Clinton Jones

[Darkhour]

Post your obvious issues with this player here!

Funnily enough I don't mind his selection and hope he can pick up and get better next year. Then again I'm a big wrap for X Clarke and to a lesser degree R Clarke...

Sure Jones disposal is shizen but he can get the ball and has great pressure. If you remember correctly our team was brilliant when we had Hamill and Guerra creating immense forward pressure and I'm sure thats the mold Lyon has intended him for.

If he's played forward his general disposal counts for naught if he can split the sticks more readily..

 

[dan warna]

negatives.

51% effective disposal.
23 going on 24 (so not a junior)
10 possessions a game.

can't mark, kick or handpass effectively. (yes one game the ball did bounce off his head when he went for a mark, another time the ball hit him in the back)

runs around like a headless chook

has no idea where the ball is.

spoils his own team mates going for the mark.

positives:
he looks a bit like reiwoldt if you squint, the sun is in your eye, your are chronically short sighted.

 

[MilneyLoves2Snap]

+ he is riewoldts brother

- none - he is fit and quick, perhaps lacks some skill but he can get the ball

 

[dan warna]

+ he is riewoldts brother

- none - he is fit and quick, perhaps lacks some skill but he can get the ball

whats the point in getting the ball if you keep kicking it to the opposition...

when its not on the full.

as for getting the ball, 10 times doesn't really cut it, and he does have to go get it because he can't mark.

 

[Darkhour]

Ok Danny boy.. now counter argue a defensive crumbing role for him and give everyone a solid reason why he's still on the list if his as bad as you say he is..

 

[Qsaint]

Post your obvious issues with this player here!

Funnily enough I don't mind his selection and hope he can pick up and get better next year. Then again I'm a big wrap for X Clarke and to a lesser degree R Clarke...

Sure Jones disposal is shizen but he can get the ball and has great pressure. If you remember correctly our team was brilliant when we had Hamill and Guerra creating immense forward pressure and I'm sure thats the mold Lyon has intended him for.

If he's played forward his general disposal counts for naught if he can split the sticks more readily..

Both Clarkes worry me as the don't seem to have a motor X is a perfect midfielder type so its time to step up. What Raph seems to have is a few more inches which I think he can be more effective forward and back. Raph may have more upside

What I don't like is as a unit we seem to have alot of HBF's

 

[Qsaint]

Ok Danny boy.. now counter argue a defensive crumbing role for him and give everyone a solid reason why he's still on the list if his as bad as you say he is..

How many of those have we got though?

 

[Darkhour]

How many of those have we got though?

I'm assuming you mean players on list as opposed to defensive crumbers but then again just like st kilda and every other club, there are always going to be your typical supporters that drill, complain and whine about all the fringe players...

One philosophy is you need strong depth to challenge for a prem. but the other is you need your best 22 or close to it on the park for the majority of the time..

frankly I've only ever referred one st kilda player in the last so many years as a hack and I everyone should know who that person was... T. 'Gumby' E.

 

[Fehring]

If you have X Clarke (good defensive pressure) Milney (a joke defensively) and Schneider (not sure what he's like on that aspect) in the fwd line, there is room for a hard tackler like C Jones. Played magnificently before his injury by creating turnovers which turned into goals for his teammates (at which point his kicking is less of an issue).

 

[dan warna]

Ok Danny boy.. now counter argue a defensive crumbing role for him and give everyone a solid reason why he's still on the list if his as bad as you say he is..

I have no idea why he's on the list.

defensive crumbing role? you need to be able to mark, kick and handpass the ball, and at senior level at 23 he has shown none of these abilities.

I have no idea why mcqualter who debuted so well has gone backwards, I have no idea why we are keeping charlie gardiner who is a dud and delisted watts who was solid in the reserves despite coming back from two long term injuries.

I have no idea why Voss was called too slow when he is clearly faster than birss and more talented.

i have no idea Vaul.

I only hope its the right decision.

my nightmares are after 91/92 we chocked up on over the hill hacks and b grade talents, after 97/98 we chocked up on over the hill hacks and b grade talents, I just see us doing the same.

talking up guys like charlie gardiner, dumpster, birss and CJ, while not developing our own kids. (mcqualters junior CV is exemplary McQualter captained the Victorian Country Under-16 and Under-18 teams at the National Football Championships, he was clearly marked out as an outstanding junior talent with good leadership potential).

i can't believe ppl are talking up a guy who can't mark, kick or handpass. As for not have touches, ball manages to rack up 20 odd possessions a game and still get a hold of the ball 22 odd times, same with dal Santo and Hayes both who rack up stats and tackles.

to have a player ONLY in the side for tackling...thats insane.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I have no idea why he's on the list...

I have no idea why mcqualter who debuted so well has gone backwards, I have no idea why we are keeping charlie gardiner who is a dud and delisted watts who was solid in the reserves despite coming back from two long term injuries.

I have no idea why Voss was called too slow when he is clearly faster than birss and more talented.

i have no idea Vaul...

So what you're saying dan_warna is that, you have no idea...?

Don't worry mate, I think that this'll be the year when CJ shines. He's come from being VERY highly rated in the WAFL, and has taken some time to adjust, but the talent is there. The kicking problem will be solved now - he used to play with a cruddy ball in the WAFL, and is only now getting used to the AFL sherrin.

 

[dan warna]

So what you're saying dan_warna is that, you have no idea...?

Don't worry mate, I think that this'll be the year when CJ shines. He's come from being VERY highly rated in the WAFL, and has taken some time to adjust, but the talent is there. The kicking problem will be solved now - he used to play with a cruddy ball in the WAFL, and is only now getting used to the AFL sherrin.

23/24 and he has to learn how to kick a sherrin?



will they teach him how to mark and handpass too?

maybe get more than 10 possessions a game in the midfield as well?

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Charlie Gardiner is hardly a dud. Was named emergency 8 times for Geelong this year. Ergo, he was in the best 25 players at the premiership team 8 times.

Voss was slow ... and so is Birss. The difference is that Birss is 24, is a genuine midfielder, and racked up a lot of footy from about 60% time-on-ground. He also won plenty of clearances when in the side.

Voss is 30 and past it. Struggled in most games at AFL level this year. One or two shepherds a game doesn't keep your spot. Plus we have plenty more flankers where he came from. Great servant though.

talking up guys like charlie gardiner, dumpster, birss and CJ, while not developing our own kids.

Armitage, Allen, Geary, Howard, Gilbert, Gwilt, Attard + 3 more draftees this year.

We are developing our own kids. We're also getting rid of the ones who can't cut it.


Why are you getting stuck into Dempster and C. Gardiner? Dempster played 85% of games for the team that has played in two of the past three grand finals. He'll surprise you when you watch him.

Plus he's only 22, so has plenty of development left.

McQualter was unlucky, but Goddard is still on the list.


At the end of the day, Ross Lyon needs to be able to make his own calls. Only time will tell whether they are right or wrong, but it would be ludicrous to prevent him from following through with his own football philosophy.

At the end of the day, all the players we are talking about are outside our best 22. The only way we're going to win a flag is with 20-21 of that 22 on the park.

 

[Squizz]

Our squad needs an injection of pace, but you need to run to the right spots and find a teammate too. Can't see Mini-Riewoldt improving these aspects substantially over one summer (notwithstanding he will get better to a degree).

Whilst we have missed Hamill's defensive pressure, I won't be able to look if mini-Riewoldt has to have a shot at goal (not that X had a great year in front of the sticks).

Also remember that Ross Lyon has Blakey playing a forward role.

 

[dan warna]

we all hope its a success

what about goddard? i missed where there was criticism of him? for years I've been saying to critics of goddard, and montagna etc that kids need time to develop. (im sure you remember from as late as last yearr folks hoping for a round 2 pick for monty )

I believe we have been too early in cutting mcqualter and watts was premature, and keeping CJ is a waste of time.

IMO birss is a solid pick up, nothing exciting and some peeps grossly overrate him.

I think a lot of peeps are overrating dumpster and gardiner and they will be top up players at best.

schneiderman is a very good pick up for the pick we used, and its worth giving dumpsters a year to prove himself.

its not all negative but IMO its not rose coloured glasses time.

 

[Darkhour]

its not all negative but IMO its not rose coloured glasses time.

true but being and looking for negatives in the elements that makeup something your passionate about aren't the only aspects to pursue consistently.. being proactive, encouraging, looking and promoting positives are aspects that can occur as well...

your a father, surely you can empathize with this aspect or for that matter, Clinton's parents.. if by the end of next year with the deficiencies he has, there is no improvement or consistency playing in the senior team, then so be it. But to semantically throw the baby out with the bath water is kind of depressing, is it not?

 

[Underdog]

Charlie Gardiner is hardly a dud. Was named emergency 8 times for Geelong this year. Ergo, he was in the best 25 players at the premiership team 8 times.

That means very little. With the salary cap system a team can only have so many players let alone decent ones.

Steven Armstrong played 10 games in 2006 and was a premiership player but he is clearly a depth player at best and isn't in our best 22

Same with Gardiner

 

[dan warna]

true but being and looking for negatives in the elements that makeup something your passionate about aren't the only aspects to pursue consistently.. being proactive, encouraging, looking and promoting positives are aspects that can occur as well...

your a father, surely you can empathize with this aspect or for that matter, Clinton's parents.. if by the end of next year with the deficiencies he has, there is no improvement or consistency playing in the senior team, then so be it. But to semantically throw the baby out with the bath water is kind of depressing, is it not?

lol, you can use the arguement for EVERY player delisted. IMO other players didn't get 1/2 the game time or chances he did.

I would even argue Andrew Thompson (save when he was injured) should have been selected ahead of CJ, he was never in our best 22.

by and large mcqualter, watts and even ferguson have been given less opportunities than CJ.

this thread is specifically about CJ and the other about delisting of mcqualter who I believe never got the opportunities he deserved.

I would be very suprised if CJ was on our list in 09 on the form he showed in 07. he would have to increase his disposal accuracy dramatically as well as his marking and his decision making.

As a father has nothing to do with it, you pick the best players available to you, and frankly at 17 mcqualter was better than CJ at 23, which suggests that GT and RL haven't used him as well as they could.

 

[Darkhour]

I suppose what I intended to illustrate was that being a father might give you the insight into not entirely seeing the nagative aspects of st kilda's list in a lopsided respect to the joys and positive outcomes that can and do exist...

 

[panthers]

To all you Baggers of Clint Jones answer me this question...How many AFL games have you played? Hmmm do i hear oh we havent played any but we could? Sure you could ...get of this guys case he is trying his guts out for our club and all you lounge chair heroes who probably couldnt touch your toes. Stop bagging Saints players you sound like richmond whingers

 

[Underdog]

To all you Baggers of Clint Jones answer me this question...How many AFL games have you played? Hmmm do i hear oh we havent played any but we could? Sure you could ...get of this guys case he is trying his guts out for our club and all you lounge chair heroes who probably couldnt touch your toes. Stop bagging Saints players you sound like richmond whingers

so because you've never worked at Maccas you can't say it tastes bad or because you've never been in federal politics you can't say Rudd/Howard is bad?

Get stuffed. It's called analysing and having an opinion

Robert Walls proves you can play AFL and still be a dropkick...vice versa

 

[borderbarry]

Ross Lyons said we were going to enhance our ruck stocks, or something to that effect. With King, and 2 of the 7 rookies now ruckmen, do you believe we will take another in the draft?

 

[dan warna]

To all you Baggers of Clint Jones answer me this question...How many AFL games have you played? Hmmm do i hear oh we havent played any but we could? Sure you could ...get of this guys case he is trying his guts out for our club and all you lounge chair heroes who probably couldnt touch your toes. Stop bagging Saints players you sound like richmond whingers

does that mean we can't say harvey is a legend? or nathan burke one of the most couragious players? or that loewe was star CHF? or the reiwoldt is so good its scarey because we haven't played ourselves?

get over it.

i dont' rate CJ as a good player, I also feel dissapointed we didn't get more out of watts and mcqualter who I think have more potential.

as for negative, I think Im being realistic, our best 22 is very good, but when guys like CJ are getting a game in the seniors for his paltry return and guys like mcqualter dont get a chance I think its a bit unfair.

 

[cracky]

Oh When the Saints seems to have covered everything in his post .

I still don't understand why some people are complaining about McQualter's delisting. In each game i saw him play he was useless, couldn't be happier seeing him finally cut.

 

[cartwright]

hmm I thought before his injury CJ showed glimpses of being a good player . If he had a full year & didn't progress I could understand what all the fuss is about -
If not, then he'll be cut this time next year.