Crameri v's Gunston

[Brown n Gold]

Your club has the pick of these 2 players who would you chose and why.

 

[Brown n Gold]

Crameri by flemington straight

Gunston had 18.5 disposals per game v's Pies in 2012 and kicked 5 goals (not counting rnd 1 where he came on as the sub in the 4th quarter for 7 possessions and 1 goal)

Not sure why you wouldn't rate him?

Meanwhile Crameri had 8.5 possessions per game v's pies for 1 goal... (not sure if Crameri picked up soft tissue injuries in either of the games against the pies??

 

[Jade]

Gunston is a fine young player, but you'd have to Crameri.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a reversal in two or three years though; Gunston might very well turn into a hell of a player.

 

[Brown n Gold]

Gunston is a fine young player, but you'd have to Crameri.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a reversal in two or three years though; Gunston might very well turn into a hell of a player.

Appreciate your comments, but it's hard to argue that Gunston on performace in 2012 and certainly based on upside Gunstall is already the astute selection.

 

[Wakwahn]

I chose Crameri and would choose Crameri... Mainly due to being completely biased.

 

[Jade]

Appreciate your comments, but it's hard to argue that Gunston on performace in 2012 and certainly based on upside Gunstall is already the astute selection.

What in the world would make you think that?

Gunston has been good; Crameri is clearly better thus far.

If you wanted to make the claim that you would select Gunston because you believe he will be better going forward, go ahead. He's certainly talented and might very well turn into a substantial player - who knows; looks pretty good though.

If you want to make the argument that he IS better than Crameri - you are pissing into the wind; it's not even debatable.

Gunston's 2012 performance?

Let's see, trails Crameri in:

Marks pg
Tackles pg
i50s pg
CP pg
CM pg
M i50 pg

He kicked more goals though; 39 to 32.

Congratulations, he kicked seven more goals in a side that kicked about 100 more than Essendon....

I really like Gunston, but if you think he had a better 2012 than Crameri you're either massively biased, or really lacking a fundamental understanding of the game.

 

[Brown n Gold]

What in the world would make you think that?

Gunston has been good; Crameri is clearly better thus far.

If you wanted to make the claim that you would select Gunston because you believe he will be better going forward, go ahead. He's certainly talented and might very well turn into a substantial player - who knows; looks pretty good though.

If you want to make the argument that he IS better than Crameri - you are pissing into the wind; it's not even debatable.

Gunston's 2012 performance?

Let's see, trails Crameri in:

Marks pg
Tackles pg
i50s pg
CP pg
CM pg
M i50 pg

He kicked more goals though; 39 to 32.

Congratulations, he kicked seven more goals in a side that kicked about 100 more than Essendon....

I really like Gunston, but if you think he had a better 2012 than Crameri you're either massively biased, or really lacking a fundamental understanding of the game.

Crameri flat tracked it kicking the vast majority of his goals against bottom sides, 5 v's Carlton and 3 v's West coast (clearly WCE worst game for the year) his only hauls against top 8 sides.

Gunston performed for the Hawks when the chips were down. Kicked key goals in big games against Geelong, Collingwood in the regular season and then kicking massive goals in the ADL prelim and very important goals to keep us in the GF. After struggling through the first 4 games of the year starting as the sub twice he then kicked 37 goals in 15 games not kept goalless once and kicked multiple goals in 12 of 15 games... All that from a skinny 20 year old who is yet to physically develop

 

[Jade]

Crameri flat tracked it kicking the vast majority of his goals against bottom sides, 5 v's Carlton and 3 v's West coast (clearly WCE worst game for the year) his only hauls against top 8 sides.

Gunston performed for the Hawks when the chips were down. Kicked key goals in big games against Geelong, Collingwood in the regular season and then kicking massive goals in the ADL prelim and very important goals to keep us in the GF. After struggling through the first 4 games of the year starting as the sub twice he then kicked 37 goals in 15 games not kept goalless once and kicked multiple goals in 12 of 15 games... All that from a skinny 20 year old who is yet to physically develop

And you've conveniently overlooked what I said - nice. Here it is again.

Let's see, trails Crameri in:

Marks pg
Tackles pg
i50s pg
CP pg
CM pg
M i50 pg

He kicked more goals though; 39 to 32.

Congratulations, he kicked seven more goals in a side that kicked about 100 more than Essendon....

I really like Gunston, but if you think he had a better 2012 than Crameri you're either massively biased, or really lacking a fundamental understanding of the game.

 

[Jade]

FWIW, I appreciate that you LIKE Gunston; I do too - he's a quality young kid.

But you've picked the wrong poll opponent -he is outmatched by Crameri at the moment.

 

[WWSD]

Stewart Crameri is the better footballer I rate him very highly. His strength, speed, size, athletisism and skills make him a hard match up for the opposition and when he is on, he is very hard to stop. I reckon if Crameri plays all of next year injury free, he will kick 40+

You can't argue with Gunston season. He kicked 39 goals despite missing 6 games and being the sub twice. If he did infact play those 6 games he missed, he would of possibly kicked 50+ goals.

Crameri now, Gunston later.

 

[Jade]

Crameri is the better footballer, i rate him highly. His strength, speed, size, athletisism and skills make him a hard match up for the opposition and when he is on, he is very hard to stop. I reckon if Crameri plays all of next year injury free, he will kick 40+

You can't argue with Gunston season. He kicked 39 goals despite missing 6 games and being the sub twice. If he did infact play those 6 games he missed, he would of possibly kicked 50+ goals.

Crameri now, Gunston later.

Quality post - that's about how I see it.

 

[WWSD]

Quality post - that's about how I see it.

The good thing about Crameri is despite being only 190cm, he has a great vertical leap and knows how to take a contested mark, he has all the tools to be a quality full forward. I reckon of his strengths is his speed of the mark, he is actually a lot quicker then some people realise. Plus i have never seen him lose his feet or go to ground, such a powerful athlete.

 

[Jade]

The good thing about Crameri is despite being only 190cm, he has a great vertical leap and knows how to take a contested mark, he has all the tools to be a quality full forward. I reckon of his strengths is his speed of the mark, he is actually a lot quicker then some people realise. Plus i have never seen him lose his feet or go to ground, such a powerful athlete.

Yeah he's probably had to play taller than what we would have liked. Ideally he'd make a perfect third tall; but with Hurley shifting back and forth, Gumbleton consistently injured and a resting ruck not really a forward, he's often had to play the prime target.

Be interesting to see how they'd play him if Hurley, Gumbleton, Daniher, Ryder and Bellchambers were all fit and in form (not expecting too much from Joe D. at this point by the way). Been whispers he might be played as that sort of high half forward, centre square link up kind of player. Has the endurance for it. Would certainly give us some nice variety if we can play him anywhere from the goal square to the wing.

Been a good story for us (and the AFL) regardless - certainly had to go the hard way to get a gig at AFL level.

 

[Brown n Gold]

And you've conveniently overlooked what I said - nice. Here it is again.

Marks pg Crameri by 0.1 per game
Tackles pg Crameri by 0.7 per game
i50s pg Crameri by 1.2 per game
CP pg Crameri by 2.8 per game
CM pg Crameri by 0.6 per game
M i50 pg 0.6 per game

CP the only significant difference however with Franklin, Rioli, Rough doing most of the "heavy lifting" in our forward line it is clearly not the role of a skinny 20 year old to crash and bash.

Now if I could have your comments re Crameri's flat track tendancies? failure to step up in 90% of your games against top 8 sides?

 

[WWSD]

Yeah he's probably had to play taller than what we would have liked. Ideally he'd make a perfect third tall; but with Hurley shifting back and forth, Gumbleton consistently injured and a resting ruck not really a forward, he's often had to play the prime target.

Be interesting to see how they'd play him if Hurley, Gumbleton, Daniher, Ryder and Bellchambers were all fit and in form (not expecting too much from Joe D. at this point by the way). Been whispers he might be played as that sort of high half forward, centre square link up kind of player. Has the endurance for it. Would certainly give us some nice variety if we can play him anywhere from the goal square to the wing.

Been a good story for us (and the AFL) regardless - certainly had to go the hard way to get a gig at AFL level.

Howlett is another in the same boat, also another great mature aged story.

 

[astrowizzle]

Like em both. And for all the reasons brought up Crameri now and probably Gunston later. However a lot is being overlooked that not only did Crameri miss a few games and play a lot of games injured this year but the whole team that feeds him the ball was injured for the last half the season to. Will be interesting to revisit this at the end of this season and see how Crameri really goes when he plays with a fit team around him coz i would expect his goal tally to increase dramatically. Then again he may well be playing further up the ground next season anyway.

 

[Brown n Gold]

FWIW, I appreciate that you LIKE Gunston; I do too - he's a quality young kid.

But you've picked the wrong poll opponent -he is outmatched by Crameri at the moment.

Like the poll says, it's who would you pick for your side, not last year not for the next 10 games, but with Gunston potentially for the next 10-12 years and with Crameri for the next 6-8 years.

Gunston has so much upside it is ridiculous, Crameri is physically mature experienced soft tissue injury issues and may not have a whole lot of improvement.

 

[bombermick]

They both have a tonne of improvement left in them. If I was picking for next year I'd pick Crameri, but for the long-term I'd probably pick Gunston.

Line-ball call ...

 

[Jade]

Marks pg Crameri by approx 2.5% a game
Tackles pg Crameri by approx 45% a game
i50s pg Crameri by approx 80% a game
CP pg Crameri by approx 60% per game
CM pg Crameri by approx 85% per game
M i50 pg 40% per game

CP the only significant difference however with Franklin, Rioli, Rough doing most of the "heavy lifting" in our forward line it is clearly not the role of a skinny 20 year old to crash and bash.

You'll note I've gone and changed the UOM with your figures up there...

Statistically, there is a significant difference between the two.

So much so, they'd seem to suggest that Crameri is around half again as good a footballer as Gunston is.

Seriously, Crameri is 150% the footballer Gunston is.

Now is that unfair? Probably, but when you go and post stats in decimals knowing full well they represent a rather wide gap - you should be prepared to get slapped with reality on that one.

To repeat an earlier post in the thread:

If you want to make the argument that he IS better than Crameri - you are pissing into the wind; it's not even debatable.

And that is basically it in a nutshell. As it stands right now, Crameri is a better footballer - enough that you can't reasonably debate Gunston is better; it's a silly argument.

Of course you can have your opinion that Gunston WILL be better. He may very well be, but it's a guess, and a hopeful one at that.

Now if I could have your comments re Crameri's flat track tendancies? failure to step up in 90% of your games against top 8 sides?

Sure thing.

Brent Stanton had cracked 30+ a game in four games up until round 7.

David Zakarakis played three games after Round 10.

Paddy Ryder missed seven of the last eight games.

Benny Howlett missed three of the last four.

And on....

Point? Through form, injury, quality of opposition, fitness levels, alignment of the moons and sightings of Bigfoot - Essendon sucked in the second half of the year.

Is it surprising the output of a forward, so heavily dependent of the performance of the rest of the team suffered?

 

[Jade]

Stopped reading when your numbers were such contrived BS... but did notice David Zakarakis

I'm sorry, where were my figures in accurate?

Please, show me.

Must admit, it's looking a little bit like you are throwing a tantrum because relaity has dawned on you a little bit. Gunston is a fine player, Crameri has him comfortably covered at the moment.

But please, show me where the 'contrived BS' in my figures is?

 

[Righteo]

Crameri.

 

[Grockadoc]

Right now, if I had to choose, I'd take Crameri. For me, he just does more on the field, more often than Gunston. However, that being said, there is 3 years difference in the two. Stewart Crameri is a better player now, but I'd expect, in about 18 months time, that Gunston will become one of the premier 3rd tall/medium forwards in the game. Has all the tools to become a star, but right now, development is still crucial.

 

[Jade]

Contrived doesn't mean inaccurate.. Tell me more about Zakarakis?

Sure! What would you like to know?

We're really happy with that guy.

 

[Brown n Gold]

Crameri.

 

[forwardflanker]

IF Crameri played for Hawthorn he'd be the all Australian forward pocket imo