Player Watch #5: Brandon Ellis - off to GC pick 39 as compo

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This Is Anfield said:
Absolutely, Shane Edwards has become an A Grade star, however, he played a completely different role to Ellis/McIntosh etc in the 2017 finals series.
If players like Brandon, that are bottom 6 players in your eyes, play consistent 6/7 games in finals then we are going to win far more than we lose.
This is our great strength and what makes us a pretty good TEAM.
Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Grimes, Reiwoldt, Edwards, Lynch, Prestia, Vlaustin and Lambert are elite or A Grade, Ellis, Nankervis, Astbury, Rioli, Castagna, Short, McIntosh, Caddy, Broad, Graham, Soldo are all solid B Graders with moments of A Grade performance and Higgins, Stack, Chol, Ross, Bolton, Baker etc are all exciting prospects that can be anything.
If that middle group all play 6/7 games then we will s**t in the flag... IMHO.
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In the bolded group, you've listed a bunch of guys that have played around 50 games or less, plus Astbury (KPD), Caddy (who had a much bigger impact than Ellis) and McIntosh who isn't even in the team. Ellis has played 170+ games and plays midfield, he should be having far more impact that lock down defenders, small forwards and <50 gamers.

If you're happy to accept a 170 game veteran and senior player is only going to be good for a 6/10 game is finals then we'll just have to disagree cos I think we should be striving for better.
 
TigerImposter said:
I’m sorry nobody hates him so get this childish thought out of your head. I actually admire him considering he’s an average player and he’s achieved a premiership medal 🏅 for the greatest club on Earth. I think it’s more the hate you hold against posters who express an opinion contrary to yours.
We can discuss him without this immaturity use of words such as Hate.
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Exactly

I wish him all the best at Carlton and im sure the payer we will get with the compo pick will become a gun and we will all love him like we do with CCJ & Balta
 

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In last year's GF (which I reckon is the best game I've seen for many years), West Coast had players like Masten, Schofield, Jetta. They even had Barass, who I wouldn't let near a football field after his game on the weekend. They weren't all great stars.

You can't have 18 superstars - there's a salary cap. So what you need is filler - players who do a job reasonably well, play a role and importantly - fit the team structure. Some gap-fillers can go on to play 250-300 games. They're not the superstars, and they lose a few contests (as do the superstars sometimes).
 
tropicaltiger said:
significant is a word i did not use, you must have missed my point coz the lynch lunge was desperate, the jack goal was the joyful finish, but ellis swooping up a spinning shank and the feed off to jack in one clean fast movement with split second timing to allow jack to quickly slam on his boot was the highlight for me. it was not as regulation given the situation.
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Well we see that very differently, through very different prisms I might add. Had Lynch not been so desperate we wouldn't have had anything to talk about, Nelson more than likely kicks well over the head of Ellis between kicks. Use all the adjectives you like, had Ellis messed that regulation collect and handball you would have had a lot more to discuss. He executed it and we are all grateful it made it to Reiwoldt who jagged the match winning goal. All three components were utterly necessary for the goal to happen. I know with my lesser skill set, of those three excecuted, which one I would have rather been responsible for. It doesn't lessen Ellis in that moment, if you go back and read I simply laughed when Bazzar claimed it for Ellis the way he did. It was typical Bazzar on this thread and good luck to him. So save your adjectives for a better cause, you might need them soon with finals coming. ;)
 
Wallaby said:
In last year's GF (which I reckon is the best game I've seen for many years), West Coast had players like Masten, Schofield, Jetta. They even had Barass, who I wouldn't let near a football field after his game on the weekend. They weren't all great stars.

You can't have 18 superstars - there's a salary cap. So what you need is filler - players who do a job reasonably well, play a role and importantly - fit the team structure. Some gap-fillers can go on to play 250-300 games. They're not the superstars, and they lose a few contests (as do the superstars sometimes).
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Couldn't agree more - the name Martin Pike comes to mind
 
Madison said:
In the bolded group, you've listed a bunch of guys that have played around 50 games or less, plus Astbury (KPD), Caddy (who had a much bigger impact than Ellis) and McIntosh who isn't even in the team. Ellis has played 170+ games and plays midfield, he should be having far more impact that lock down defenders, small forwards and <50 gamers.

If you're happy to accept a 170 game veteran and senior player is only going to be good for a 6/10 game is finals then we'll just have to disagree cos I think we should be striving for better.
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So, in this era of salary cap and draft you think that we should have more than ten A Graders???
You also missed the whole premise of my post... disappointing.
 
This Is Anfield said:
So, in this era of salary cap and draft you think that we should have more than ten A Graders???
You also missed the whole premise of my post... disappointing.
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Well how you label them is semantics really. I think teams challenging for flags are going to have more high end talent than other teams no matter what the salary cap.

The premise of your post was that the group of players you bolded you said were guys that we should be happy with playing a 6/10 game in finals cos they are b graders. Though they all looked for more like role players, but again that's semantics.

The only issue is in 2017 when Ellis was a 150 game player, the guys you compared him to were Broad (had played about 20 games), Rioli (35 or so), Castagna (25), Graham (5 games), Soldo (to this day has only played about 20), Short (didn't play finals but at that time was a veteran of 30 games), Astbury (pretty disingenuous including him here IMO as he is a lot better than the company and played as a lock down KPD), Caddy (who as I posted earlier in this thread had a much better finals campaign mostly playing as an undersized KPF) and Nank (who'd played about 30 games to that point and still had a much better finals series).

So if you're happy that Ellis at 150 (now 170 games) can only be expected to contribute as much as a group of inexperienced kids then we'll just have to agree to disagree cos I expect more from our veteran players. He barely contributed and that's why I'd rather a kid in (like Stack, Ross etc) who can be expected to have the same impact as all the other <50 gamers but might also prove to be a lot lot better.
 
This Is Anfield said:
So, in this era of salary cap and draft you think that we should have more than ten A Graders???
You also missed the whole premise of my post... disappointing.
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I think the only way you get 10 A graders these days is to be hopelessly bottom for a few years and not cheat (I'm looking at you Carlton) or be a new fledgling Club. A few incredible drafts might get you close, but it would have to be amazing selection and development (still looking at you Carlton and shaking my head).
 
Phar Ace said:
Couldn't agree more - the name Martin Pike comes to mind
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Martin Pike was an absolute brutal footballer and one of those great club men who would put his body on the line for the team every single week. He was adored by teammates coaches and fans for his acts and dedication to the team for the hits he made and copped. Brilliant white line fever footballer and the closest we have to him is KMac.
He was more than the average role player like Brando as he brought mongrel and grunt to the table with a touch of class when he needed to deliver under pressure. I think he played in four premierships at the highest level and everyone of them with the same ferocity. Underrated by opponents, but not by coaches.

Martin Pike (Australian footballer) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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TigerImposter said:
Martin Pike was an absolute brutal footballer and one of those great club men who would put his body on the line for the team every single week. He was adored by teammates coaches and fans for his acts and dedication to the team for the hits he made and copped. Brilliant white line fever footballer and the closest we have to him is KMac.
He was more than the average role player like Brando as he brought mongrel and grunt to the table with a touch of class when he needed to deliver under pressure. I think he played in four premierships at the highest level and everyone of them with the same ferocity. Underrated by opponents, but not by coaches.
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Oh I know he doesn't compare to Ellis in the courage and stupidity sense (may get a bit closer on the latter - you know what I mean). Pike was liked for that very reason and why he got gigs at North and Brisbane (Fitzroy were just happy to get anyone at the stage and Melbourne thought he'd never win them a flag 🤣 ). Four Premierships, I think two losing GF's as well and probably 3 Prelims. Now I know you are not going to like me for this, but his statistical figures were not really any better than our good mate Ellis in finals, but his intimidation is what you bring a player like him across the line for. Had a great spearing pass, unlike Ellis's up and unders. Incredibly different players but both Role Players you have around on reasonable coin to fill a need.
 
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David_Full said:
If Bradley Hill is being offered 800k-900k what what would the offers be for Brandon Ellis considering he cost you nothing pick wise? 650-700k?
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I'd be surprised if he didn't field offers of $2m for 4 years at least. Beauty lies in the eyes of the beer holder though.
 

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As others have said Ellis was good on the weekend, well his last half was he was not prominent early. The problem I have with Ellis is that he fills a role that we don't have at the moment, a good gut runner that doesn't often stuff up. But if you compare him to our other veterans, even just those in the backline, Vlaustin, Grimes, Houli, Asbury, he is not half the player they are. And by 170+ games he should be.
So right now he is our best winger, but that is unfortunate because good wingers are such a bonus to a side.

And those who say, did you see that tackle or did you see him put his body on the line, well those blokes I mentioned earlier, and you can add every other 100+ game player in our side, do that all game every game.

Right now I want to see Ellis as our wingman heading into finals. But I would like to see the Ellis that takes the game on the game on not the safe Ellis. Hopefully his confidence will be up after a good game, because we will need the good Ellis come finals. And hopefully those who decide game plans and the like can see the worth of a wingman who can play both defensive and attacking football.
 
Grrr said:
As others have said Ellis was good on the weekend, well his last half was he was not prominent early. The problem I have with Ellis is that he fills a role that we don't have at the moment, a good gut runner that doesn't often stuff up. But if you compare him to our other veterans, even just those in the backline, Vlaustin, Grimes, Houli, Asbury, he is not half the player they are. And by 170+ games he should be.
So right now he is our best winger, but that is unfortunate because good wingers are such a bonus to a side.

And those who say, did you see that tackle or did you see him put his body on the line, well those blokes I mentioned earlier, and you can add every other 100+ game player in our side, do that all game every game.

Right now I want to see Ellis as our wingman heading into finals. But I would like to see the Ellis that takes the game on the game on not the safe Ellis. Hopefully his confidence will be up after a good game, because we will need the good Ellis come finals. And hopefully those who decide game plans and the like can see the worth of a wingman who can play both defensive and attacking football.
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They’re the issues I have with him and you summarised my earlier post on his game over the weekend. The same issues are still there and his only positive aggressive play was the one out of the bl late in the second. I think his role is too defensive and he looks awful when he’s beaten in it.
 
I now agree! This should be our team and it's a disgrace that it isn't:

B. Hurn Grimes Andrews
HB. Whitfield Rance Vlaustin
C. Bontompelli Martin J Kelly
HF: Dangerfield Reiwoldt J Cameron
F. C Cameron Lynch De Goey
R. Gawn Coniglio P Cripps
IC. Edwards, Grundy, J McGovern, Fyfe
Emergencies, Pendlebury, Cotchin, T Greene, T Hawkins.
 
This Is Anfield said:
I now agree! This should be our team and it's a disgrace that it isn't:

B. Hurn Grimes Andrews
HB. Whitfield Rance Vlaustin
C. Bontompelli Martin J Kelly
HF: Dangerfield Reiwoldt J Cameron
F. C Cameron Lynch De Goey
R. Gawn Coniglio P Cripps
IC. Edwards, Grundy, J McGovern, Fyfe
Emergencies, Pendlebury, Cotchin, T Greene, T Hawkins.
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A bit tough leaving out your mate Corey The Silky Butterfly Ellis!
 
This Is Anfield said:
I now agree! This should be our team and it's a disgrace that it isn't:

B. Hurn Grimes Andrews
HB. Whitfield Rance Vlaustin
C. Bontompelli Martin J Kelly
HF: Dangerfield Reiwoldt J Cameron
F. C Cameron Lynch De Goey
R. Gawn Coniglio P Cripps
IC. Edwards, Grundy, J McGovern, Fyfe
Emergencies, Pendlebury, Cotchin, T Greene, T Hawkins.
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Nice spine at least:p
 
This Is Anfield said:
I now agree! This should be our team and it's a disgrace that it isn't:

B. Hurn Grimes Andrews
HB. Whitfield Rance Vlaustin
C. Bontompelli Martin J Kelly
HF: Dangerfield Reiwoldt J Cameron
F. C Cameron Lynch De Goey
R. Gawn Coniglio P Cripps
IC. Edwards, Grundy, J McGovern, Fyfe
Emergencies, Pendlebury, Cotchin, T Greene, T Hawkins.
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And this, everybody, is the definition of a straw man argument. Used when you can’t rebut my actual point (in which I was perfectly reasonable and civil) and so you need to pretend I’m making a different argument that you can make out is ridiculous.
 
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