Review Round 8 = Collingwood 93-93 Hawthorn

[BigVic]

I hope West Coast dont get on a roll!!

Please no

 

[sr36]

When Josh Fraser was Rucking, he was often outsized, and we became great at sharking opposition hit outs.
We need to work on these setups against the best Rucks.

We didn't have the cattle. It was clinical from the Hawks. We couldn't compete with their rucks, so they controlled the hit zone, hit it to their advantage and blocked out Nick - our others aren't good enough. Centre square ruck is massive under the new rules, as the throw up is so predictable that you can just control the situation if your ruck can reach higher. I do think we should have switched to Nick starting further away to make it harder to block him out. But we need better players in there than we had.

 

[gouki88]

We didn't have the cattle. It was clinical from the Hawks. We couldn't compete with their rucks, so they controlled the hit zone, hit it to their advantage and blocked out Nick - our others aren't good enough. Centre square ruck is massive under the new rules, as the throw up is so predictable that you can just control the situation if your ruck can reach higher. I do think we should have switched to Nick starting further away to make it harder to block him out. But we need better players in there than we had.

 

[sr36]

Yep. The throw up has taken a heap of luck out of centre stoppage, so best group wins a higher percentage and the value of a tap ruck has gone through the roof. I think ruck is even more important tbh. Steene is a second ruck - too many blokes who will be too tall to get over the top of and that will increase as dinosaur rucks get phased out, and despite his fabulous strengths around the ground, Cameron is in trouble. I really hope we get Condon.

 

[BigVic]

The ball-up instead of the bounce need luck at the stoppage in the centre square

 

[No SPIN]

We didn't have the cattle. It was clinical from the Hawks. We couldn't compete with their rucks, so they controlled the hit zone, hit it to their advantage and blocked out Nick - our others aren't good enough. Centre square ruck is massive under the new rules, as the throw up is so predictable that you can just control the situation if your ruck can reach higher. I do think we should have switched to Nick starting further away to make it harder to block him out. But we need better players in there than we had.

What effective mix of players do we deploy to overcome the issue?

 

[No SPIN]

The ball-up instead of the bounce need luck at the stoppage in the centre square

Hawks won CB clearance 19-5 - I don’t think it was a matter of luck.

 

[Sea fog]

Well it was a nice change to almost beat the rotten Hawks. BTW, who was playing on Dylan Moore

8

Dylan Moore

Age

26

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

? If he stopped him getting the ball we dont see Moore's clumsy tackle to cost us the 2 points

 

[No SPIN]

Well it was a nice change to almost beat the rotten Hawks. BTW, who was playing on Dylan Moore? If he stopped him getting the ball we dont see Moore's clumsy tackle to cost us the 2 points

Interesting - I thought McStay wasn’t sharp enough to stop Barrass playing on and giving off the handball. But with the 50 metre rule he may have been cautious and thought he’d get penalised if he tackled Barrass.

 

[Lifelong Pie]

Pro

Well it was a nice change to almost beat the rotten Hawks. BTW, who was playing on Dylan Moore? If he stopped him getting the ball we dont see Moore's clumsy tackle to cost us the 2 points

Probably Maynard who could have marked it, not blaming Moore for the loss but at that moment whoever was on Dylan Moore could probably have expected Darcy Moore to take that mark

 

[granniewolf]

Why do players doing short kick-ins to team mates who are alone, do high, loopy kicks giving the opposition time to get there and mark resulting in turnovers?
This happened during the game resulting in Hawthorn goals.
Is it harder to do a low kick that gets there faster?

 

[gouki88]

Yep. The throw up has taken a heap of luck out of centre stoppage, so best group wins a higher percentage and the value of a tap ruck has gone through the roof. I think ruck is even more important tbh. Steene is a second ruck - too many blokes who will be too tall to get over the top of and that will increase as dinosaur rucks get phased out, and despite his fabulous strengths around the ground, Cameron is in trouble. I really hope we get Condon.

Condon seems near-prototypical for the new rules. Enormously tall, good athlete (especially compared to rucks of comparable size), and agile. I also worry about DC long-term. By the time his contract is up Condon should hopefully have replaced him.

Steene is probably an inch too small to be ideal, especially as I don’t think he’d be able to adapt to waning athleticism the way someone like Grundy has. I still think he’ll be quite handy for years though

 

[Magpie Since 1986]

Dumb of our supporters to boo Ginnivan. Even if you think booing is justified , Ginnivan eats that shit up and actually plays better, you just knew he'd kick that goal with all the booing . If you want to put Ginnivan off his game treat him with indifference and stay silent, it'll be far more unsettling not to get the attention he seeks.

 

[sr36]

The ball-up instead of the bounce need luck at the stoppage in the centre square

It's the other way round.

 

[IlovethePies]

For all those belittling Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

, watch this video from FirstUp who explains how brilliant how entire defence was against Hawthorn, and he includes Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

in his accolades:



After you watch it, you will start to appreciate the extraordinary synchronisation, collaboration, co-ordination and shared effort through which our defensive structures are set up. It is astonishing how accurately they do this in real time.

It was also interesting how he highlighted Lipinski's frequent role in linking to create an offensive opportunity out of defence.

He also highlighted the fact that it was this team defence that suffocated Gunston, and prevented him from scoring throughout the game, despite Hawthorn's sixty two I50's.

All of this was achieved even without Perryman for much of the game.

Great analysis.

He concludes that had it not been for this magnficient team defence, the Pies would never have been able to establish a winning position at the end of the game.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I hope West Coast dont get on a roll!!

Incredible how the other two contenders from then have fallen into the doldrums for half a decade and we’ve kept on competing for flags.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

We didn't have the cattle. It was clinical from the Hawks. We couldn't compete with their rucks, so they controlled the hit zone, hit it to their advantage and blocked out Nick - our others aren't good enough. Centre square ruck is massive under the new rules, as the throw up is so predictable that you can just control the situation if your ruck can reach higher. I do think we should have switched to Nick starting further away to make it harder to block him out. But we need better players in there than we had.

No disrespect to the current crop, but Licuria, Burns and O’Bree they are not.

 

[Big Bryza]

Jordy was the big disappointment for mine. If he played the second half anything like his first, we win that game easy. 14 touches and 2 goals in the first half, 4 touches and no goals in the second.

Not good enough for an experienced player. Don't think he picked up an injury, so just lack of conditioning. His progress is a big key to our chances this year (Bobby the other one).

This sums Jordy's career up though. Threatens to rip the comp apart. Just when he's on the verge, he goes MIA. His first half was unreal. It's just a shame that he'll never be truly elite.

 

[Big Bryza]

The ball-up instead of the bounce need luck at the stoppage in the centre square

No, it's the complete opposite now. Luck has gone out the window. Tactics and an elite tap ruck win basically every time.

Steene in 2-3 years will borderline unbeatable in there.

 

[Big Bryza]

Dumb of our supporters to boo Ginnivan. Even if you think booing is justified , Ginnivan eats that shit up and actually plays better, you just knew he'd kick that goal with all the booing . If you want to put Ginnivan off his game treat him with indifference and stay silent, it'll be far more unsettling not to get the attention he seeks.

It's just theatre. Whether he gets booed or not, it has no bearing on his game.

 

[TradeDraft]

This sums Jordy's career up though. Threatens to rip the comp apart. Just when he's on the verge, he goes MIA. His first half was unreal. It's just a shame that he'll never be truly elite.

Really he has not lived to expectations

Been a Tease whole career

 

[sr36]

No, it's the complete opposite now. Luck has gone out the window. Tactics and an elite tap ruck win basically every time.

Steene in 2-3 years will borderline unbeatable in there.

I don't know about the bolded. He'll get a heap better at around the ground ruck work, but at centre bounce? Is his jump going to increase much from here? It's pretty much who can reach the highest at hte cb throw ups. He's only getting over the blokes who will be phased out due to the rule change - Briggs/Pittonet and then Peter Wright. I think he'll be a second ruck long term as they'll shift to taller blokes prefereably with a leap, rather than Briggs and co.

 

[No SPIN]

Really he has not lived to expectations

Been a Tease whole career

You obviously didn’t like his last QTR in the 23 GF ?
Sorry to hear that Dave

 

[Peters_Nuts]

You obviously didn’t like his last QTR in the 23 GF ?
Sorry to hear that Dave

Jordy has so many runs on the board from that 2023 finals campaign that it's going to be hard for me to ever criticise him.

 

[Big Bryza]

I don't know about the bolded. He'll get a heap better at around the ground ruck work, but at centre bounce? Is his jump going to increase much from here? It's pretty much who can reach the highest at hte cb throw ups. He's only getting over the blokes who will be phased out due to the rule change - Briggs/Pittonet and then Peter Wright. I think he'll be a second ruck long term as they'll shift to taller blokes prefereably with a leap, rather than Briggs and co.

Just scratching the surface at AFL level. Very good at centre ball ups, as he continues to build full body strength and experience, his around the ground work will improve immensely. He's already shown his aerial ability as a forward.