Autopsy Round 3 - Saints v Lions

[StCicatriz]

They destroyed Geelong in a worse way in a grand final. Just completely overawed them and broke their will. The best team since Hawthorn's most recent dynasty. We held our own for three quarters but couldn't sustain it.

I don't think people in here truly understand what we're up against in this current AFL system. We're pushing so much shit uphill that it's sometimes hard to even see the ****ing tracks. All the levers we pulled in the offseason were the right ones. The system has left us no other choice.

Well said. Couldnt agree more.

 

[StCicatriz]

You know if people are going to bash Pou, they need to do it with facts.

Here are some facts.

60% TOG.
15 disposals
3 SI / 1 direct goal assist
4 clearances: 2 stoppage & 2 Centre clearance (this is equal most clearances for us today)
5 tackles
3 I50
3 R50

Wasn’t the issue. To prove it so.

He effectively had an identical day to Hall but a better day than Wilson from 26% less game time.

Again was our leading clearance getter

Its just harder to see his input as its all done in close instead of offensively in the fwd line like in previous seasons

 

[StCicatriz]

I haven't had mason in my side all year. I think it might be time to move past him

No sharman
No king

With a terrible tall fwd line

Absolutely no chance of happening

 

[smooth_mover]

I’m with the glass half full crowd. Three and a half quarters in, we were toe to toe with them. Then it fell apart. It looked like we were gassed again. I didn’t think we looked gassed against Collingwood, they just shredded us on the rebound. Against Melbourne, De Koning looked sick in the second half; against GWS, the entire team looked off in the second half. This week, in the last half of the final quarter, the team visibly ran out of steam. It’s been mentioned that some lurgy has been going around over the past few weeks. If it happens again next week, maybe it’s a fitness issue, but I’m ready to hold fire for at least one more week.

I think it’s worth not forgetting those first three quarters. Brisbane weren’t just going through the motions or shifting gears, there was real intensity, and the game was on the line. Both teams were desperate. Overall, I think we’re heading in the right direction, but if I had one word to describe us, it would be “wobbly.” I’d have our entire forward unit kicking 1,000 set shots this week, it’s killing us. Composure could also use some work, but it feels like things are close to clicking. There are quarters where we dominate and moments where we look really good.

Ross is right, we need some younger players not just to step up occasionally, but to be consistently composed. A full four-quarter effort. Personally, I think it’s coming. There will be ups and downs, there are a lot of kids still finding their feet. I’m looking forward to the next few weeks, I think it will give us a much better indication of where we’re at.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

We've lost the last two final quarters 3 goals to 12 in total. Not fit enough?

 

[Kennedy84]

Valiant effort early but wasteful in front of goal and just ran out of juice in the last and they showed their class. Our midfield was really outmatched today against a team missing arguably their best mid which is a worry. Phillipou just isn’t cutting it at the moment and Flanders decision making when under pressure can be questionable. Would like to see him play a bit more at half back and distribute the ball by foot. We really need King to provide a target up forward because Marshall clearly isn’t working, in hindsight we probably should have traded him but I was big on keeping him so not much you can do there. I also think Tauru lacks forward craft and is a defender. Disappointing for Sharman as he was playing much better today.

Hopefully we can regroup and come back better and a bit more polished after the bye and maybe mix up the midfield a little bit.

On that Sharman concussion, it looked intentional to me, I'm not sure why nothing was made of it.

The action isn't natural, he thrust his elbows down hard.... They don't even allow 12 to 6 strikes in the UFC.

Valiant effort early but wasteful in front of goal and just ran out of juice in the last and they showed their class. Our midfield was really outmatched today against a team missing arguably their best mid which is a worry. Phillipou just isn’t cutting it at the moment and Flanders decision making when under pressure can be questionable. Would like to see him play a bit more at half back and distribute the ball by foot. We really need King to provide a target up forward because Marshall clearly isn’t working, in hindsight we probably should have traded him but I was big on keeping him so not much you can do there. I also think Tauru lacks forward craft and is a defender. Disappointing for Sharman as he was playing much better today.

Hopefully we can regroup and come back better and a bit more polished after the bye and maybe mix up the midfield a little bit.

 

[Goofy975]

Until you see his appalling kicking in the midfield.
Worth a try, but hold off on the judgement until you actually see it.

Can't be worse than him kicking goals surely. Although he was pretty decent today especially the boot outside 50

 

[thekizzler]

I'd like to see Hunter Clark in this side. A bit of polish. It's good there'll be some selection pressure after the bye; Clark, Macrae, and Hastie should be thereabouts.

What did people think of Wood's game? I'm a bit concerned about him.

It's time for Wood to be settled as player at either end of the ground. He hasn't been an elite wingman for a long time.

He is still contributing just enough to not be in the gun but only had 20+ possessions twice last season.

I think he looked good when played forward and as a lead up player last season. I also feel that he could be a decent third tall defender. I guess the issue is where does he fit into either end of the ground after our recruiting and young talent coming through.

 

[phantom13]

Frustratingly predictable in the end.

Thankfully we held off GWS but we’ve been totally incapable of finishing the work in games now.

It’s early, the team will gel blah blah blah. Not gonna matter if we keep falling behind the pack.

It feels like it’ll click toward the back half of the year and we’ll miss finals by a game or percentage and look back on these first few weeks and rue the lost opportunity.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

It feels like it’ll click toward the back half of the year and we’ll miss finals by a game or percentage and look back on these first few weeks and rue the lost opportunity.

Ala most of the past 15 years

 

[pebblesofsand]

Watched a bit of the North V Don's game last night.

Our effort is better than the Don's but our skills are about the same level.

Can we get a handball coach please.

 

[Sully111]

Last year I thought Windy didn't necessarily have another gear to go up, but he seems to have made the jump. It just reminded me that these boys are still young and have probably 5 more years of growth in them.
By comparison, Pou is a year and a half younger and basically lost the whole of last year to injury. I'm not sure what to make of him as he's a strange mix of abilities and a but of a different cat. The only things I'm sure about is that it's too soon to draw judgement.

Yeah, you’re right.

I’m in no way writing him off. I giess we’ll see.

 

[Saintbloke]

Watched a bit of the North V Don's game last night.

Our effort is better than the Don's but our skills are about the same level.

Can we get a handball coach please.

Dumb playing on at all costs killed us in many efforts to go forward- just needed to look for the best option, not just an option..pretty undisciplined stuff.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Which ones of our under 24's have a genuine chance to make the the step up to being a consistent A grader?

Just a shame King's had all of these injury issues, because having an A grade mid in Nas kicking it down his throat would be elite.

He did some special things when he had Ross and co kicking it 20m high on his head.

 

[Yawkey way]

We have completely butchered this list build and it’s not something that’s an easy fix.

Who has a weaker midfield than st Kilda, just have a think about where you rate our mids. Imo if it’s not bottom 4 at best maybe take another look.

We have some very good players, we bring effort and we’re well coached but you can’t overcome that glaring hole in the middle.

We played the defending champs, butchered a chance to jump them early, brought genuine effort and pressure until the inevitable happened. A great midfield got a hold of us and put us to the sword.

We’ll beat teams with less skill and resolve than Brisbane but we’re not going far without adding a couple of genuine A grade mids.

 

[Ricmel]

Think everyone’s overreacting in the game day thread. Footy is a game of moments and for a young team that’s still gelling playing the reigning dual premiers, who clearly came to play.

I think that is a fair context. Not expected to win. Very competitive for 4 quarters, reasonable effort. I think it is being judged in the context of losses to Pies and Dees.

The bigger concern for me is after 4 games, the great renaissance talked about in the pre-season thread (an even more wildly optimistic pre-season thread than previous pre-season threads!!!!) looks to be faltering.

Pou is not developing into Paddy Dangerfield, Box is not looking like having a break out year, Garcia is not a slightly lesser version of Daics, Windy and Mitch are jogging up and down on the spot, Tauru and Travaglia appear longer term prospects than maybe we hoped.

If all that continues to happen and Marshall, Wood, Hill and Wilkie continue to decline or start to decline I am unsure what this year actually is.

And that is scary. If we are not challenging or not rebuiliding or not developing....what are we doing this year? Most teams are in one of those phases. Not sure where we exactly are.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

We've lost the last two final quarters 3 goals to 12 in total. Not fit enough?

Yet we are doing more running and covering more distance at speed than the opposition. Its not that simple, it is because we have to work harder to win the footy back and spend so much effort chasing and filling holes. Skills, forward entries, goal kicking and maintaining possession with composure are our biggest weakness - not fitness.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

And that is scary. If we are not challenging or not rebuiliding or not developing....what are we doing this year? Most teams are in one of those phases. Not sure where we exactly are.

To me it looks like we're primed for mid-table finishes for the foreseeable future. We'll probably finish around 10th this year, then maybe improve a little next year but then the decline of Wilkie/Sinclair/Marshall/Hill/Wood will counter a good amount of the natural improvement that we get from our younger players, who mostly look like becoming solid contributors rather than stars.

Hall and Nas should be elite players for a long time, though who knows if Nas will still be around after next season. I think Tauru will be very good. Windy and Owens will both play 250 games and have plenty of top 10 B&F finishes but they're not going to be AA level. Pou is starting to be a bit of a worry - I've thought that he could be a real difference maker but he needs to start producing soon. Unfortunately I think we aren't getting much return from a couple of first round picks in Collard and Travaglia.

Having somewhere between 2.5-3 mil per year tied up in a forward who doesn't play and a ruck who isn't top 5 in the comp for many years to come is going to heavily restrict what we can do with the list moving forward.

 

[stfan]

Owens is going at around 2 goals a game. If he does that all year he a 46 goal forward. Pretty much Membrey impact. If we could get similar from Higgins, Owens, Sharman and Ryan we should be looking okay.

For his size Owens is a contested marking beast.

When he just snaps or kicks quickly like his goal from outside 50 againsts the Lions he is a good shot on goal.

But in set-shots he is below par, and often also shanks them. For whatever reason when he has time to take his shot his accuracy drops. Not sure if he needs a psychologist, or a kicking coach, but if he could improve his set shots more he would be a very good forward.

If King gets back as well we are looking pretty decent all of a sudden.

King will make a significant difference when he gets back.



BUT, we still lack enough A-Graders in our team to be a genuine contender and especially in the midfield.

Nas at present is learning how to cope with a close tag EVERY game. But even if he masters it our midfield group is still too vannila, which means that the opposition can really concentrate on Nas.

Flanders look to bea good mod, nota great mid.
Macrae looks to now be getting injured regularly.

Hall may become a mid, but he is so damaging in his outside mid /hf role that he might be best deployed there.



Overall as a team's our lack of quality all over the field means that we just turn over the ball a bit too often, and do not use it well enough often enough. That is the difference in winning and losing our games this season. And it will unless it some how changes be the difference in maybe making the 8 and instead finishing in the bottom third.

So who can improve to supply that quality?

 

[Sir Owens]

Who cares. Plenty of opportunities to win the game. Shat the bed as usual. 1-3 is pathetic. Playing well below out potential.

We are sloppy and unfit. Enough with the excuses. It's 15 years of medicority.

Yea who cares they get access to a top 5 mid every year. What planet are you living on, is that you Fagan

 

[ScrappyDo]

We've lost the last two final quarters 3 goals to 12 in total. Not fit enough?

Working too hard for too little reward. It's not a fitness issue, it's a score conversion issue.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Dumb playing on at all costs killed us in many efforts to go forward- just needed to look for the best option, not just an option..pretty undisciplined stuff.

Again, it's another symptom of composure issues. They default to the instructions when in doubt.

 

[beside the seaside]

I think that is a fair context. Not expected to win. Very competitive for 4 quarters, reasonable effort. I think it is being judged in the context of losses to Pies and Dees.

The bigger concern for me is after 4 games, the great renaissance talked about in the pre-season thread (an even more wildly optimistic pre-season thread than previous pre-season threads!!!!) looks to be faltering.

Pou is not developing into Paddy Dangerfield, Box is not looking like having a break out year, Garcia is not a slightly lesser version of Daics, Windy and Mitch are jogging up and down on the spot, Tauru and Travaglia appear longer term prospects than maybe we hoped.

If all that continues to happen and Marshall, Wood, Hill and Wilkie continue to decline or start to decline I am unsure what this year actually is.

And that is scary. If we are not challenging or not rebuiliding or not developing....what are we doing this year? Most teams are in one of those phases. Not sure where we exactly are.

We're four games in. Of course we want Pou and Garcia to become Bont and Daicos overnight but things take time. The midfield has been pretty good so far this year and that is with a bunch of babies in there, they lowered their colours in the last quarter to the best midfield in the game.

Personally I think we have definitely improved from last year. What Ross said is true though, if we are going to take the next step we need some guys to go up levels. Unfortunately it can take time. Look at a guy like Ed Richards for example. Not many players are elite at 20 or 21.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Midfield lost it in the last quarter. We didn’t dare to win. We tried to hold them off.
Plenty to like about what we did but still missing 2 key pieces. A tall marking forward and an A grade mid.
Don’t think we have that mid on our list but not sure Max will get back to being the key target - time will tell.
Target these 2 pieces next trade period and list looks good.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

We lost it in the 1st quarter when we should have piled on goals

Brisbane did the same though.