the rest of you salty sea dogs.

Stabler.
Click to expand...

Hopefully we end up like Sandra Bullock and not George Clooney. Also, I've gotta say I've never seen the Dees supporter/Herpes analogy before :oops:

You've pretty much summed up my feelings about where we are at as well. I still retain some positivity that we're heading in the right direction, but geez it's a slow, painful, frustrating process.

Until we're out of the storm, I'll be continuing to do what I can to bail out the ship as best I can. (Not really sure what I can do.... send lots of :rainbow::rainbow::rainbow: the club's way and just stick fat I suppose)
 
Hogans the best young talent we've had in my lifetime (Early 20s), we keep him and we can do anything. Brayshaw is also probably the best first year mid I've seen for us (Yes, better than Trengove).
 

Log in to remove this ad.

tumblr_ll3f43MYHs1qg0rnuo1_500.jpg
 
I think the general consensus is that 8-10 wins would've constituted a reasonably successful season given our fixture and playing list. Obviously 6 wins is well short of that mark. Worryingly, when Roos came to the club he said that wins weren't the most reliable indicator of progress as much as % is. 80% was what he thought was a reasonable indicator of becoming competitive.

Consider in 2014 our % was 68.4% and in 2015 our % sits at 74.7%, that's an improvement from 2013 when our % was in the low 50's, but that's setting such a low baseline it's hard to gauge how meaningful the numerical improvement is. By Roos's own theory, we're still not a competitive side after two years under his coaching. Is it reasonable to expect improvement in 2016?? I have no idea. Where does the blame lie? I have no idea.

I think we have a lot of talent 21 years and younger, what concerns me going forward is that we lack a group of on-field leaders who can teach the younger players how to win, as many of them are unaccustomed to winning. It's a vicious cycle we're having problems breaking away from.
 
This is the first year this decade that I haven't been hoping for honourable losses to ensure we get the best possible pick in the draft. I've actually been disappointed and angry in some of our losses this season, whereas the last few years I would've been happy losing to teams in our part of the ladder. To me this is an improvement in itself. But the biggest improvement I see is our top 10 or so players are better than we've had in a long time. And having young guys come through like Hogan, Brayshaw, Salem, ANB and Stretch is some genuine hope for the future we haven't had before. And it gives me more confidence that we are more likely to recruit 10 year AFL players in the draft rather than guys like Cook and Morton. Add the improvement from Viney and Watts and it's not hard to see we are a much better side than the past five years. We still lack a superstar midfielder and our bottom 6 or 7 players that make it into our 22 each week are good VFL players but aren't up to playing AFL. You look at the top sides and they all have about 6 or 7 players not making their 22 that are more than capable of coming into the 22 and filling a role without having any effect on the team. So I still feel we need to turn over 10 to 15 of our worst players and get in AFL quality players before we can match it with the top sides and contend for a flag. Realistically this is still 4 or 5 years away but I can actually see it happening now. There are plenty of supporters out there that are expecting us to do a Port or Bulldogs and go from bottom four to finals contenders and I think the fact that we haven't been able to do that under Paul Roos is making people think we haven't improved with him as coach. But remember, the year before he took over we lost to all 17 teams. I'm not sure if that's ever been done before but when you lose to every single side in the comp you are coming from a long way back. Yes it's been slow but the improvement is there and I think we are now in a position that if things go our way in the off season we could be the next Port or Bulldogs. Sorry for the positive rant, but as the op said I'm stuck with this club for life, and I want to see the light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter.
 
Chadwik said:
This is the first year this decade that I haven't been hoping for honourable losses to ensure we get the best possible pick in the draft. I've actually been disappointed and angry in some of our losses this season, whereas the last few years I would've been happy losing to teams in our part of the ladder. To me this is an improvement in itself. But the biggest improvement I see is our top 10 or so players are better than we've had in a long time. And having young guys come through like Hogan, Brayshaw, Salem, ANB and Stretch is some genuine hope for the future we haven't had before. And it gives me more confidence that we are more likely to recruit 10 year AFL players in the draft rather than guys like Cook and Morton. Add the improvement from Viney and Watts and it's not hard to see we are a much better side than the past five years. We still lack a superstar midfielder and our bottom 6 or 7 players that make it into our 22 each week are good VFL players but aren't up to playing AFL. You look at the top sides and they all have about 6 or 7 players not making their 22 that are more than capable of coming into the 22 and filling a role without having any effect on the team. So I still feel we need to turn over 10 to 15 of our worst players and get in AFL quality players before we can match it with the top sides and contend for a flag. Realistically this is still 4 or 5 years away but I can actually see it happening now. There are plenty of supporters out there that are expecting us to do a Port or Bulldogs and go from bottom four to finals contenders and I think the fact that we haven't been able to do that under Paul Roos is making people think we haven't improved with him as coach. But remember, the year before he took over we lost to all 17 teams. I'm not sure if that's ever been done before but when you lose to every single side in the comp you are coming from a long way back. Yes it's been slow but the improvement is there and I think we are now in a position that if things go our way in the off season we could be the next Port or Bulldogs. Sorry for the positive rant, but as the op said I'm stuck with this club for life, and I want to see the light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter.
Click to expand...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph
 
Chadwik said:
This is the first year this decade that I haven't been hoping for honourable losses to ensure we get the best possible pick in the draft. I've actually been disappointed and angry in some of our losses this season, whereas the last few years I would've been happy losing to teams in our part of the ladder. To me this is an improvement in itself. But the biggest improvement I see is our top 10 or so players are better than we've had in a long time. And having young guys come through like Hogan, Brayshaw, Salem, ANB and Stretch is some genuine hope for the future we haven't had before. And it gives me more confidence that we are more likely to recruit 10 year AFL players in the draft rather than guys like Cook and Morton. Add the improvement from Viney and Watts and it's not hard to see we are a much better side than the past five years. We still lack a superstar midfielder and our bottom 6 or 7 players that make it into our 22 each week are good VFL players but aren't up to playing AFL. You look at the top sides and they all have about 6 or 7 players not making their 22 that are more than capable of coming into the 22 and filling a role without having any effect on the team. So I still feel we need to turn over 10 to 15 of our worst players and get in AFL quality players before we can match it with the top sides and contend for a flag. Realistically this is still 4 or 5 years away but I can actually see it happening now. There are plenty of supporters out there that are expecting us to do a Port or Bulldogs and go from bottom four to finals contenders and I think the fact that we haven't been able to do that under Paul Roos is making people think we haven't improved with him as coach. But remember, the year before he took over we lost to all 17 teams. I'm not sure if that's ever been done before but when you lose to every single side in the comp you are coming from a long way back. Yes it's been slow but the improvement is there and I think we are now in a position that if things go our way in the off season we could be the next Port or Bulldogs. Sorry for the positive rant, but as the op said I'm stuck with this club for life, and I want to see the light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter.
Click to expand...

I like where you're coming from, and I think we can all agree that we've improved greatly over the last couple of years.

I suppose the concern I have is that our effort, commitment, drive, whatever you want to call it, is still the worst in the comp by a long way. Seriously, we've played four quarters in only 6-7 games, I reckon - wins not including Brisbane and the losses against Adelaide and Queen's Birthday. That's at least two thirds of the season we just haven't turned up for a quarter, a half, or more, and been killed during those off periods. Everybody has an off game, but that should be the anomaly, not the norm as it is with us.

This is the elephant in the room. This is the most crucial issue for us to fix. If we were just middling on this one thing, we'd probably have our 8-10 wins this season. Without fixing this, we won't get any further than 8 wins a season. Throwing talented kids out on the park is only going to improve us marginally, because if you don't have the will to win, you won't win unless your opposition is very poor, or similarly not switched on.

The thought seems to be that we fix this by changing over our list, because most of the guys we acquired prior to Roos were soft or have had their confidence irreparably damaged. I don't agree with this. I think there's a systemic issue with laziness and acceptance that 'a bit of a try' is good enough that needs to be corrected by first admitting that it's there and then stamping it out with strong leadership.
 
I'm happy with our youth stocks. I've seen enough of Viney, Hogan, Salem, Tyson, Brayshaw, Vanders, Kent and even Petracca to judge these guys as genuine AFL level players. Some of them even have the capability of being future stars of the competition. I think ANB, Stretch, Mitch white and Oscar McDonald can be more than handy foot soldiers for the club going forward. I'm comfortable with Gawn growing into the no.1 ruck role and Tom Mac continuing his development down back.

The players, in isolation, are not the issue. Many of them are still very, very raw which should not be forgotten. What I am uncomfortable with is the environment these players are placed in. Where is the accountability for poor performances, where is the demand for excellence? I am wondering if the club is so concerned about the mental fragility of the players after the dark neeld regime, that they are afraid of doling out any form of tough love or a good old fashioned bake when at many times this year, it has damn well been required. The last month has been insulting to the fans, both in the way we have played and the 'positive spin' that has come about as a result. These results have been disgusting and the club must treat them as such.

A positive shift in the club's mindset and communication with the supporters this year has been the outlining of the clubs intent to 'win games'. As silly as it sounds this is actually a huge step forward for a club that was just happy to aim for 'being competitive' in years gone by; a notion that I was openly critical of even as far back as the Bailey years. The target of playing a final next year might look ludicrous after recent results but it was absolutely the right call to make. It is a healthy kind of pressure to have. My concern is that there is no such pressure on Roos. Hes gone after 2016 whether he succeeds or fails in this regard. Likewise Goodwin will be there in 2017 even if he does not pull his weight next year. Do the players have a similar attitude I wonder. Where is the pressure coming from for them?

We need to build winners, we need to set the bar high. To do this we need all hands on deck. From 2016 it is all in or all out. If Roosy has even one eye on Hawaii next year, Palm the job to Goodwin and roosy can take a backseat for the year. I view this previous two years under Roos as mending bridges, getting actual talent into the club and generally making the players feel loved again. This has an expiry date. From preseason 2016, it should be cattle prods, honest truths and accountability. If noses get out put out of joint among the players and even the coaches , then so be it. The mentally weak should get found out and chucked out.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Sir Hugh Percy said:
I like where you're coming from, and I think we can all agree that we've improved greatly over the last couple of years.

I suppose the concern I have is that our effort, commitment, drive, whatever you want to call it, is still the worst in the comp by a long way. Seriously, we've played four quarters in only 6-7 games, I reckon - wins not including Brisbane and the losses against Adelaide and Queen's Birthday. That's at least two thirds of the season we just haven't turned up for a quarter, a half, or more, and been killed during those off periods. Everybody has an off game, but that should be the anomaly, not the norm as it is with us.

This is the elephant in the room. This is the most crucial issue for us to fix. If we were just middling on this one thing, we'd probably have our 8-10 wins this season. Without fixing this, we won't get any further than 8 wins a season. Throwing talented kids out on the park is only going to improve us marginally, because if you don't have the will to win, you won't win unless your opposition is very poor, or similarly not switched on.

The thought seems to be that we fix this by changing over our list, because most of the guys we acquired prior to Roos were soft or have had their confidence irreparably damaged. I don't agree with this. I think there's a systemic issue with laziness and acceptance that 'a bit of a try' is good enough that needs to be corrected by first admitting that it's there and then stamping it out with strong leadership.
Click to expand...
My goodness I cannot agree with this more. Great post.
 
stabler said:
I'm happy with our youth stocks. I've seen enough of Viney, Hogan, Salem, Tyson, Brayshaw, Vanders, Kent and even Petracca to judge these guys as genuine AFL level players. Some of them even have the capability of being future stars of the competition. I think ANB, Stretch, Mitch white and Oscar McDonald can be more than handy foot soldiers for the club going forward. I'm comfortable with Gawn growing into the no.1 ruck role and Tom Mac continuing his development down back.

The players, in isolation, are not the issue. Many of them are still very, very raw which should not be forgotten. What I am uncomfortable with is the environment these players are placed in. Where is the accountability for poor performances, where is the demand for excellence? I am wondering if the club is so concerned about the mental fragility of the players after the dark neeld regime, that they are afraid of doling out any form of tough love or a good old fashioned bake when at many times this year, it has damn well been required. The last month has been insulting to the fans, both in the way we have played and the 'positive spin' that has come about as a result. These results have been disgusting and the club must treat them as such.

A positive shift in the club's mindset and communication with the supporters this year has been the outlining of the clubs intent to 'win games'. As silly as it sounds this is actually a huge step forward for a club that was just happy to aim for 'being competitive' in years gone by; a notion that I was openly critical of even as far back as the Bailey years. The target of playing a final next year might look ludicrous after recent results but it was absolutely the right call to make. It is a healthy kind of pressure to have. My concern is that there is no such pressure on Roos. Hes gone after 2016 whether he succeeds or fails in this regard. Likewise Goodwin will be there in 2017 even if he does not pull his weight next year. Do the players have a similar attitude I wonder. Where is the pressure coming from for them?

We need to build winners, we need to set the bar high. To do this we need all hands on deck. From 2016 it is all in or all out. If Roosy has even one eye on Hawaii next year, Palm the job to Goodwin and roosy can take a backseat for the year. I view this previous two years under Roos as mending bridges, getting actual talent into the club and generally making the players feel loved again. This has an expiry date. From preseason 2016, it should be cattle prods, honest truths and accountability. If noses get out put out of joint among the players and even the coaches , then so be it. The mentally weak should get found out and chucked out.
Click to expand...
I like it stabler. You and sir high phercy need to get down to the club and spread some of your mantra.

s**t, sign me up to your news letter.
 
On the Roosy-Goodwin thing...I'm putting money on Roosy 'coaching' from the bench from about round 14. He won't actually be coaching in a tactical sense. Goodwin will be.
 
stretcharmstrong said:
I like it stabler. You and sir high phercy need to get down to the club and spread some of your mantra.

s**t, sign me up to your news letter.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear. But were we are concerned you can leave the cattle prods at home please. :eek:
 
mrmonkey said:
I would love Monty to run the club, does anything to win, then again I remember 8 misfortunes.
Click to expand...
Jones! I thought i told you to shave those sideburns!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Scythe94
Player Watch #12: Lachie Hunter – one of our best value trades ever?
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
143
Views
10K
Scythe94
Scythe94
Crimson Azure
Review GBF - Dees v Bears - Where is biff?
2 3 4 5
Replies
101
Views
3K
TheBoss
TheBoss
FootyGuy13
  • Poll
Strategy 2024 | Let's Construct Our Best 22 | Part 4: Interchange
Replies
7
Views
897
booshboy
booshboy
Toump Ass
Is there gonna be a gameday thread today?
Replies
7
Views
519
LeverPuller
LeverPuller
FootyGuy13
  • Poll
Strategy 2024 | Let's Construct Our Best 22 | Part 3: Forwards
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
Crusty Demon
Crusty Demon
FootyGuy13
  • Poll
Strategy 2024 | Let's Construct Our Best 22 | Part 2: Defenders
Replies
8
Views
1K
Topkent
Topkent
FootyGuy13
  • Poll
Strategy 2024 | Let's Construct Our Best 22 | Part 1: Midfielders
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
rocker_oz33
rocker_oz33

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top