Favourite Story From History

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Striker475 said:
The retreat from Gallipoli always gets me. Months of combat and one side retreats completely in one night with no losses? Unheard of.
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The whole campaign was a balls up and a waste of life. so many stupid decisions taken from the top down. The story of the retreat is only an attempt to save face and divert attention away from what was a huge defeat. if you know anything about the turkish leader at the time, he probably let them go because already enough had died and there was no reason for anymore.
 
little graham said:
The whole campaign was a balls up and a waste of life. so many stupid decisions taken from the top down. The story of the retreat is only an attempt to save face and divert attention away from what was a huge defeat. if you know anything about the turkish leader at the time, he probably let them go because already enough had died and there was no reason for anymore.
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Kemal?

Von Sanders was still in command of the forces stationed on the peninsular.
 
Kangaroos4eva said:
Kemal?
.
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Thats the guy. They would of had an inkling something was up. when an army has purpose, their is a movement about them you cant replicate. Turkish intelligence would of picked up on the lack of it. It was a waste of Turkish lives to chase us into the sea. They had lost enough. They understood our role. in away many will never credit them for, because they refuse to recognize it themselves. Their only crime was seeking diplomatic relations with everyone in the interests of economic prosperity and peace. We brought hell to their country because of it.
 

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Not quite. The leaders of Turkey at the time were the 3 Pashas. Mustafa Kemal was a front line commander at Gallipoli (probably the most important man on the spot), but he was 'just obeying orders'.

Turkey had clearly allied themselves to Germany leading up to WW1. Germany had become Turkey's main ally in the previous years, deposing Britain as the major European influence. Despite this Turkey had a public stance of neutrality, which was extremely significant for the British, French and Russian forces (the Russian Black Sea fleet could pass through the Dardanelles to the Mediterranean - remember, Italy was at that time loosely aligned with Germany and Austria).

It was actually the German Naval forces (in Constantinople) who forced the Turks to close the Dardanelles to all shipping. The German navy then sailed through the Dardanelles into the Black Sea and attacked the Russian fleet. At that point the Brits, French and Russians demanded that, if Turkey wanted to remain neutral, they should expel the Germans. Or they could join the Brits, French and Russians against the Central Powers.

Turkey officially threw their lot in with the Germans, and by November 1914 were fighting the Russians out in the Caucasus.

The idea to attack Turkey was sound (both the French and the UK had various plans). The actual execution was poor, and suffered from the same problem that has led to many stupid wars. ie: Start off with a small attack, oh, we need some more forces, oh, now the opposition is fighting harder, send in more troops, now we need more support - aargh, s**t, what are we doing here????? At least they had the sense to get out before it really escalated into another major stalemate (Russia in Afghanistan, US in Vietnam, Gulf War etc).
 
Wallaby said:
Not quite. The leaders of Turkey at the time were the 3 Pashas. Mustafa Kemal was a front line commander at Gallipoli (probably the most important man on the spot), but he was 'just obeying orders'.

Turkey had clearly allied themselves to Germany leading up to WW1. Germany had become Turkey's main ally in the previous years, deposing Britain as the major European influence. Despite this Turkey had a public stance of neutrality, which was extremely significant for the British, French and Russian forces (the Russian Black Sea fleet could pass through the Dardanelles to the Mediterranean - remember, Italy was at that time loosely aligned with Germany and Austria).

It was actually the German Naval forces (in Constantinople) who forced the Turks to close the Dardanelles to all shipping. The German navy then sailed through the Dardanelles into the Black Sea and attacked the Russian fleet. At that point the Brits, French and Russians demanded that, if Turkey wanted to remain neutral, they should expel the Germans. Or they could join the Brits, French and Russians against the Central Powers.

Turkey officially threw their lot in with the Germans, and by November 1914 were fighting the Russians out in the Caucasus.

The idea to attack Turkey was sound (both the French and the UK had various plans). The actual execution was poor, and suffered from the same problem that has led to many stupid wars. ie: Start off with a small attack, oh, we need some more forces, oh, now the opposition is fighting harder, send in more troops, now we need more support - aargh, s**t, what are we doing here????? At least they had the sense to get out before it really escalated into another major stalemate (Russia in Afghanistan, US in Vietnam, Gulf War etc).
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Its always about oil.
 
True.
The oil was in Persia (today Iraq/Iran)
The British Naval battlefleet was being switched to oil- rather than coal-fired.
The oil was brought out of Persia via the Mediterranean - via the Dardanelles. Otherwise - via the Red Sea, and the Cape of Good Hope. Much longer - more risk of raiders and submarines.

And that's why the Brits were so keen for Turkey to remain neutral or join them. That's why the Middle East became a major battleground in WW1.
 
Wallaby said:
True.
The oil was in Persia (today Iraq/Iran)
The British Naval battlefleet was being switched to oil- rather than coal-fired.
The oil was brought out of Persia via the Mediterranean - via the Dardanelles. Otherwise - via the Red Sea, and the Cape of Good Hope. Much longer - more risk of raiders and submarines.

And that's why the Brits were so keen for Turkey to remain neutral or join them. That's why the Middle East became a major battleground in WW1.
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and wasn't Turkey and Germany building a railway line to Persia?

People don't realize that when they found oil in texas, the american army invaded and took the land of all the poor people loaded with it.
 
Wallaby said:
I guess we are just lucky there's no oil in politically-sensitive areas of the world these days. Otherwise, who knows what the wealthy countries would get up to..................
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Makes you think why we go to war when this country has all the resources it needs for thousands of years. We certainly didnt go to world war two because of German war crimes, we commit many just as bad.
 
I love the Childrens' Crusade

In the 1200's kid has a dream, and Jesus visits him. He says "dude, I don't like all them mussies in the holy land. I want you to go there with a bunch of kids and make them christians"

Kid says "cool plan bro, I'm in"

Kid walks around France, telling everyone his tale. They all say "cool plan bro, I'm in" and he gathers an army of 30,000 kids

Wondering what to do next, kid gets visited by Jesus again one night. "What the * do I do now bro?" The kid asks. "Go down to Marseille and you will find ships there to take you to the holy land" Jesus tells him. "******* awesome plan mate, you rock jesus!" The kid says, and he gathers his army of children of kiddies and heads south.

When they get to Marseille, Jesus was right! There were ships there, and the captains said they would take them to the holy land. Only issue is, they lied. They killed many of the kids, and sold the rest into slavery

Moral of this story, no matter how much you believe in Jesus, Jesus ain't helping no stupid dickheads who can't think for themselves
 
Wallaby said:
True.
The oil was in Persia (today Iraq/Iran)
The British Naval battlefleet was being switched to oil- rather than coal-fired.
The oil was brought out of Persia via the Mediterranean - via the Dardanelles. Otherwise - via the Red Sea, and the Cape of Good Hope. Much longer - more risk of raiders and submarines.

And that's why the Brits were so keen for Turkey to remain neutral or join them. That's why the Middle East became a major battleground in WW1.
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via the Dardanelles? definitely not the Suez maybe but I don't think so.

during the ww1 I'm pretty sure the British got their oil form north america. The longer shipping route was simply took too many ships.
 
You're right. They had to buy their oil from the Yanks. At the time. almost all the oil in the world was in Oil trusts under foreign control.

In 1908, a British private company struck oil in Iran. They negotiated various deals with the Shah, and eventually set up a public company. The British Navy was changing to oil-fired ships, and so bought heavily into the company in 1913, and basically controlled it. This was a massive investment, but necessary to safeguard the British interest around the world. Having oil-fired ships meant you needed tankers - yeah, they cost a lot. But remaining coal-fired meant you had to have dozens of small ports around the world where ships could reload with coal (it was not possible to coal effectively at sea - it was a struggle, it took forever, and only a small amount could be transferred. Oil refuelling required a hose and a pump). That's why Britain had so many small island bases around the world that seemed to have no value - all they were was a refuelling port. (The coal carriers would load up at a coal port, and then sail off to meet the naval ship at one of these small ports). Oil would be much. much cheaper, faster, more flexible in the long run. And was a much better fuel in the new turbines.

So it was in Brits interest for Turkey to remain friendly (or neutral). Not just in WW!, but for the long term. So, yes, the Brits were not able to access the Iranian oil during WW1 (there was a little bit brought out via the Persian Gulf - not the Red Sea as I said). But basically - USA!USA!

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (as it was) provided most of the oil for the British Navy after the First World War. Eventually it became the British Petroleum Company (BP).
 

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Kangaroos4eva said:
A
Eventually, either the noise or the lack of murder got to Kramer and he slowly began to turn the tank’s main gun into the flightpath of the attacking planes, intent on shooting them out of the sky. It’s at this point that we should probably point out that shooting a plane out of the sky with a tank’s main gun is a feat most would deem impossible. We should also probably point out that Kramer succeeded in shooting down an attacking fighter with his second shot.


http://www.defensionem.com/tank-shoots-down-a-plane/
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Did LOL
 
VineyIsLORD said:
It is a matter of record that the Spartans were massive scumbags, even compared to the other civilisations of their time.

And they were massive fascists too. Infanticide, slavery, war. The three pillars of Spartan "society".

MA's comment was spot on.
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Not sure if someone else has already mentioned it, but Hitler explicitly praised Spartans and viewed their subjugation of the Helots as "inspiration" for creating a racially pure state. Undoubtedly, Hitler would have probably cited a another tribe from history that aligned with his only fascistic views but yes, clearly Spartan culture was a brutal one the human race needn't revisit.
 
SBYM said:
Nope. I live in London and the only museum I've thus far been to here (other than art galleries) is the Churchill War Rooms.
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Imperial war museum is rather impressive and close to you.

For some reason this made me think of one of Scott's last diary entries;

We took risks, we knew we took them; things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint, but bow to the will of Providence, determined still to do our best to the last.

Pretty ******* staunch.
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"I am just going outside and may be some time"
 
John said:
You will find that Herr Schicklgruber had his finger in German politics and economics for a long time prior to the outbreak of WW2. And no I dont know the answers to my questions. I have read many opinions as to those questions but am always interested in what others have to say.
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Looking back I never got to read your opinions on this matter John. It was a while ago though so I understand if you don't want to share. :thumbsu:
 
Striker475 said:
The retreat from Gallipoli always gets me. Months of combat and one side retreats completely in one night with no losses? Unheard of.
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IIRC it wasn't over one night but imagine the stress of being the last blokes to leave. The troops were slowly evacuated over a few nights until a handful of soldiers were left for the last few hours and it was their job to walk up and down the trenches firing rifles, reloading the drip rifles, cooking food, throwing grenades etc. just generally making a lot of noise that was expected normal sized military force. If the Turks caught wind of this you were essentially screwed. Great planning from the brave men that lost so much for no gain.

Although I have heard that the Turks probably did know something was up but they were just as sick of fighting as the ANZAC troops and allies. It was a strange perverted kind of respect shown between the two forces and I wouldn't be surprised if they let it slide either.
 
rfctiger74 said:
I love the Childrens' Crusade

In the 1200's kid has a dream, and Jesus visits him. He says "dude, I don't like all them mussies in the holy land. I want you to go there with a bunch of kids and make them christians"

Kid says "cool plan bro, I'm in"

Kid walks around France, telling everyone his tale. They all say "cool plan bro, I'm in" and he gathers an army of 30,000 kids

Wondering what to do next, kid gets visited by Jesus again one night. "What the **** do I do now bro?" The kid asks. "Go down to Marseille and you will find ships there to take you to the holy land" Jesus tells him. "******* awesome plan mate, you rock jesus!" The kid says, and he gathers his army of children of kiddies and heads south.

When they get to Marseille, Jesus was right! There were ships there, and the captains said they would take them to the holy land. Only issue is, they lied. They killed many of the kids, and sold the rest into slavery

Moral of this story, no matter how much you believe in Jesus, Jesus ain't helping no stupid dickheads who can't think for themselves
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I don't know whether "love" is the word I would use to describe something as horrible as the children's crusade!
 
rank and file said:
The WW2 "Battle of Stalingrad"
My definition of hell,freezing cold,starvation and death.
Not sure why I'm fascinated by it,my team wasn't even playing.
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To here the story from the Russian perspective, you wonder whether Stalin was a genius or just a Campaigner
 
Just read the story of the founder of GM motor company.

Incredibly sad to hear the guy went bankrupt so many times. He ended up having a stroke but still having to work until his death.

His last job was flipping burgers in his 80s.
 
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