Toast Cerra - Rising Star

[theGav56]

I think footballers are less like "workers" and more like sub-contractors. They are a mini business in their own right contracting out their services, and not always to the highest bidder. Players like Fyfe clearly have their own "brand", and it is something they can take with them beyond their footballing careers. If they disrespect that contract it damages their brand (Cousins and Sylvia come to mind). Weller has done that to a limited extent, and needs to rebuild over on the GC. He'd built a personal following here and had the opportunity to become a club leader, but decided to take his business elsewhere.

 

[DMan 11]

I think footballers are less like "workers" and more like sub-contractors. They are a mini business in their own right contracting out their services, and not always to the highest bidder. Players like Fyfe clearly have their own "brand", and it is something they can take with them beyond their footballing careers. If they disrespect that contract it damages their brand (Cousins and Sylvia come to mind). Weller has done that to a limited extent, and needs to rebuild over on the GC. He'd built a personal following here and had the opportunity to become a club leader, but decided to take his business elsewhere.

Agree with this. Team sport and all, but from a career perspective they are one step removed from the club and will always have personal interest at the fore. How they manage this early may influence their contract negotiations later in their career.

 

[Purple Jesus]

yikes
I'm also a business owner, but you and I have polar opposite opinions of people as a resource. I'm speechless.

My staff have no complaints, they are rewarded when they do their jobs but the business goals always come first. 'loyalty' doesn't come into it. Use your words mate.

 

[trentjac]

Should rename thread to "your thoughts on whether i am a good employer or not?....discuss"

 

[Purple Jesus]

Should rename thread to "your thoughts on whether i am a good employer or not?....discuss"

Slightly derailed eh? Good to quickly pass judgement though given no facts whatsoever.

 

[mattis117]

That's just tough t***ies though. The players aren't slaves, they should have a right to work where they want, just like anyone else.

We don't often agree on much in terms of Football, but I am 100% on the same page here. AFL players should treat life exactly the same way that we all do when it comes to employment. If you have a better offer, you take it. You have a limited time to do this thing you love, so make sure you have the best possible time doing it.

 

[trentjac]

Slightly derailed eh? Good to quickly pass judgement though given no facts whatsoever.

it's always so much fun

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Where draftees only get 2 year contracts... yeah it does. I mean as is the system only works because that loyalty does generally (Rayner, Brayshaw,Naughton etc all signing on) exist. If clubs just started losing their top picks to whatever state they came from after only a year or two we'd all be in a bit of trouble.

For me that's a great reason for allowing clubs to run their own academies: so they can have some level of agency in the development of their talent pipeline.

An open, unfettered draft would work better if talent and club success was evenly distributed across the country.

But its not. So now we have a system that was originally designed to deal with a particular set of circumstances in Victoria in the 1980s applied to teams across the nation in the 2010s. There is no wonder its not perfect

 

[Paracleet]

For me that's a great reason for allowing clubs to run their own academies: so they can have some level of agency in the development of their talent pipeline.

An open, unfettered draft would work better if talent and club success was evenly distributed across the country.

But its not. So now we have a system that was originally designed to deal with a particular set of circumstances in Victoria in the 1980s applied to teams across the nation in the 2010s. There is no wonder its not perfect

There are billion issues with the current set up:
- There are more Victorian clubs than the pool percentage of Victorian players (55% v 50%). This wouldn't matter but they are the ones that insisted on expanding into non-AFL dominant states who require a large percentage of non local players to make up their lists.
- The salary cap is too small to make moving attractive for 'average' players unless its a choice between that and delistment. It also means clubs can't afford to offer a significant enough premium over and above what they would get paid in Melbourne, particularly since there are a further 9 clubs there who might match your bid.
- Victoria has half the players, slightly more than half the clubs but nearly 100% of the media and political power.

If it was about 'the game' they would have ensured they had less than half the clubs and devolved some of their decision making. Instead expanding (I mean since the 80's not GC and GWS) was really about the money and the prestige of being national for what is still the VFL. This can be seen by the fact that they keep the busted arse minnow Vic clubs in the comp (who would have to fold if the salary cap was raised as the level of subsidy* they would require would be unsustainable) and the fact the rest of us get treated as an inconvenience to be ignored if at all possible.

*Obviously 3 of the 4 northern clubs require subsidy; but they actually contribute value by increasing the size of the broadcast rights. Your Saint Kildas / North Melbournes / Footscarys etc. contribute precisely nil to this.

/disjointed rant

 

[Rion]

We don't often agree on much in terms of Football, but I am 100% on the same page here. AFL players should treat life exactly the same way that we all do when it comes to employment. If you have a better offer, you take it. You have a limited time to do this thing you love, so make sure you have the best possible time doing it.

That way of thinking isn't really conducive to a competitive league though is it? I think the difference I see between AFL and regular employment is that the only reason anyone gets payed at all is because of us, the fans. Hence they've got a bit of responsibility to make the league watchable (and not just abandon interstate teams in their first few years).

The draft is an equalization measure but it only works if the players you draft with those high picks stay around. Maybe that's a bit unfair on the players but they certainly aren't forced into this life and 6-7 years in Perth before going back home to Melbourne isn't exactly the worst life you could live.

 

[mattis117]

That way of thinking isn't really conducive to a competitive league though is it? I think the difference I see between AFL and regular employment is that the only reason anyone gets payed at all is because of us, the fans. Hence they've got a bit of responsibility to make the league watchable (and not just abandon interstate teams in their first few years).

The draft is an equalization measure but it only works if the players you draft with those high picks stay around. Maybe that's a bit unfair on the players but they certainly aren't forced into this life and 6-7 years in Perth before going back home to Melbourne isn't exactly the worst life you could live.

I don't agree. It is the AFL's responsibility, jointly with the clubs, to ensure the game is entertaining / watchable. It is not, and should not be the players' responsibility.

 

[ydraw]

That way of thinking isn't really conducive to a competitive league though is it? I think the difference I see between AFL and regular employment is that the only reason anyone gets payed at all is because of us, the fans. Hence they've got a bit of responsibility to make the league watchable (and not just abandon interstate teams in their first few years).

The draft is an equalization measure but it only works if the players you draft with those high picks stay around. Maybe that's a bit unfair on the players but they certainly aren't forced into this life and 6-7 years in Perth before going back home to Melbourne isn't exactly the worst life you could live.

Maybe where you live isn't important to you, but to some people it is very important.

 

[Rion]

I don't agree. It is the AFL's responsibility, jointly with the clubs, to ensure the game is entertaining / watchable. It is not, and should not be the players' responsibility.

The players (and AFLPA) need to give up some of their power then (which they'll never do). Extending the contract for first year draftees to 4 years and/or enabling clubs to trade players without their say so (ala the NBA) would go some way to helping things but right now it'll never happen because the AFLPA has to sign off on it.

Maybe where you live isn't important to you, but to some people it is very important.

This isn't forced labour though. I like living where I am but if I've got the opportunity to make 300,000+ living in Adelaide for 5 years I might just be able to cope with it.

 

[mattis117]

The players (and AFLPA) need to give up some of their power then (which they'll never do). Extending the contract for first year draftees to 4 years and/or enabling clubs to trade players without their say so (ala the NBA) would go some way to helping things but right now it'll never happen because the AFLPA has to sign off on it.



This isn't forced labour though. I like living where I am but if I've got the opportunity to make 300,000+ living in Adelaide for 5 years I might just be able to cope with it.

That seems like a bit of a catch 22 - what if you get a dud on a 4 year contract?

 

[Taylor]

Players in the NBA average $6,400,000 a year.
$123,000 a week.

The median house price there is about $200,000.

So they can buy a new place in their new home city for two to four weeks pay.

It's a bit different when the AFL average in a year wouldn't buy a home here.

 

[Rion]

That seems like a bit of a catch 22 - what if you get a dud on a 4 year contract?

Do any first rounders ever get cut in 4 years?

 

[Yeti]

Do any first rounders ever get cut in 4 years?

Only Carlton first rounders....

 

[ydraw]

This isn't forced labour though. I like living where I am but if I've got the opportunity to make 300,000+ living in Adelaide for 5 years I might just be able to cope with it.

Would you take it though if you could also make the same amount of money without moving at all?

 

[wayToGo_]

Only Carlton first rounders....

After they get a Rising Star nomination that is.

Plenty of GWS first rounders may not get delisted within 4 years but they end up at Carlton which is equally deflating.

 

[Steinfreo]

I think you guys are overstating how much power players have. Players go where they are told, this isnt like other sports where you have true ownership its more like we are the purple fremantle nandos and melbourne and the blue and red nandos. Look at ablett and franklin. historical trades that occured on the whim of the afl. If a trade is in the works that the afl doesnt like the optics they squash it. Thats the impression i get anyway maybe im totally wrong.

 

[eastfreo75]

Do any first rounders ever get cut in 4 years?

In the NBA, the teams have the rights for 4 years and can cut at any time.

In the AFL, the majority of players are on a list for a least 4 years.

My idea for the AFL, is 4 years for a top 10 player, and 3 years for the rest.

The player association may kick up and AFL should compose to make it 3 years for a first rounder and then 2 years for the rest.

 

[Taylor]

The AFLPA would be fine with 4 years for first round picks as long as the players aren't on their base rate for all four years.

A solution for both parties would be that the 3rd and 4th years are paid at twice the first two, which is about $200,000 playing most games in that time, and if a club wants to renegotiate that deal they shouldn't be restricted as the rules currently do not allow any alterations to the contract terms for the first two years of a draftee's career.

That would allow those players doing well to be rewarded in year three and four, potentially adding on more years, as well as not punish the clubs holding players for two extra years that might not warrant a list place.

$100,000 base rate + match fees + games total bonus for 1st and 2nd year
$200,000 base rate + double match fees + double games total bonus for 3rd and 4th year (unless negotiated otherwise)

 

[Bicco]

We don't often agree on much in terms of Football, but I am 100% on the same page here. AFL players should treat life exactly the same way that we all do when it comes to employment. If you have a better offer, you take it. You have a limited time to do this thing you love, so make sure you have the best possible time doing it.

That knife cuts both ways though. If a club isnt happy with your performance, can they just cut you from the list? Should there be a mimimum pay/contract?
The game is built on equalization ideals (some might say communist) and for all intents and purposes, it works.
The end result of 'free trade' is that a few (Man U, Barcelona) dominate and the rest make up the numbers.
It happens everywhere. Banks, Airlines, Supermarkets, Petrol stations, whatever.
A little bit of free trade came to the AFL and Hawthorn clearly benefited.
If a tight reign needs to be kept on both payments and player movements otherwise it will change the fabric of the game.

 

[manpurple]

Whilst I understand that the players believe that they have a right to go where they desire. I think that most proposals push this too far.

We want an even competition. As it is we already see some gutting of the lower performing teams which only means that more players leave and those teams remain in the bottom.

That being said you need to allow the cream to rise and we cannot hold teams hands forever.

Consequently I would suggest the following;
FA and RFA remain the same number of years
DFA and FA may move without restriction
RFA players may select a target state but not a target club
Players not qualifying as a FA must select a minimum of 4 target teams if their target state has less
Those changing clubs may then work with their current team to negotiate a mutually beneficial trade.
Players may not require terms of one club they don’t require of others, not to say the effect must be equal (eg. all flights in business class means different things for WA teams and Vic teams)
Starting contracts for 3 years minimum. 4 years for all first round picks.



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[raffrox]

Slightly derailed eh? Good to quickly pass judgement though given no facts whatsoever.

Welcome to the internet and you're most probably not doing yourself any favours.

My favourite parts are the ones where you're talking like you're 100% right and everyone else is deluded.

It's fine to have an opinion but it's an unfortunate one from my point of view and that way of working is turning into a human disaster in some sectors.