Abortion

[Slax]

Just as it should be a doctors right to refuse to deal with morons like a lot of these women are.

I have no problem, but the doctor must declare there openly that they are either pro or anti-aboriton. If they do this then I have no problem, but if they don't and then don't refer women on the should be stuck of the list by the AMA (that's never going to happen considering their track record) and made liable for the full costs of the pregnancy.

Like anything else in life if the consumer/client/patient is provided with the relevant information to make an informed choice about who to get the right professional advice from then it is on their head. But if they aren't provided with that information or those professionals don't want to advise them of their ability to provide that information then the law needs to step in and demand it.

Either the current practice stands or doctors are required to state there position on abortion openly to all patients prior to consultation. But if we go with the latter then the doctors need to be told legally they will be liable if they fail to state their stance on the issue and a woman carries a pregnancy she would of chosen to terminate if given the option, get one doctor sued and they'll all state their position openly because they won't want to incur that malpractice suit.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Just as it should be a doctors right to refuse to deal with morons like a lot of these women are.

Catholic contempt for women runs down.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Just as it should be a doctors right to refuse to deal with morons like a lot of these women are.

No it shouldn't, a doctor does not have the right to wave their duty of care to their patient for personal beliefs. It's not on if it means that much to find another profession.

 

[Gus Poyet]

No it shouldn't, a doctor does not have the right to wave their duty of care to their patient for personal beliefs. It's not on if it means that much to find another profession.

Yes they do.

If they are able to wave patient-doctor confidentiality on their discretion they can sure as hell decide who they deal with in their own practice.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

It wouldn't be hard if we trained enough doctors. Unfortunately doctors earn 3x what they should and don't feel the need to leave the comfort of big cities.

This is a myth.

Specialists, surgeons, senior staff and those in private practices can earn a fair amount, however this isn't the US.

Of all professions, you also pick the wrong one to complain about pay.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

An anonymous online survey of 1050 "Australians" out of a population of 22 million people isn't any kind of proof of an overwhelming shared opinion of a nation.

Do you know how easy it is to rig online survey figures?

1050 is an adequate sampling size, considering they have used stratified random sampling to control for potential confounding variables.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

13% of australian women still amounts to almost 1.5 million...I'd call that 'plenty'...or at least a significant subset.

Given "women" refers to people 18 and over, the number would likely be significantly smaller.

 

[Power Raid]

This is a myth.

Specialists, surgeons, senior staff and those in private practices can earn a fair amount, however this isn't the US.

Of all professions, you also pick the wrong one to complain about pay.

I am opening up a chain of no gap clinics in WA and I can confirm they get paid 3x more than they should

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I am opening up a chain of no gap clinics in WA and I can confirm they get paid 3x more than they should

Anecdotal personal evidence, where there is a vested interest is hardly compelling. In fact the exact opposite.

Health is the one area where high pay is almost unconditionally justified.

Higher pay equals better candidates. Demand drives up wages. They are also reaping the benefit of the considerable investment they have placed in their own education, often at significant financial and personal cost.

Australia has exceptional clinical outcomes, the pay scales are well justified and in some cases could be higher.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Yes they do.

If they are able to wave patient-doctor confidentiality on their discretion they can sure as hell decide who they deal with in their own practice.

There's rules and guidelines for disclosing personal information, that strictly limit when and what information can be disclosed and under what circumstances.

As set out by the AMA, breaching them can result in a doctor's licence being revoked.

No matter how you try and spin it a doctor has a duty of care to act in the best interest of their patient, those that fail to do this aren't fit to be doctor's.

The current laws reflect This. This is why a doctor must at the very least refer someone to a more competent doctor in cases where they are so unprofessional, that they allow personal feelings to get in the way of providing sound medical advice to there patients.

Your trying to justify a change in the law which would provide incompetent doctors an excuse not to provide proper medical advice and services to patients.

 

[Gus Poyet]

There's rules and guidelines for disclosing personal information, that strictly limit when and what information can be disclosed and under what circumstances.

As set out by the AMA, breaching them can result in a doctor's licence being revoked.

No matter how you try and spin it a doctor has a duty of care to act in the best interest of their patient, those that fail to do this aren't fit to be doctor's.

The current laws reflect This. This is why a doctor must at the very least refer someone to a more competent doctor in cases where they are so unprofessional, that they allow personal feelings to get in the way of providing sound medical advice to there patients.

Your trying to justify a change in the law which would provide incompetent doctors an excuse not to provide proper medical advice and services to patients.

The laws reflect that doctors have discretion in regards to their patients.

As i've said, it's as simple as the woman ringing up the practice and asking do they deal with abortions. Job done.

Stop placing the duty of care onto others and place it back on the people who cause the problem in the first place.

 

[AM]

The laws reflect that doctors have discretion in regards to their patients.

As i've said, it's as simple as the woman ringing up the practice and asking do they deal with abortions. Job done.

Stop placing the duty of care onto others and place it back on the people who cause the problem in the first place.

"...cause the problem......" Give me breath!

 

[Gus Poyet]

"...cause the problem......" Give me breath!

What? You don't think a lot of abortions are undertaken by women whose only excuse for getting knocked up is becuase they were morons?

Get a bit pissed, have a quick * in a club toilet, down a lane, in the back of a car, one night stands.

Yes, plenty of them DO cause the situation they are in.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

If they do this then I have no problem, but if they don't and then don't refer women on the should be stuck of the list by the AMA (that's never going to happen considering their track record) and made liable for the full costs of the pregnancy.

As set out by the AMA, breaching them can result in a doctor's licence being revoked.

Unless I'm mistaken the AMA is merely the doctors union. State/territory medical boards are who license, regulate, and "You're gawn" doctors.

 

[clogged]

I am opening up a chain of no gap clinics in WA and I can confirm they get paid 3x more than they should

What's the chain called?

 

[AM]

What? You don't think a lot of abortions are undertaken by women whose only excuse for getting knocked up is becuase they were morons?

Get a bit pissed, have a quick **** in a club toilet, down a lane, in the back of a car, one night stands.

Yes, plenty of them DO cause the situation they are in.

What I think is you are very good at generalisations, employing emotive language and offering simplistic answers to a complex issue.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

The laws reflect that doctors have discretion in regards to their patients.

As i've said, it's as simple as the woman ringing up the practice and asking do they deal with abortions. Job done.

Stop placing the duty of care onto others and place it back on the people who cause the problem in the first place.

You don't actually understand what a doctor's duty of care is do you?

Taking responsibility is a key part of being a doctor, people place their welbeing in the hands of a doctor.
When you enter the field of medicine you do so knowing and accepting that, that person is putting their faith in you and your abilities and you owe it to them and the rest of the medical community to ensure that faith is not misguided.

Practicing medicine is not a job, you don't get to pick and choose it's a vocation, a way of life. You don't leave work for the day and just become Mr hosapipapattlepop your Dr hosapipapattlepop all day every day until you retire.

What your suggesting undermines the very foundation of western medicine.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Unless I'm mistaken the AMA is merely the doctors union. State/territory medical boards are who license, regulate, and "You're gawn" doctors.

It's not merely a union, the AMA is the most powerful union in the country.

You cannot practice medicine in Australia without the endorsement of the AMA the AMB can and has banned medical practitioners from practicing medicine based solely on the recommendation of the AMA, Membership is compulsory.

 

[Gus Poyet]

What I think is you are very good at generalisations, employing emotive language and offering simplistic answers to a complex issue.

No, what I'm good at taking responsibilities for my own actions. Not making piss weak excuses for supposed grown adults.

So do tell me, what are the percentiles of those who get abortions? It's something that never seems to be provided. Are we suggesting the vast majority are rape victims or children diagnosed with horid medical conditions?

What about the percentile that falls into the irresponsible idiots section? I mean if you drink and drive apparently you're a bloody idiot, if you get pissed and get knocked does the same apply?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

No, what I'm good at taking responsibilities for my own actions. Not making piss weak excuses for supposed grown adults.

So do tell me, what are the percentiles of those who get abortions? It's something that never seems to be provided. Are we suggesting the vast majority are rape victims or children diagnosed with horid medical conditions?

What about the percentile that falls into the irresponsible idiots section? I mean if you drink and drive apparently you're a bloody idiot, if you get pissed and get knocked does the same apply?

Either way a doctor's job is to fix the damage, you'll never hear a doctor say "sorry I won't set your arm in a cast because you shouldn't have been driving whilst pissed."

 

[Power Raid]

What's the chain called?

They will go by a local name identifying each clinic rather than a brand. The first which will open in 2014 currently has the aspiring name of Pier Street Surgery.

The whole concept is not for profit

 

[Gus Poyet]

Practicing medicine is not a job, you don't get to pick and choose it's a vocation, a way of life. You don't leave work for the day and just become Mr hosapipapattlepop your Dr hosapipapattlepop all day every day until you retire.

What your suggesting undermines the very foundation of western medicine.

The foundation of western medicine in which the hippocratic oath played a big part?

I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.

Many Doctors still take the hippocratic oath.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Either way a doctor's job is to fix the damage, you'll never hear a doctor say "sorry I won't set your arm in a cast because you shouldn't have been driving whilst pissed."

Obviously to many Doctors a healthy foetus doesn't need "fixing". They will assist in its growth, not in its destruction. Thus it cannot be compared to a broken arm.

 

[Power Raid]

Anecdotal personal evidence, where there is a vested interest is hardly compelling. In fact the exact opposite.

Health is the one area where high pay is almost unconditionally justified.

Higher pay equals better candidates. Demand drives up wages. They are also reaping the benefit of the considerable investment they have placed in their own education, often at significant financial and personal cost.

Australia has exceptional clinical outcomes, the pay scales are well justified and in some cases could be higher.

no

there is a thing called the AMA which controls the supply of new doctors and thus controls the market price


we could have better candidates, better trained doctors and better job satisfaction for doctors with a better system. Doctor suicide rates says something is wrong.

Designed by men, for men and more than that....rich men. it is a system outdated with buying a officer rank in the military.

 

[MrCharisma]

A man doesn't take resposnsibility for a pregnancy he's a bad man according to society.
A woman doesn't take responsibility for it and she gets off with the it's her body bullshit line.

Agreed. Two people are responsible for the creation of life.

No matter how responsible the man, we still think that an irresponsible womans judgement should be put before it.

I have no doubt if she was a single woman and she got knocked up
she'd not consider terminating another life just because she stuffed up.

What? You don't think a lot of abortions are undertaken by
women whose only excuse for getting knocked up is becuase they were morons? Get a bit pissed, have a quick **** in a club toilet, down a lane...

I like how you insist a man is equally responsible for a pregnancy and harp on about equal say and all that crap when it comes to partnerships. Then, when it comes to unplanned pregnancies, all of a sudden the tone changes, and it's the 'moronic woman's fault, she stuffed up 'etc with no mention of the man, as though now, it is wholly the woman's responsibility.