Coronavirus 2020 / Worldwide (Stats live update in OP) Part 7: This Thread is for Reasonable ON TOPIC Discussion

[Chief]

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf

In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.

 

[Chief]

It's much more work for hospital administrators to determine and record whether people in hospital with Covid are in hospital because of Covid. Far more likely they just count the number of patients who've tested positive

WHY is it more likely?

WHY would all hospitals throughout the country be that derelict? There are well run and badly run hospitals, but to imagine they all think its too much work to do their job properly is ridiculous.

They have clinical coders employed to standardise records:

What is Clinical Coding? - Synapse Medical Services | Medical Coding

By translating written clinical statements into code format, Synapse’s clinical coding service can streamline health information management helping health services operate more efficiently and effectively.

synapsemedical.com.au

They're not all just smoking a dart by the tea trolley waiting for their shift to end.

 

[Taylor]

By a sort of definition arent all vaccines somewhat "experimental". Effectively they track the responses and efficiency across any vaccine ongoing. Most of the COVID ones have been developed from others anyway.

Its such a weird argument, surely if youre against this one because "were all guinea pigs" then you kind of have to be against all of them?

It would be worth asking why this technology, that has been around for a while, was previously unable to pass through the safety testing phases but when the opportunity for governments to take the liability off the companies comes along - now they are safe without question.

I suspect we will get to the point where time and data shows the technology is fine, when we have years of data on them like we have for almost every other vaccine.

 

[Poetic Justice]

So my question still stands from yesterday - did anyone ask Dan what would happen if we get to those special dates and we're still having 500-1000+ cases a day?

 

[Taylor]

So my question still stands from yesterday - did anyone ask Dan what would happen if we get to those special dates and we're still having 500-1000+ cases a day?

If you're cynical you'd expect NSW will get a lot of heat for case numbers rising as they wind down restrictions such that Victorians dislike of being locked down is diluted.

If you're an optimist then you will think the case numbers rising but the results of those cases trending away from needing medical intervention will relax about the fear over numbers, and the media will get bored reporting it when people aren't tuned in anymore.

 

[phantom13]

It would be worth asking why this technology, that has been around for a while, was previously unable to pass through the safety testing phases but when the opportunity for governments to take the liability off the companies comes along - now they are safe without question.

I suspect we will get to the point where time and data shows the technology is fine, when we have years of data on them like we have for almost every other vaccine.

I dont think anyone is implying they are "safe without question" simply that the risk was within the acceptable bounds.

Its not exactly a secret that need and money has fastracked them but overwhelmingly the risk from the vaccines has gone down with more data for analysis.

 

[davemc_lions]

It's funny someone else I know is a covid conspiracy theorists, says he doesn't want to put that sh*t in his body, was telling me this while having a smoke and a beer.

I know someone who does not want that s**t in their body.
Lost count of how many different drugs they been on from some friend of a friend who probably has a RV out in the desert he he

Many people it not anti vax they just anti something

 

[Taylor]

I dont think anyone is implying they are "safe without question" simply that the risk was within the acceptable bounds.

Its not exactly a secret that need and money has fastracked them but overwhelmingly the risk from the vaccines has gone down with more data for analysis.

As has the risk from covid-19.

Italy had everyone worried that this disease would have a 10% fatality rate. Then NY/NJ had it run through their elderly and infirm and we were given the fatality numbers, big numbers, we were worried.

Now the UK has in the realm of the total ever Australian cases a day during their summer and it's shrug territory. A significant part of that has been attributed to the vaccines, comparing Australian outcomes prior to our vaccine rollout would show far better than community expectation from our view of covid-19 internationally.

 

[phantom13]

As has the risk from covid-19.

Italy had everyone worried that this disease would have a 10% fatality rate. Then NY/NJ had it run through their elderly and infirm and we were given the fatality numbers, big numbers, we were worried.

Now the UK has in the realm of the total ever Australian cases a day during their summer and it's shrug territory. A significant part of that has been attributed to the vaccines, comparing Australian outcomes prior to our vaccine rollout would show far better than community expectation from our view of covid-19 internationally.

Not really relevant to pointing out that the "guinea pig" argument of anti vaxxers or vax hesitant is pretty flawed.

 

[davemc_lions]

So my question still stands from yesterday - did anyone ask Dan what would happen if we get to those special dates and we're still having 500-1000+ cases a day?

Pause

Victorian government needs to be prepared to press 'pause button' on roadmap, AMA says

The peak body representing doctors supports the roadmap out of lockdown, but emphasises the need for authorities to monitor outbreak conditions closely and be prepared to step in so hospitals aren't overrun.

www.abc.net.au

The Victorian government must be willing to press the "pause button" on steps in the state's roadmap out of lockdown to prevent overwhelming the health system, the state's branch of the Australian Medical Association (AMA) says.

So honestly cannot see us getting out to booster 99

Interesting NSW got the same modeling did something different

Pretty sure Burnet Institute also has the chances of the sky falling pretty ******* high

 

[owen87]

As has the risk from covid-19.

Italy had everyone worried that this disease would have a 10% fatality rate. Then NY/NJ had it run through their elderly and infirm and we were given the fatality numbers, big numbers, we were worried.

Now the UK has in the realm of the total ever Australian cases a day during their summer and it's shrug territory. A significant part of that has been attributed to the vaccines, comparing Australian outcomes prior to our vaccine rollout would show far better than community expectation from our view of covid-19 internationally.

Why do you think the Australian numbers were never as bad as Italy or the UK pre-vaccine?

 

[burge13]

Pause

Victorian government needs to be prepared to press 'pause button' on roadmap, AMA says

The peak body representing doctors supports the roadmap out of lockdown, but emphasises the need for authorities to monitor outbreak conditions closely and be prepared to step in so hospitals aren't overrun.

www.abc.net.au

The Victorian government must be willing to press the "pause button" on steps in the state's roadmap out of lockdown to prevent overwhelming the health system, the state's branch of the Australian Medical Association (AMA) says.

So honestly cannot see us getting out to booster 99

And the best part of that is the cheerleaders will still stand behind their favourite politician who is ******* society sideways rather than admit they were wrong.

I'm sure 2022 will be different /s (remember everyone saying that about 2021...)

 

[burge13]

Why do you think the Australian numbers were never as bad as Italy or the UK pre-vaccine?

Lifestyle, age demographic, population density, healthcare, warmer weather, less smokers, dont live 3-4 generations in 1 house etc

No matter how much you cult leaders want it, it would never get as bad here as you want it to even if we LeT iT RiP

 

[Taylor]

Not really relevant to pointing out that the "guinea pig" argument of anti vaxxers or vax hesitant is pretty flawed.

When all the data about how effective and safe they are has been collected through the numbers administered it is.

If you're hesitant because you don't know what the longer, and in this example longer is more than 18 months, term effects are - then it applies.

If you're worried about the long term effect of your MMR vaccine for your child that's flawed.

If they invented a new technology for vaccines nearly ten years ago and haven't been able to get any passed through in that time for MMR then you'd be right to ask questions, especially when the companies involved were granted immunity from side effects by governments desperate to seek a solution.

Ultimately we look at it clinically, the community on the whole is comfortable losing a small percentage of our number if it keeps the rest safe/free/productive - just as long as that small number aren't them.

Fast forward five years and if someone still doesn't want a covid-19 vaccine then it's a flawed argument.

 

[owen87]

you cult leaders

We've been through this before; it's people like you that RUSH to BigFooty to crow about the latest round of restrictions because it gives you some brief semblance of relevance that are the cult idiots ignoring all evidence that says your approach is far worse.

it would never get as bad here

The WA and TAS hospital system is already stuffed without letting it rip, what do you think happens there when hospitals get overwhelmed?

You can't simply ignore that an overwhelmed healthcare system leads to a *load more people dying than a healthcare system that's not overloaded, that's not a hard thing for even someone of your belief system to grasp.

 

[Taylor]

Why do you think the Australian numbers were never as bad as Italy or the UK pre-vaccine?

I can tell you exactly why. Italy had both a significant population of workers return from China and an anti-racism campaign encouraging people to get out and show love to their asian community members. Before they identified that the virus was in the country it was out of control.

Meanwhile the racist Australian government banned travel from China.

It's all about opportunity for exposure. We didn't have a lot.

 

[owen87]

I can tell you exactly why. Italy had both a significant population of workers return from China and an anti-racism campaign encouraging people to get out and show love to their asian community members. Before they identified that the virus was in the country it was out of control.

Meanwhile the racist Australian government banned travel from China.

It's all about opportunity for exposure. We didn't have a lot.

So because there was less cases, we had sufficient healthcare resources to treat everyone that required treatment at the highest possible level?

 

[Taylor]

The WA and TAS hospital system is already stuffed without letting it rip, what do you think happens there when hospitals get overwhelmed?

This is the story that should be at the top of the list.

Governments have neglected health care. Now they cannot afford even a mild bad season.

But they aren't being pressed on it.

 

[davemc_lions]

And the best part of that is the cheerleaders will still stand behind their favourite politician who is ******* society sideways rather than admit they were wrong.

I'm sure 2022 will be different /s (remember everyone saying that about 2021...)

Yes Scotty had 3 ******* jobs
1) Get Vax. FAIL.. Still failing.. no sign of him although ACT and Vic said we have shortages in October.
2) Build a quarantine facility as using hotels was not safe.. FAIL
3) Look after the age care and our first nations people.. FAIL

Although for some reasons a lot think he doing a great job.

Dan
1) Run a hotel system not a diversity employment system .. FAIL..
2) After last year get your s**t togther.. Nope we locked down for 3-4 months again FAIL
3) Open up the state.. nope he shat his pants we wait and wait and wait... Even if your double vaxed stay home

Some reason people think he is doing a great job too

Think I vote like my mate does Giant utensil and Balls on the vote slip
Neither are real leaders.. Both just taking kick backs and feathering their own nest.

 

[the_interloper]

Oh dude, im double vaxxed, as ive said many many times, ive put alot worse into my body for way less good reasoning.

Just pointing out the fallacy in that logic.

Likewise, I trust Pfizer a lot more than that dodgy looking bloke at the trance club who had green Mitzis

 

[owen87]

This is the story that should be at the top of the list.

Governments have neglected health care. Now they cannot afford even a mild bad season.

But they aren't being pressed on it.

Maybe the last 18 months bringing to the fore the level of strain health systems are under will make it an issue people are willing to vote on.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Nothing there to suggest that the govt's intention is to maintain lockdowns on the 'pause' basis

The AMA have been going to the extreme in all their commentary.

 

[davemc_lions]

This is the story that should be at the top of the list.

Governments have neglected health care. Now they cannot afford even a mild bad season.

But they aren't being pressed on it.

nope WA cannot get COVID as the health system is crap
they known for years
COVID been around over 18 months

Only way out is to shut borders

Well at least he used a option. At least he does something with those spreading it.
Dan let people in from NSW and then was too woke to stop it spreading

 

[Taylor]

So because there was less cases, we had sufficient healthcare resources to treat everyone that required treatment at the highest possible level?

Absolutely the right call at the time.

The next call should have been to upgrade our health systems, but we are talking about people who didn't think security working on the floor with infected people, not to mention putting infected people on the same floor as not infected people, was a big deal.

So we get what we should have expected.

 

[Taylor]

nope WA cannot get COVID as the health system is crap
they known for years
COVID been around over 18 months

Only way out is to shut borders

Well at least he used a option. At least he does something with those spreading it.
Dan let people in from NSW and then was too woke to stop it spreading

It's at the point where if the state government's had wanted to, they could have nurse trainees in the hospitals by now. Instead, to hide the massive shortage of staff, they can require everyone is vaccinated and if a few decide to retire instead - well all the staffing shortfall is due to evil anti-vaxxers.

 

[Taylor]

Maybe the last 18 months bringing to the fore the level of strain health systems are under will make it an issue people are willing to vote on.

This is my expectation, but I think it will fall flat.

WA has big hospital problems before the last election here but there was no bad press about it from Seven. That their owner was allowed to return straight home, skip hotel quarantine, from a skiing trip in Colorado during the height of the US cases then showed up to a ALP fundraiser a few days later, nothing to do with it.

We have walked into the world where our media are mates with our masters.