Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[stormbird]

The court lists at the NSW Online Registry now show dates up to 14 June 2023. The hearing for Appeal: State of New South Wales v William Harrie Spedding (case number 2022/00368706) can be seen on 13 and 14 June, which answers my question back in post #8,111 about whether the hearing might have been delayed because of the second directions hearing on 07 June.

The first directions hearing is still listed for today - it's number 12 on the list.

 

[NRL Fan]

I read somewhere where Chumley has said that in her opinion there were 3 involved and she states that ALL gave testimony at inquest and those 3 don't include Savage nor Spedding. She didn't want to name them obviously. I can easily work out two but scratching my head for the third.

RP, FA, GO

 

[stormbird]

The court lists at the NSW Online Registry now show dates up to 14 June 2023. The hearing for Appeal: State of New South Wales v William Harrie Spedding (case number 2022/00368706) can be seen on 13 and 14 June, which answers my question back in post #8,111 about whether the hearing might have been delayed because of the second directions hearing on 07 June.

The first directions hearing is still listed for today - it's number 12 on the list.

I was hoping there'd be some news tonight about what the appeal is about, but as far as I can find there's nothing.

The NSW Online Registry is now saying that the second "directions (notice of appeal)" is listed for 31 May 2023, not (as was listed this morning) 07 June.

 

[NRL Fan]

At this stage nothing is outside the realm of possibility.

That Tuesday schedule fits nearly with what I'd thought. When you have unskilled labour employed it becomes more difficult to fill their time. So you tend to use them to take time pressure off the skilled labour like dismantling a deck in advance of rebuilding the new deck. It would take at least a day to do perhaps longer. So Friday may have been intended to do that work.....(why GO rang in the am)

I've only just checked in after a break here, but this was also one of my pet theories so I'm happy to see this debated again. GO possibly called in the am to advise he wanted to do the decking that day (or pre-work as you indicated) and had prearranged with FA to assist before confirming with FGM, thus FA rocks up early and parks out front. After reading some earlier posts just now, I was unaware that FA knew of the camera location in Kendall, at the tennis club. This is very interesting (if true), because it means he was always looking out at covering his tracks and was paranoid of cameras. This makes sense when you look at his criminal record. We therefore must assume that the 300km trip north was done in a manner that avoided the freeway cameras and was not detected. Also, it's interesting that RP said he drove 300Km north and didn't mention a destination to the nurse, which would be the normal protocol in a conversation, probably because he still wanted to cover for FA whilst confessing his role in the crime in his dying days. So, did RP really drive due north, or was that just a vague direction in case the nurse passed on the info ???. If you wanted to avoid cameras and carry a boy without being seen, you would probably not use the busy Pacific Hwy anyway, but instead, you would drive up a less travelled road. As a part time resident of the area, one road you might travel up would be up the Oxley Highway, which runs NW through wilderness areas, and where there are no cameras and very little traffic. Deliberately being caught on camera at Kew and PM might also have been a red herring for Police, or perhaps they didn't care about being spotted in their local area as it proves nothing.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I've only just checked in after a break here, but this was also one of my pet theories so I'm happy to see this debated again. GO possibly called in the am to advise he wanted to do the decking that day (or pre-work as you indicated) and had prearranged with FA to assist before confirming with FGM, thus FA rocks up early and parks out front. After reading some earlier posts just now, I was unaware that FA knew of the camera location in Kendall, at the tennis club. This is very interesting (if true), because it means he was always looking out at covering his tracks and was paranoid of cameras. This makes sense when you look at his criminal record. We therefore must assume that the 300km trip north was done in a manner that avoided the freeway cameras and was not detected. Also, it's interesting that RP said he drove 300Km north and didn't mention a destination to the nurse, which would be the normal protocol in a conversation, probably because he still wanted to cover for FA whilst confessing his role in the crime in his dying days. So, did RP really drive due north, or was that just a vague direction in case the nurse passed on the info ???. If you wanted to avoid cameras and carry a boy without being seen, you would probably not use the busy Pacific Hwy anyway, but instead, you would drive up a less travelled road. As a part time resident of the area, one road you might travel up would be up the Oxley Highway, which runs NW through wilderness areas, and where there are no cameras and very little traffic. Deliberately being caught on camera at Kew and PM might also have been a red herring for Police, or perhaps they didn't care about being spotted in their local area as it proves nothing.

Apparently Yamba is 300 klm north

 

[NRL Fan]

Apparently Yamba is 300 klm north

I always assumed the 300km was road distance. This distance is about half a tank for most vehicles and kind of makes sense if you wanted to do a return trip without filling up outside your local area, which would provide police with evidence of the trip. Most likely, the trip was done in a single day without stops, other than the destination.

 

[31550]

I always assumed the 300km was road distance. This distance is about half a tank for most vehicles and kind of makes sense if you wanted to do a return trip without filling up outside your local area, which would provide police with evidence of the trip. Most likely, the trip was done in a single day without stops, other than the destination.

As I posted earlier, CO says RP's car was seen on CCTV heading North on the Saturday and returning on the Sunday. (Ch7 Doco)
And in the DailyMail article posted by ARB above it says:

A recent document says in the two days after William vanished, Porter's car was recorded passing the Kew southbound camera on the morning of September 13, 2014, and the north- and south-bound cameras at Port Macquarie, the next day.

Of course, the trip could have been made in one day, but wouldn't RP have said something to that effect? FA would have been cunning enough to avoid being seen himself e.g. on a service station CCTV.

CO asked 'Steve' what was 300km North. Steve said 'Casino'. That's about right. Not sure what connections FA and RP may have had to Casino.

 

[NRL Fan]

As I posted earlier, CO says RP's car was seen on CCTV heading North on the Saturday and returning on the Sunday. (Ch7 Doco)
And in the DailyMail article posted by ARB above it says:

A recent document says in the two days after William vanished, Porter's car was recorded passing the Kew southbound camera on the morning of September 13, 2014, and the north- and south-bound cameras at Port Macquarie, the next day.

Of course, the trip could have been made in one day, but wouldn't RP have said something to that effect? FA would have been cunning enough to avoid being seen himself e.g. on a service station CCTV.

CO asked 'Steve' what was 300km North. Steve said 'Casino'. That's about right. Not sure what connections FA and RP may have had to Casino.

The issue with the Casino theory is that there are a stack of cameras on the Pacific Highway and they would have been recorded half a dozen times and yet there are only images of RP's vehicle in the local area. It would be good to know the times of the camera images to correlate the trip time and distance. Passing the southbound camera at Kew would have RP heading south towards Taree, but there is a large camera overpass before Taree, so he never made it that far. The north and southbound cameras at Port Macquarie might correlate to a day trip, but not to Casino as they would have been caught on the next camera before Coffs Harbour. However, if they drove up the Oxley Highway then they would have avoided being caught by any cameras. The distance from Kew to Armidale up the Oxley is about 300Km, so it's possible this was near the real destination. Interestingly, If Ray Porter picked up FA and WT behind the Kendall public school he would have used the back road from Wauchope and avoided all cameras, including the tennis club. However, if he picked up WT behind the pre-school on railway st, then the only way to avoid detection by the tennis club cameras would be to travel down the highway to Kew or south past Kew and do a U turn before the Camden Haven river and drive in from the eastern side, using the Kew camera image as a false alibi ?. They could then have driven back up towards the Oxley highway or up the Comboyne road on a 300km trip and avoided further camera detection. So, a slightly different theory is that the pre-school was the actual pick-up location on 13th and the image of RP passing south at Kew was the correlating image on his trip to the pick up location. They then drove around the tennis club camera and back up towards Wauchope on the back road and then up the Oxley.

Here is the image of the pre-school at 18 Railway St. with the shed behind.
I wonder if police did any forensic checks here ?

 

[stormbird]

63 Australian children who have vanished without a trace, News.com.au, 25 May 2023

"As the world marks International Missing Children’s Day today [25 May 2023], these are the 63 Australian children that vanished without a trace.

Some, like William Tyrrell are household names, etched in the minds of Australians. Others are less well known, but for their parents and families, the wondering and hoping and searching never ends. Even many years since their child was last seen, many still cling to the hope they will one day walk through the front door."

The profiles in the list show information from the missing persons register at the Australian Federal Police's National Missing Persons Coordination Centre (NMPCC) - long term missing persons who were aged 17 or under when last seen. (I can't work out how the reporter compiled the list. The only age-related search filter I can see on the register is "year of birth", which would only help if you can somehow tie it to the year of going missing. But whichever way it was done, good job!)

The profile for William was always a bit strange, in my opinion, because it limited the scope to just one possible scenario; and now it hasn't been updated to reflect the different police focus in recent years:

"Detectives from the NSW Police Force’s Homicide Squad are leading the investigation into William’s disappearance and they believe he may have been kidnapped."

 

[stormbird]

The issue with the Casino theory is that there are a stack of cameras on the Pacific Highway and they would have been recorded half a dozen times and yet there are only images of RP's vehicle in the local area. It would be good to know the times of the camera images to correlate the trip time and distance. Passing the southbound camera at Kew would have RP heading south towards Taree, but there is a large camera overpass before Taree, so he never made it that far. The north and southbound cameras at Port Macquarie might correlate to a day trip, but not to Casino as they would have been caught on the next camera before Coffs Harbour. However, if they drove up the Oxley Highway then they would have avoided being caught by any cameras. The distance from Kew to Armidale up the Oxley is about 300Km, so it's possible this was near the real destination. Interestingly, If Ray Porter picked up FA and WT behind the Kendall public school he would have used the back road from Wauchope and avoided all cameras, including the tennis club. However, if he picked up WT behind the pre-school on railway st, then the only way to avoid detection by the tennis club cameras would be to travel down the highway to Kew or south past Kew and do a U turn before the Camden Haven river and drive in from the eastern side, using the Kew camera image as a false alibi ?. They could then have driven back up towards the Oxley highway or up the Comboyne road on a 300km trip and avoided further camera detection. So, a slightly different theory is that the pre-school was the actual pick-up location on 13th and the image of RP passing south at Kew was the correlating image on his trip to the pick up location. They then drove around the tennis club camera and back up towards Wauchope on the back road and then up the Oxley.

Here is the image of the pre-school at 18 Railway St. with the shed behind.
I wonder if police did any forensic checks here ?

View attachment 1697584

Just on the location of highway cameras: the Traffic Volume Viewer by Transport for NSW has a map showing where the traffic counting stations are, and I think this is probably where the camera images are recorded.

The image of RP's car travelling north on 11 Sep 2014 (Daily Mail 09 July 2020) has a sidebar saying "Details: Site code 6127":

If you go to the Traffic Volume Viewer and do a search by "Station" (instead of "Location" or "Area") and type in 6127, that will bring up "Station ID 6127-PR", which is presumably the location of the car image. The station is on the highway and east of Herons Creek Road (which is where FA was living when William went missing) and could be reached by the highway entrance at Kew, which is south of the station.

 

[stormbird]

An update on Appeal: State of New South Wales v William Harrie Spedding (2022/00368706):

Last week the NSW Online Registry said there would be a second "directions (notice of appeal)", set for tomorrow, 31 May (post 8,131).

But now the Registry has no listing for that and the only dates still to come are 13 and 14 June, for the hearing.

 

[NRL Fan]

Just on the location of highway cameras: the Traffic Volume Viewer by Transport for NSW has a map showing where the traffic counting stations are, and I think this is probably where the camera images are recorded.

The image of RP's car travelling north on 11 Sep 2014 (Daily Mail 09 July 2020) has a sidebar saying "Details: Site code 6127":

If you go to the Traffic Volume Viewer and do a search by "Station" (instead of "Location" or "Area") and type in 6127, that will bring up "Station ID 6127-PR", which is presumably the location of the car image. The station is on the highway and east of Herons Creek Road (which is where FA was living when William went missing) and could be reached by the highway entrance at Kew, which is south of the station.

Below are the average speed cameras just north of Kew (left) and just north of Port Mac (right). Kew was commissioned only a month before WT went missing. If RP drove 300 km north on the Pacific Highway he would have been recorded at Kew, Port Macquarie, Kempsey, and possibly Harwood, which is adjacent to Yamba. Unfortunately, the cameras at Urunga and Valla were commissioned a few weeks after WT went missing, but it's not possible to bypass the north bound cameras between Port Mac and Kempsey anyway, because they added a camera on the old road just to the left (Telegrapgh point rd) and you can't bypass the highway to the next camera near Kempsey.




I've included the table below, which shows the cameras and date of commission.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'm inclined to think that the Frank Abbott trip perhaps didn't happen. Perhaps the trips two days after were just local. Surely there would have been some CCTV captures if they were part of a 300klm trip. Remember the police ended up instead focussing on FM. That doesn't mean I think RP death bed confession was entirely rubbish. I don't think that. Was he trying to point the finger up the coast whereas the burial site remains local and RP perhaps had an accomplice role? He had his reasons to confess as he did. It downplayed his involvement. Perhaps that was the reason?. Either way I think the possibility of FA taking WT is strong. The boys scream the next day in bushland a little bit scary

 

[NRL Fan]

I'm inclined to think that the Frank Abbott trip perhaps didn't happen. Perhaps the trips two days after were just local. Surely there would have been some CCTV captures if they were part of a 300klm trip. Remember the police ended up instead focussing on FM. That doesn't mean I think RP death bed confession was entirely rubbish. I don't think that. Was he trying to point the finger up the coast whereas the burial site remains local and RP perhaps had an accomplice role? He had his reasons to confess as he did. It downplayed his involvement. Perhaps that was the reason?. Either way I think the possibility of FA taking WT is strong. The boys scream the next day in bushland a little bit scary

I'm thinking that the lack of any supporting camera images or human sightings would be the reason for the police dropping this line of investigation, but the nurse's statement seems very compelling and indicates RP was probably having an end of life guilt moment. If you put yourself in a guilty FA situation, you would probably take the boy away at night and on a remote road or highway and you would certainly want to avoid driving past any highway cameras, so the lack of images is not surprising. The question is, where did they take WT ????. In RP's confession, he makes no mention of the destination point or what happened at that place, other than he gave them a lift, so he was definitely being coy. His vehicle is a regular two wheel drive so we know he didn't go off road. The destination point must have either been a drop off to a 3rd party or a remote disposal place. Perhaps FA might spill the beans on his death bed, but it's probably unlikely.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'm thinking that the lack of any supporting camera images or human sightings would be the reason for the police dropping this line of investigation, but the nurse's statement seems very compelling and indicates RP was probably having an end of life guilt moment. If you put yourself in a guilty FA situation, you would probably take the boy away at night and on a remote road or highway and you would certainly want to avoid driving past any highway cameras, so the lack of images is not surprising. The question is, where did they take WT ????. In RP's confession, he makes no mention of the destination point or what happened at that place, other than he gave them a lift, so he was definitely being coy. His vehicle is a regular two wheel drive so we know he didn't go off road. The destination point must have either been a drop off to a 3rd party or a remote disposal place. Perhaps FA might spill the beans on his death bed, but it's probably unlikely.

I agree. I think a deathbed confession clears conscience but in a way that minimises his role. The long trip lie if it was. He had guilty knowledge.

So what can we deduce? He was there on Friday, had RPs car and took WT. He had to pick RP up at 3 after dialysis so he must have subdued tied or drugged him to do that.There was a boys scream in bushland surrounding FA van the next day. So I think he must have taken WT back to his van or somewhere close by. He would be prone to do that because not owning a car meant he had to have a familiar place to take him that wouldn't at that stage need a car until he coerced RP to be accomplice

He made a number of stories about WT.

• That they need to check GOs place
• That there was a dead body smell near Logan's crossing off a path he walked
• He told two boys that WT was in a suitcase and buried somewhere.

There is also the fact:

• The schoolgirl body that he was suspected of murdering was dumped in the Hawkesbury River somewhere.ie in WATER
• His own son died at age 3 in circumstances where the inquest results were sealed.

I would love to know how he died. There could be a psychological connection....a repeat pattern of some ilk.

RP confession says to me that he was coerced to be accomplice that probably involved disposing of the body using his car.

Is he someone who brags about his exploits but teases with elements of truth? Insufficient information to determine that. But his need to constantly talk about aspects to do with WT disappearance suggests he may very well be.

 

[NRL Fan]

I agree. I think a deathbed confession clears conscience but in a way that minimises his role. The long trip lie if it was. He had guilty knowledge.

So what can we deduce? He was there on Friday, had RPs car and took WT. He had to pick RP up at 3 after dialysis so he must have subdued tied or drugged him to do that.There was a boys scream in bushland surrounding FA van the next day. So I think he must have taken WT back to his van or somewhere close by. He would be prone to do that because not owning a car meant he had to have a familiar place to take him that wouldn't at that stage need a car until he coerced RP to be accomplice

He made a number of stories about WT.

• That they need to check GOs place
• That there was a dead body smell near Logan's crossing off a path he walked
• He told two boys that WT was in a suitcase and buried somewhere.

There is also the fact:

• The schoolgirl body that he was suspected of murdering was dumped in the Hawkesbury River somewhere.ie in WATER
• His own son died at age 3 in circumstances where the inquest results were sealed.

I would love to know how he died. There could be a psychological connection....a repeat pattern of some ilk.

RP confession says to me that he was coerced to be accomplice that probably involved disposing of the body using his car.

Is he someone who brags about his exploits but teases with elements of truth? Insufficient information to determine that. But his need to constantly talk about aspects to do with WT disappearance suggests he may very well be.

Just to add to your points above. From my readings of the case, the dead smell in the bush near Logan's crossing was only ever mentioned by FA, so if we assume FA and RP disposed of him outside of the area, then it makes sense that FA would invent red herrings such as the dead smell close to home and discuss the case with local shop owners to try and give himself a false alibi. Thus his behaviour indicates guilt. But, if we assume RP's confession is correct, how did WT get to the shed behind the Kendall school if FA had no vehicle and why would FA take him there anyway for the pick up?. RP and FA both lived a good distance north of Kendall and if the boy's scream really happened at Logan's Crossing, FA wouldn't take him back to Kendall, so I'm thinking that scream was not from WT unless RP was lying about the pickup location.

Also, if the trip north was real, there might have been a 3rd party in or near Kendall that harboured WT and FA on the day and night of the 12th and WT was taken to the shed the following day or night where the pick up occurred. This could indicate a more complex paedophile ring was in operation and the destination of the RP trip might have been to another member of the group up north. You would think that police would have analysed mobile phone records but a group such as that would have used an app such as Viber for comms, to avoid leaving metadata fingerprints.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Just to add to your points above. From my readings of the case, the dead smell in the bush near Logan's crossing was only ever mentioned by FA, so if we assume FA and RP disposed of him outside of the area, then it makes sense that FA would invent red herrings such as the dead smell close to home and discuss the case with local shop owners to try and give himself a false alibi. Thus his behaviour indicates guilt. But, if we assume RP's confession is correct, how did WT get to the shed behind the Kendall school if FA had no vehicle and why would FA take him there anyway for the pick up?. RP and FA both lived a good distance north of Kendall and if the boy's scream really happened at Logan's Crossing, FA wouldn't take him back to Kendall, so I'm thinking that scream was not from WT unless RP was lying about the pickup location.

Also, if the trip north was real, there might have been a 3rd party in or near Kendall that harboured WT and FA on the day and night of the 12th and WT was taken to the shed the following day or night where the pick up occurred. This could indicate a more complex paedophile ring was in operation and the destination of the RP trip might have been to another member of the group up north. You would think that police would have analysed mobile phone records but a group such as that would have used an app such as Viber for comms, to avoid leaving metadata fingerprints.

I lean to RP lying about pickup location and the trip. I think RP wanted to clear his conscience and explain away any WT DNA in his car after his death. So an innocent trip would do that........."I didn't do anything wrong.....just gave a lift to his friend and a boy". RP could say his only involvement was a lift and whatever FA did was at that distant location. It distances himself from the crime. In truth I suspect he was an accomplice else the confession wouldn't have been so laboured.

Yes agree with suggestion about dead body smell......was a red herring perhaps to attract interest to a location different to actual location. The comment about checking out GOs place I believe was a subtle threat to GO who would hear about the remarks. GO needed to keep quiet that FA was scheduled to go there to Benaroon or GO may be implicated in his death a body being put on his property.

There is an aspect to the suitcase burial idea that intrigues me. If you are going to bury a child it's much more sensible to do so without a suitcase on land. A suitcase would however be sensible in WATER. Why? Puncture marks in body allows gas to escape (preventing floating), weight in the case with that body will keep the case at bottom of waterway especially if you then punch holes in case to allow gas to escape and water to enter. FA and RP were fishermen. Perhaps they had a regular fishing location on Camden Haven River with a Tinnie and dropped the weighed down suitcase in that river. Remember that 17 yo murder victim was dumped in water. But he learnt all about preventing floating from that earlier time. That's where I'd look. A regular fishing spot close to a Tinnie if they had one. I therefore think it possible that the location least likely ( scaring two boys with false bravado) may have gave a clue to WTs true resting place

I would look at where these two went fishing especially if they had a Tinnie they used that was tied safely on a river bank. Did RP car have a tow bar? ......on those trips?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/camden-haven-nsw-australia--450782243943584959/

That's a picture of the mouth to river. It ultimately winds around and passes through Kendall further inland. The average depth is 3.5 metres. Kendall approx 13 Klm away. It would be muddy bottom. Unlike say a dam, the sediment build up over time would take a long while to fully bury a suitcase. The suitcase would get trapped in the sediment but possibly be visible. Comments welcome from anyone more familiar with river dynamics.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Is it possible that the north and south bound trips captured on CCTV on the Sunday were RPs trips to Port Macquarie hospital for dialysis?.....rather than the 300klm north as put forward by RP?

 

[Awakening]

Was RP getting weekly dialysis?

I’m just wondering if RP deliberately or accidentally gave the wrong date for this trip and that it’s possible FA kept WT for a week, 2, 3 weeks before this trip was made.

Also how long would traffic cameras hold information for?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Was RP getting weekly dialysis?

I’m just wondering if RP deliberately or accidentally gave the wrong date for this trip and that it’s possible FA kept WT for a week, 2, 3 weeks before this trip was made.

Also how long would traffic cameras hold information for?

Don't know for sure but when I looked it up it said 3 times per week.for dialysis

Yeah the later time period occurred to me too. All we have is the positive CCTV but you would expect they checked probably a couple of weeks.

 

[NRL Fan]

Is it possible that the north and south bound trips captured on CCTV on the Sunday were RPs trips to Port Macquarie hospital for dialysis?.....rather than the 300klm north as put forward by RP?

I can probably answer both questions here. RP lived in Wauchope and would drive on the Oxley Hwy to Port Mac hospital and not drive past any of those cameras, so him being picked up on the north and southbound cameras would indicate a trip for another purpose. In terms of the river, I go fishing there regularly on a small runabout and there are a series of lakes that have a tidal flow in and out and then there is the main river (Camden Haven) that can flow very hard after rainfall. For example, during the more recent 2021 floods, the towns of Dunbogan and North Haven became submerged when the lakes and river rose by 3-4m above the high tide mark and that completely flushed out everything. My house up there is on high ground near the river mouth and was lucky to escape damage. If a suitcase was tossed into the main river it would eventually get washed out to sea and then possibly up onto a nearby beach. However, if it was tossed into a lake it might survive longer before being washed out to sea, but would probably be seen in the shallow water at low tide, because those lakes are all very shallow and have exposed sand and mud flats at low tide. When you consider the vast amount of bushland and fire trails up there, you would think it's easier and safer to bury a body in the bush, rather than dump one into the river or lake and hope for the best.

btw - I did a bit more analysis of the drive north theory and it is possible to bypass the cameras from Port Mac to Kempsey, if you drive through Wauchope and up to Telegraph point and then through Kempsey, rather than the highway bypass. However, there were cameras further north at Urunga and Valla that were also active - contrary to what I noted earlier. The cameras were removed after 2019 when the Nambucca heads to Urunga freeway bypass was added, and they were on the old road and could not be bypassed from what I can see on google maps. Thus it's 99% certain that they couldn't get this far north without being caught on camera, which is about 140km from Kew.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I can probably answer both questions here. RP lived in Wauchope and would drive on the Oxley Hwy to Port Mac hospital and not drive past any of those cameras, so him being picked up on the north and southbound cameras would indicate a trip for another purpose. In terms of the river, I go fishing there regularly on a small runabout and there are a series of lakes that have a tidal flow in and out and then there is the main river (Camden Haven) that can flow very hard after rainfall. For example, during the more recent 2021 floods, the towns of Dunbogan and North Haven became submerged when the lakes and river rose by 3-4m above the high tide mark and that completely flushed out everything. My house up there is on high ground near the river mouth and was lucky to escape damage. If a suitcase was tossed into the main river it would eventually get washed out to sea and then possibly up onto a nearby beach. However, if it was tossed into a lake it might survive longer before being washed out to sea, but would probably be seen in the shallow water at low tide, because those lakes are all very shallow and have exposed sand and mud flats at low tide. When you consider the vast amount of bushland and fire trails up there, you would think it's easier and safer to bury a body in the bush, rather than dump one into the river or lake and hope for the best.

btw - I did a bit more analysis of the drive north theory and it is possible to bypass the cameras from Port Mac to Kempsey, if you drive through Wauchope and up to Telegraph point and then through Kempsey, rather than the highway bypass. However, there were cameras further north at Urunga and Valla that were also active - contrary to what I noted earlier. The cameras were removed after 2019 when the Nambucca heads to Urunga freeway bypass was added, and they were on the old road and could not be bypassed from what I can see on google maps. Thus it's 99% certain that they couldn't get this far north without being caught on camera, which is about 140km from Kew.


View attachment 1703989

Thanks so much for doing that. So it seems that the trip was north just not as far as thought. RP perhaps exaggerated the extent to once again distance himself from his association with FA. Was the 300 Klm a round trip? 140 there and 140 back?

It would be extremely useful to know when the CCTV captures happened.

When I looked at the lakes I concluded way too shallow and tidal flow and visibility would preclude. Pretty much totally agree

Further inland where the riverbed is likely muddy sediment and the tidal flows less severe I had thought that maybe the case would become embedded in mud and thereafter difficult to be shifted with normal river flow though floods as you say would still be a risk.

Agree that the bushland in the area offers endless possibilities for hiding a body successfully with or without burial, with or without using a case. Accessibility becomes an issue. RPs car was I understand a station wagon which limits you would assume access to some of the more remote areas that would appeal as a hiding place. Dumping on land also has the drawback of cadaver smell and possible detection by virtue of that and known vantage points access roads. So whilst the area is vast the potential dump sites are limited both by access roads and type of car used. It's possible though that tossing a case over a verge into a bushy inaccessible ravine is entirely possible. In that case road access hardly needed.

 

[NRL Fan]

Thanks so much for doing that. So it seems that the trip was north just not as far as thought. RP perhaps exaggerated the extent to once again distance himself from his association with FA. Was the 300 Klm a round trip? 140 there and 140 back?

It would be extremely useful to know when the CCTV captures happened.

When I looked at the lakes I concluded way too shallow and tidal flow and visibility would preclude. Pretty much totally agree

Further inland where the riverbed is likely muddy sediment and the tidal flows less severe I had thought that maybe the case would become embedded in mud and thereafter difficult to be shifted with normal river flow though floods as you say would still be a risk.

Agree that the bushland in the area offers endless possibilities for hiding a body successfully without without burial, with or without using a case. Accessibility becomes an issue. RPs car was I understand a station wagon which limits you would assume access to some of the more remote areas that would appeal as a hiding place. Dumping on land also has the drawback of cadaver smell and possible detection by virtue of that and known vantage points access roads. So whilst the area is vast the potential dump sites are limited both by access roads and type of car used. It's possible though that tossing a case over a verge into a bushy inaccessible ravine is entirely possible. In that case road access hardly needed.

In fine weather, you can drive a regular sedan on almost all of the fire trails in the middle brother forest area, so there would be no issues in finding a quiet area. I guess the RP story really comes down to 3 possibilities.

1) The 300km north part was made up to distract attention away from the real disposal area, which was closer to Kendall
2) The 300Km north referred to a 300km round trip, which would mean an area possibly near Valla, south of Coffs Harbour. This trip might explain the north and southbound camera images taken on the 14th, which being a day trip would more easily be accomodated by his dialysis treatment schedule.
3) The trip was 300km up the Oxley Hwy and beyond to the north west.

 

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Is it possible that the north and south bound trips captured on CCTV on the Sunday were RPs trips to Port Macquarie hospital for dialysis?.....rather than the 300klm north as put forward by RP?

The alleged trips were up on Saturday, back on Sunday. According to Overington, (Ch7 Doco):

"CCTV images were obtained after Ray's death of his white station wagon driving North on the highway one day after William went missing, and then coming back again the following day. You can't see from the photographs who is driving, we don't know whether there is a child in the back seat, or anywhere else in the car. But years later, just hours before he died, Ray remembered this exact trip, on this exact highway, on those exact dates. The problem is, Ray Porter didn't use names in his confession. He said 'my best fishing mate and that little boy from the television'... And there's still nothing to prove those people were Frank Abbot and William Tyrrell".

Overington is saying that the CCTV evidence is consistent with Porter's deathbed confession that he actually did make a trip North on the Saturday and back on the Sunday. The doco shows still pics of the CCTV evidence so it is probably real.

If CCTV images were sought and obtained by police, they would presumably have looked further than just these dates and locations and looked at possible other explanations for the trip. If the trips were for dialysis (unlikely), or any other 'routine' purpose, he would have returned on the same day. If he was hospitalised overnight, there would be hospital records proving this.

But the CCTV evidence suggests Porter (or at least his car) went North on the Saturday (the day after William vanished) and returned on the very next day (Sunday). And this is consistent with Porter's recollection of events, years later. So I think the trip most likely did happen. The only doubt is about the purpose and nature of the trip, and who was actually in the car.