Disgraceful (racial) outbursts by SA media at their selection.

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Scrumhalf

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The Daily Telegraph[/img said:
Boks in racial selection debate
By Rupert Guinness
October 29, 2004

RACISM has again divided South African rugby when it should be united following the Tri-Nations series win by the Springboks under new coach Jake White.

Debate has raged across the Republic this week over the record selection of black players for two upcoming representative tours.

White has named 11 black players in the 33-man Springboks squad for next month's tour of Great Britain for Tests against Wales, Ireland, England, Scotland and Argentina.

Twelve black players were also picked in a 29-man South African A touring party to go to Argentina.

The merits of a quota system for black players have long been argued.

But White's latest selection - despite including his entire winning Tri-Nations squad - has raised fresh suspicion that it has now been taken to too high a level too soon.

The attacks on White must have brought him back to earth from the euphoria of August 21 when the Springboks beat the Wallabies 23-19 at home to claim their first Tri-Nations title since 1998.

One day White was a national hero for dragging the Springboks out of the racially fuelled mess that embarrassingly derailed their 2003 World Cup under coach Rudolf Straeuli.

The next day White was a villain.

"White the hell ..." read one headline in The Star of Johannesburg, relating to an article questioning the non-selection of several players, including Currie Cup top tryscorer, centre Ettienne Botha.

The Star also demanded to know whether the Government had pressured White to pick more black players. Other headlines were: "Bok selection causes outcry", "Jake's shock Boks" and "Surprise selections for Bok squad." White could have been excused for feeling alone.

As Peter Bills of The Star wrote in an article titled "Get off the White-bashing bandwagon" that defended him, "They might as well have dipped their pens into Jake White's blood, such were the criticisms."

White has passionately stood by the selections this week, telling The Cape Argus: "It was a huge step forward for this country and it was seen as a step back. I cannot see how people can make such a big thing of this. The whole Tri-Nations squad was again selected."

The issue yesterday saw the South African Rugby Union accuse its local media of "racist tendencies".

"Certain players, particularly African players, have been singled out as 'not suitable' and subjected to mockery by people believing they have no place in the Springboks," said SARFU chief executive Mveleli Ncula.

"It is shocking we still have, in our midst, people who believe Africans don't belong in the Springbok team, when the African community has had more than a century of involvement in rugby.

"More shocking is the behaviour of certain individuals in influential positions such as the electronic media in South Africa. Their pronouncements on the selection of black players is shocking.

"These are the same people who would jump at the opportunity to shake the hand of Nelson Mandela, and the next moment publicly shout against the ideals of the elderly statesman - forgetting our rugby is back in the community of nations because of the efforts of people like Nelson Mandela."
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Well done Jake White.

WALES v SOUTH AFRICA, SATURDAY 6 NOVEMBER 2004

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

1. Os du Randt
2. John Smit (captain)
3. Eddie Andrews
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield
6. Schalk Burger
7. Juan Smith
8. Joe van Niekerk
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Jaco van der Westhuyzen
11. Ashwin Willemse
12. De Wet Barry
13. Marius Joubert
14. Breyton Paulse
15. Percy Montgomery

Reserves:

16. Hanyani Shimange
17. CJ van der Linde
18. Gerrie Britz
19. Tim Dlulane*
20. Michael Claassens*
21. Jean de Villiers
22. Brent Russell /Gaffie du Toit

* New Caps
 
SARFU CEO's response.

NculaMveleli310502PortraitTbg.jpg

It is with dismay that we have noted the disturbing reaction and utterances in certain rugby circles about the selection of black players in the Springbok squad to tour the United Kingdom and Argentina next month.

Certain players, particularly African players, have been singled out as “not suitable” and subjected to mockery by people believing that they have no place in the Springbok team. It is shocking that we still have, in our midst, people who believe Africans don’t belong in the Springbok team, when the African community has had more than a century of involvement in rugby.

Perhaps more shocking is the bahaviour of certain individuals in influential positions such as the electronic media in South Africa. Their pronouncements on the selection of black players is shocking. These are the same people who would jump at the opportunity to shake the hand of Nelson Mandela, and the next moment publicly shout against the ideals of the elderly statesman – forgetting that our rugby is back in the community of nations because of the efforts of people like Nelson Mandela.

After ten years of democracy, it is a great concern that there are people who are still married to racist modes of thought, forgetting that the foundation of the new South Africa they now enjoy is the ethos of non-racialism. It is sheer opportunism and bigotry that some of our compatriots want to enjoy the fruits of our new democracy, and yet refuse to accept that black players can just be as excellent as their white counterparts. Such racist tendencies should be exposed.

The end-effect of such behaviour and utterances is the demoralising of the black players in the Springbok squad. They must know that we are fully behind them. They proudly belong to AmaBoko-Boko, like any other player from the white community.

We are not about to relent on our mandate from the people of South Africa to transform the game to characterise the nature of our newly-free and open society. The change in our society must be reflected at all levels. When the sun shines in the morning, the gift of the sunrays should benefit all, not just some, as was the case in our Apartheid past.

We call upon all South Africans to support our national rugby heroes, black and white. We support Jake White in his effort to get the best out of our boys, and his commitment to transformation of our game.
 
Nothing surprises me when it comes to South Africa, must the old school still run the game?

If they don't want blacks playing their precious game, their all welcome to come and play Rugby League, or AR as our sports don't stop you playing our game's cause of colour.

Thats 1 thing that Rugby League and AR have in common, all are welcome to watch,play and support their teams like everyone else, UNION DON'T DO THIS.

Get it through your thick skulls Melbourne or Perth, do you really want these upper class Arse holes playing these mind games with your kids when they play,watch or go to training?

You might not like league, but 1 thing you can say about it is....it doesn't discriminate against minorities and coloured ppl, boys or girls, old,young OR CLASS everyone can have their piece of the cake.
 

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ParraEelsNRL said:
Nothing surprises me when it comes to South Africa, must the old school still run the game?

If they don't want blacks playing their precious game, their all welcome to come and play Rugby League, or AR as our sports don't stop you playing our game's cause of colour.

Thats 1 thing that Rugby League and AR have in common, all are welcome to watch,play and support their teams like everyone else, UNION DON'T DO THIS.

Get it through your thick skulls Melbourne or Perth, do you really want these upper class Arse holes playing these mind games with your kids when they play,watch or go to training?

You might not like league, but 1 thing you can say about it is....it doesn't discriminate against minorities and coloured ppl, boys or girls, old,young OR CLASS everyone can have their piece of the cake.
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Thankyou for being honest Eels, because as you know all of us rugby union fans (and all of us involved in the game) can be put into a single basket. It is in fact true that we are all white, male, middle aged and from British aristocratic backgrounds. At the same time we've also all supported communism, and the Nazis, which may be quite contradictory, but that's just the way we all are. We're all racist, bigoted, sexist and sadistic and thankyou for pointing that out, because we wouldn't want to be misrepresented. :rolleyes:

Idiot.
 
ParraEelsNRL said:
Nothing surprises me when it comes to South Africa, must the old school still run the game?

If they don't want blacks playing their precious game, their all welcome to come and play Rugby League, or AR as our sports don't stop you playing our game's cause of colour.

Thats 1 thing that Rugby League and AR have in common, all are welcome to watch,play and support their teams like everyone else, UNION DON'T DO THIS.

Get it through your thick skulls Melbourne or Perth, do you really want these upper class Arse holes playing these mind games with your kids when they play,watch or go to training?

You might not like league, but 1 thing you can say about it is....it doesn't discriminate against minorities and coloured ppl, boys or girls, old,young OR CLASS everyone can have their piece of the cake.
Click to expand...

Tell me you are not serious? I may be a thick skulled Melburnian, but I have followed my local rugby union team for the last 23 years and IMO you have got it wrong on so many levels it's not funny. I have always been made welcome at the club - and shock horror - I'm female & very definitely middle class. And, for the record, I have seen players and supporters who are young, old, male, female & of differing backgrounds play rugby in Victoria.

You cannot take what happens in South African rugby as being representative for rugby union everywhere (nor even as being repsresentative of every South African's point of view).
 
sassi said:
Tell me you are not serious? I may be a thick skulled Melburnian, but I have followed my local rugby union team for the last 23 years and IMO you have got it wrong on so many levels it's not funny. I have always been made welcome at the club - and shock horror - I'm female & very definitely middle class. And, for the record, I have seen players and supporters who are young, old, male, female & of differing backgrounds play rugby in Victoria.

You cannot take what happens in South African rugby as being representative for rugby union everywhere (nor even as being repsresentative of every South African's point of view).
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Never mind him, he's only a Leaguie troll. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah you are all so accomadating when it comes to your game arnt you?

I go to union sites sometimes to have a look and see what they are saying, most the time it's nothing but bashing league and it's supporters.

You say it's not like that with the rugga ppl at the games?

why is it that my wife can go to a league game, have fun, enjoy herself without anything being said to her but when i read some ruggar forums, they come out with things like, all females are slappers that go to league but all the young ladies go to the rugga?

nice isn't it.

I did not have a go at any person with my post, i was saying the truth about what SA is all about.

Everyone knows that SA is a racist country don't they?

Did i say england or australia or nz or scotland should all drop rugby union?

NO I DIDN'T

THICK skulled Melburnian was a joke, and if you can't take that............................to ********ing bad.

I had an opinion, is that now taken away from me because i think differently to you ppl?

As i can see by the way the union supporters act, It's okay for union supporters to class "ALL LEAGUE SUPPORTERS AS LOWER CLASS, SLAPPERS ETC.But whenever the shoe is on the other foot, They get all upset, and as the good old saying goe's "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

And yes im a Leaguie(and proud of it) Why you think i come in here?to see the news and have a say if I like.

since some have called me an idiot here and started personal attacks.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2307043.stm

http://www.villeneuve-leopards.com/news/imprimer.php?id_news=17

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1787148.stm

http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/09/1092022401574.html

I'll find those SA links if i can on how they use to put glass on the feild so ppl wouldn't play league.

Im sure there are some very nice ppl who go to the rugby union, just a pity that there are arse holes in every sport, i don't hate anyone who plays union

I HATE THE PPL WHO RUN THE SPORT WHO NEVER GIVE UP BAGGING LEAGUE

and the media who seem to have so much power when it comes to union.ie bagging league, and continually telling the world bull******** about how BIG their game is, when it's not much bigger than Rugby League.
 
I could very well make the same assumptions about League fans, if I were to judge them by the posts of a few muppets on League message boards, but I don't and there's no point. Same with things that happened in the past- do we forever go bagging certain nationalities because of what happened half a century ago or more??? Hell no.

Point being that just because there are a few insualar morons among Union administrators in certain parts of the world- and let's face, it you'll find them everywhere in EVERY sport- it doesn't mean you have to tarnish all of them with the same brush.

And "not much bigger than League"??? Don't get me started- Union's played on all six continents by people of all racial and cultural backgrounds, from all walks of life. I mean, are all the people playing Union on the Pacific Islands or wherever "upper class toffs?". Do people playing League in more affluent parts of Sydney automatically "plebeian"? :rolleyes:
 
On the subject of the dismay at these selections being 'racist' I think the other side of the argument needs to be shown, I read a big article about this issue yesterday & it is unarguable that some of the african players picked are clearly not as good as some of the white players left behind.

The problem is that SARFU & politicians aren't being clear, they pretend that the coach is given free reign to pick his squad but it's well know that he has to pick a certain number of black & coloured players, if they were upfront about this & admitted that they felt it necessary for the transformation process then fair enough but as it is they're pretending that all these blokes are being picked on merit which isn't the case.

They picked one bloke a winger out of nowhere, don't think he even plays Currie Cup & the coach said 'we picked him because he's got a bit of pace', at the same time a white centre in the Currie cup final broke the cover & raced though for 60 metre try, so you can assume that he's got a bit of pace as well as being a good player but he didn't make the trip.

Some people might favour picking black/coloured players who aren't as good as some of the whites left behind & that's their view which they're entitled to but I also believe that people who have the view that they should pick the best players regardless are also entitled to that opinion.

What I don't respect is peopel trying to BS that this squad is picked soley on ability when it's not.
 
ParraEelsNRL, read your original post again. You began with an attack on the SA rugby union media and culture, and then turned it into a generic attack on all things to do with rugby union.

There are so many contradictions and irony's in your two posts in this thread it's ridiculous. Particularly with regards to union forums going on bagging league, when in fact it is much, much more evident the other way round in league forums.

See for yourself. Go to the planet-rugby message board, and then go to the totalrl.com board or the leagueunlimited.com board. One eyed league fans are far more obsessed with rugby union than union fans are with league, I have absolutely no doubt about that. You suffer from the same problem. It's called an inferiority complex.
 
I go to those sites you mentioned and all i can say is......everybody gives as good as they get.(i dont post i lurk ;) )

leagueunlimited's fight club is for fun(some take it overboard as you will agree with)

The 1 thing that has stopped me supporting the wallabies is the constant bs sprouted out ever since superleague(it does get tiresome)

I did go over the top with Perth and Mel(their i said it)can you forgive me ;)

Just once i would like the ppl who run rugby union to come out and say, in the past blah blah blah, we now have new ppl running the game and we will do all in our power to have a fresh start with Rugby league, we beleive working with the old enemy can help us both.

Some how i don't think this is going to happen, do you?

Maybe you see things different from me, but i just had a look at rugbyheaven and a hell of a lot of posts their are talking about pecking the eyes out of league and killing it off, taking all the supporters from league to union(when they follow league there not good enough but you can change over to us and well forgive you for following league)

Yes i had a go then, but as you see it goe's both ways.

They must be really young or really old(old school) and it isn't going to help ppl forget the past if we keep reading things like this.

By the way i'm not stupid nor do i have an inferiority complex.

By the way srumhalf, i'm really looking forward to the footy this weekend, GBvNZ in the League tri nations.
 
Mate, what do you want the ARU to apologise for? Trying to better a competitor? I mean, the ARU had nothing to do with anything in South Africa either in the present or the past, they had nothing to do with what supposedly occured in France (although I've never seen or heard of any solid, objective evidence regarding that and neither have you) or any of the crap that supposedly went on in the UK. You'll probably find that one eyed Australian RU fans give it more to league than RU fans of any other country because we live in the only country where league is bigger than rugby. Regarding Australia alone a lot of "rah rahs" probably have a bit of an inferiority complex, while globally it's the other way round...but even then, I don't think even Australian union fans give it as much to league as Aussie league fans give it to union. You go back 10 years and it never happened, but as soon as rugby went professional and gained a fair bit of market share, a lot of Australian leaguies got insecure, and now as you said you only have to look at "fight club" to see it.
 

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Jake White was forced to change the line up of his team, after the SA government objected to a side that only contained one non white player.

He had to reinstate Pulse to keep up with the 'unofficial' requirement for 2 non white players.He had left him out primarily to allow a bigger & more physical white winger play to cope with England's crossfield kicks.


I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who feel that this kind of thing is justified to continue the transformation process, but the bottom line is that there's a bloke out there who's lost out on a cap due to the colour of his skin.
Personally I don't believe in positive discrimination, where does it end?Do you end up with a situation like they have in Zimbabwe cricket?

Maybe England should refuse to play them.
 
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