Answer is to bottom out

[Bruman]

Here is a classic Catch 22.. The only real way to build a list nowadays is to bottom out for a couple of years. Get 4 or 6 Gun players that can play immedietly. St.Kilda did it.. Carlton is doing it.. Brisbane did it.. BUT IF YOU COACH RICHMOND YOU CANT. If you finish low your gone. Tiger supporters will spit on ya. SO you have to keep improving and selecting good drafy picks. YOu get the best coach, best assistants and best admin and make a long term plan.. BUT Tiger supporters stil not happy. THey want FLAG NOW!! Caroline wilson (tiger supporter) cracks em.. Says they have no future. The current tiger admin recruited all the bulldog guns. They are now good after 6 years. GIVE THESE BLOKES TIME.. Richmond culture is the reason they have been failing for 20 years. Richmond supporters are to blame..

 

[Poz_Utd_V.2]

Thing is sides like St.Kilda and Carlton who have bottomed out are yet to win a flag. Where as sides like West Coast and Sydney never really bottomed out but had good coaches and good recruiting staff to draft players like Cox and Fletcher and Kirk from the rookie draft

 

[_RT_]

Here is a classic Catch 22.. The only real way to build a list nowadays is to bottom out for a couple of years. Get 4 or 6 Gun players that can play immedietly. St.Kilda did it.. Carlton is doing it.. Brisbane did it.. BUT IF YOU COACH RICHMOND YOU CANT. If you finish low your gone. Tiger supporters will spit on ya. SO you have to keep improving and selecting good drafy picks. YOu get the best coach, best assistants and best admin and make a long term plan.. BUT Tiger supporters stil not happy. THey want FLAG NOW!! Caroline wilson (tiger supporter) cracks em.. Says they have no future. The current tiger admin recruited all the bulldog guns. They are now good after 6 years. GIVE THESE BLOKES TIME.. Richmond culture is the reason they have been failing for 20 years. Richmond supporters are to blame..

And just how many of those bottoming out teams have gone on to win a flag? Answer NONE. Thats just picking one whole in your little thread. Now off you go and play on the Saints board and think back to all the success those early draft picks have brought them. Was it not your own club that sacked a coach after 3 straight finals series? Yet you tell us to stick with a long term plan.

 

[roostertalk]

agree with your theory, but genuinely think Wallace has found an ok mix in the last two years with rebuilding yet not being spat on. Maybe its his ability to wac the mouth on auto pilot and talk like a politician but it seems to be doing the job. We're getting better and have a good young list that many would have to agree will be a good list soon. The signs of steady improvement are already evident and i certainly dont think we're far behind Carlton in terms of a rebuilt list. Brisbane however should be comended for their short turn around. They certainly didnt "bottom out" as you say though and richmond can do the same.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Thing is sides like St.Kilda and Carlton who have bottomed out are yet to win a flag. Where as sides like West Coast and Sydney never really bottomed out but had good coaches and good recruiting staff to draft players like Cox and Fletcher and Kirk from the rookie draft

Spot on! Everybody talks about needing to bottom out but why have other teams such as the Eagles, Swans, Brisbane etc... not have to? There is no doubt that a teams need to finish in the bottom half...but I question the need to bottom out. I should also add that each of the teams listed above have had / still have strong administrations. How many CEO's & coaches have we had over the years? Mmmm...wonder if one effects the other???

 

[tonywce23]

The Eagles finished 14th or wherever it was six years ago, so I would suggest they bottomed out

 

[PLSC]

Here is a classic Catch 22.. The only real way to build a list nowadays is to bottom out for a couple of years. Get 4 or 6 Gun players that can play immedietly. St.Kilda did it.. Carlton is doing it.. Brisbane did it.. BUT IF YOU COACH RICHMOND YOU CANT. If you finish low your gone. Tiger supporters will spit on ya. SO you have to keep improving and selecting good drafy picks. YOu get the best coach, best assistants and best admin and make a long term plan.. BUT Tiger supporters stil not happy. THey want FLAG NOW!! Caroline wilson (tiger supporter) cracks em.. Says they have no future. The current tiger admin recruited all the bulldog guns. They are now good after 6 years. GIVE THESE BLOKES TIME.. Richmond culture is the reason they have been failing for 20 years. Richmond supporters are to blame..

shut the **** up

 

[Goldust]

agree with your theory, but genuinely think Wallace has found an ok mix in the last two years with rebuilding yet not being spat on. Maybe its his ability to wac the mouth on auto pilot and talk like a politician but it seems to be doing the job. We're getting better and have a good young list that many would have to agree will be a good list soon. The signs of steady improvement are already evident and i certainly dont think we're far behind Carlton in terms of a rebuilt list. Brisbane however should be comended for their short turn around. They certainly didnt "bottom out" as you say though and richmond can do the same.

Wallace inherited a train wreck...no two ways about it! He has done what he can, shedding six to eight players a year.
Problem being he started with a list that was two thirds or more crap! Simply put you can't just cull 20 players in one year!
We're getting there!
Minus a few key position options, the list looks a heullva lot better than it did in Frawley's final year!

 

[Rayzorwire]

Bottoming out doesn't help if your list is lifted from 16th to top-4 largely on the backs of a handful of players who were elite priority draft picks. A couple of key injuries to those players puts you right back amongst the pack...while it takes more than a handful of superstars to win a flag...superstars plus genuine depth coming from a good spread of talent across all positions and age groups is the recipe for premiership success.

Saints fans should be better acquainted with the above than most.

 

[PLSC]

Wallace inherited a train wreck...no two ways about it! He has done what he can, shedding six to eight players a year.
Problem being he started with a list that was two thirds or more crap! Simply put you can't just cull 20 players in one year!
We're getting there!
Minus a few key position options, the list looks a heullva lot better than it did in Frawley's final year!

the guys who have left have not been missed but for every graham, knobel, kinglsley that is 1 more delesting we didnt need in the first place

 

[IDGAF]

This is a very tired arguement

 

[1980]

Spot on! Everybody talks about needing to bottom out but why have other teams such as the Eagles, Swans, Brisbane etc... not have to? There is no doubt that a teams need to finish in the bottom half...but I question the need to bottom out. I should also add that each of the teams listed above have had / still have strong administrations. How many CEO's & coaches have we had over the years? Mmmm...wonder if one effects the other???

Comparing apples and oranges. Interstate teams have advantages.

 

[itsintheblood]

Here is a classic Catch 22.. The only real way to build a list nowadays is to bottom out for a couple of years. Get 4 or 6 Gun players that can play immedietly. St.Kilda did it.. Carlton is doing it.. Brisbane did it.. BUT IF YOU COACH RICHMOND YOU CANT. If you finish low your gone. Tiger supporters will spit on ya. SO you have to keep improving and selecting good drafy picks. YOu get the best coach, best assistants and best admin and make a long term plan.. BUT Tiger supporters stil not happy. THey want FLAG NOW!! Caroline wilson (tiger supporter) cracks em.. Says they have no future. The current tiger admin recruited all the bulldog guns. They are now good after 6 years. GIVE THESE BLOKES TIME.. Richmond culture is the reason they have been failing for 20 years. Richmond supporters are to blame..

1 flag in your pathetic history.

 

[NQTIGER]

Bruman

you are so right, but in saying that i have seen 5 premierships, i dont beleve a victoian club will win the flag for along time and if we were competetive, the coaches still wouldnt last, our culture is that we demand success, hafey got the boot, jewel got the boot one year after a flag, we need to give the coaches time and develop alist.

i just want to see us competetive

good post

 

[sante]

The Eagles finished 14th or wherever it was six years ago, so I would suggest they bottomed out

We finished 16th 3 years ago

 

[tigerdan]

So who is to blame for St Kilda's pathetic history?

 

[wart101]

the guys who have left have not been missed but for every graham, knobel, kinglsley that is 1 more delesting we didnt need in the first place

shut the **** up !!!!

 

[wart101]

how can you blame one thing for a club failing, i'm sure that 9 out of ten times it's more than one thing that sends a club into decent, in richmonds case it started in 1980 when they thought they were better than everyone including the players and didn't pay enough to keep them! i'm sure administration has been apart of the problems for the last 20 years which also has control of list development!!!, i think all points are valid but not one alone, if you had to name one thing that has changed at the club in the last ten years i would have to say attitude, we think we are going to win, we think were a chance, we know we are getting better and this attitude goes right up to the CEO!!

bottoming out is not an option, you can't fault a team for doing it's best!!!!!

 

[PLSC]

shut the **** up !!!!

back at ya muppet

 

[tigerT]

West coast finished 14th one year, thats not a sustained period of finishing bottom hence its not bottoming out ala saints, bulldogs, hawks, and carlton.

Until a team that bottoms out shows they are clearly better placed than teams like West coast, sydney, brisbane and Melbourne who dont bottom out yet still seem to bring in quality season after season, then those paying out on us striving for wins should simply STFU bc you have NFI. You have nothing to back you up except waffle from phantom draft BS. Numbers in the draft mean sweet FA, the proof is in the west coast, sydney, geelong, etc etc blueprints, they all have quality lists with consistent top finishes. Idiots.

 

[PLSC]

dont model us against interstate sides who get rookie and salary cap concessions

stkilda raided the draft nicely but stuffed it all up by overpaying for hamill which is the reason they are pushing the salary cap and thus have no depth

rubbish coach and massive injuries have killed them

still the best vic side over the last 5 years

 

[Fishfinger]

The only real way to build a list nowadays is to bottom out for a couple of years.

26 wooden spoons @ 1 every 4 years. Lots of credibility when it comes to bottoming out. Bugger all when it comes to preaching success. Culture.

Go troll where you've actually got a leg to stand on. If there is anywhere.

 

[The Dice Man]

There are no answers, only questions.

 

[Goldust]

So who is to blame for St Kilda's pathetic history?

Probably Danny Frawley.

He manages to **** most things he turns his attention to.

Including us!

 

[Weaver]

stkilda raided the draft nicely but stuffed it all up by overpaying for hamill which is the reason they are pushing the salary cap and thus have no depth

rubbish coach and massive injuries have killed them

Harvey, Gehrig, Clarke, Gardiner, Thompson, Hamill, Hudghton all to go soon. Hayes, Baker, Milne all 27. A 26 year-old back-up in Rix. Tick-tock, tick-tock, running out of time.

They will soon look like 'old' St Kilda. A fab-4 and then nought.