Domestic violence

[CM86]

Agree, but how? It would be helpful to have practical advice on what parts we can all play while also expecting our politicians to address societal factors that are linked to domestic violence.

The problem is that there is a lot of practical advice that can be hard to conceptualise. Especially with the way our society views violence against women through a lens of male persecution.


Whenever an issue is raised about inequality towards women, it's instantly framed as diminishing or taking away from men.
It's the same with any conversation around diversity or affirmative action.
We no longer just look at an issue and try to think of a way to improve or resolve it. It's now always a culture war.
Progressives and conservatives are both to blame for this.



Any time the issue of violence against women is raised, someone will 'defend' men. It does not matter how it's raised or discussed. You cannot discuss violence against women, without discussing men.*
There will always be a way to connect the message to an 'attack on men', because violence against women is entwined with men and society.
We have accepted that our society has been conditioned to a knee-jerk reaction to any mention of men when discussing violence against women. But that is not normal.


Most individuals will point out that they wouldn't take offense etc, and that they'd understand even the more extreme statement like "all men need to reduce their violence against women". But they need to coach it with the excuse that many people won't understand and will react negatively.
But instead of pushing the message and explaining the misunderstandings, we have to console them and let the astroturfing grow.
We need education not ignorance.


The reason we can't move past the 'us vs them' rhetoric, is because it would allow us to then discuss the deeper roots that lead to these outcomes.
That is that we live in a male dominated society where women are still not equal to men.
But it's impossible to discuss this, while we are dominated by the narrative that it's men who are powerless and under attack.
It's to keep us focused on the outcomes so we ignore the cause.


I believe these violent outcomes are due more a cultural/societal/economic cause than a genetic predisposition for violence against women.

We're all very good at giving lip-service to supporting equality etc, but then go and laugh at the latest "woman's initiative" marketing campaign.




*just in case someone brings up same sex etc. I'm talking in general, not individual cases.

 

[CM86]

Here's the kind of thing I'd like to discuss but can't because of the insane bubble of 'anti-male feminazi' these topics are always held in.

The scenario is that a mum is cooking dinner, a dad is watching some female sport on TV with his young son.​

The dad is laughing and making jokes about the ridiculousness of the women playing this sport, and how pathetic they are. The son joins in with a joke and gets a huge laugh and feeling of acceptance from his dad.​

On its own, this is just a fun evening. But a growing collection of incidents like this over a child's life can help them develop the view that women aren't equal to men.

 

[faible]

Here's the kind of thing I'd like to discuss but can't because of the insane bubble of 'anti-male feminazi' these topics are always held in.

The scenario is that a mum is cooking dinner, a dad is watching some female sport on TV with his young son.​

The dad is laughing and making jokes about the ridiculousness of the women playing this sport, and how pathetic they are. The son joins in with a joke and gets a huge laugh and feeling of acceptance from his dad.​

On its own, this is just a fun evening. But a growing collection of incidents like this over a child's life can help them develop the view that women aren't equal to men.

The dad seems like a dick to me, I know heaps of female athletes and they work hard af.

 

[the_interloper]

Here's the kind of thing I'd like to discuss but can't because of the insane bubble of 'anti-male feminazi' these topics are always held in.

The scenario is that a mum is cooking dinner, a dad is watching some female sport on TV with his young son.​

The dad is laughing and making jokes about the ridiculousness of the women playing this sport, and how pathetic they are. The son joins in with a joke and gets a huge laugh and feeling of acceptance from his dad.​

On its own, this is just a fun evening. But a growing collection of incidents like this over a child's life can help them develop the view that women aren't equal to men.

Is this a real scenario?

 

[peetoo]

Guys the approach may be admirable. Attitudes may be changing (is there any measures of this)

BUT

We still have an acute crisis of extreme violence. Many saying getting worse

Can’t we ask if this ‘sharing the blame’ is missing a very real problem. Or if not missing it, an inadequate response

Habitual aggressors who may well be calculating and picking soft targets.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Whenever an issue is raised about inequality towards women, it's instantly framed as diminishing or taking away from men.

The interpretation will differ from person to person, I'd argue most would not interpret this way

We no longer just look at an issue and try to think of a way to improve or resolve it. It's now always a culture war.
Progressives and conservatives are both to blame for this.

It doesn't have to be, I certainly don't view this as such, I view DV as a big f*n problem

someone will 'defend' men.

Ignore them if you must.

There will always be a way to connect the message to an 'attack on men'

That doesn't mean it has to be connected.

The reason we can't move past the 'us vs them' rhetoric, is because it would allow us to then discuss the deeper roots that lead to these outcomes.

Society as a whole SHOULD be discussing the deeper roots, instead of tip toeing around the problem like egg shells in fear of retribution.

But it's impossible to discuss this, while we are dominated by the narrative that it's men who are powerless and under attack.

This is definitely, definitely NOT the narrative.

but then go and laugh at the latest "woman's initiative" marketing campaign.

Who does this? Old neanderthal types would be my answer, it's the old neanderthal types that need - at the very least education, even if it needs to be 'forced'

That is that we live in a male dominated society where women are still not equal to men.

This has been the case since time began, it is not a 'cause' for aholes to be aholes

Is this a real scenario?

In the 50s maybe.

 

[CM86]

I'm trying to avoid my shitpost spamming. I delete posts if I realise they're just problematic or bait. I'm trying to be less aggressive and lecturing.
I know I'm disliked on these forums, for fair reasons.
But do you guys always just have to try to troll me when I attempt to engage?

 

[faible]

But do you guys always just have to try to troll me when I attempt to engage?

You raised a scenario and said you'd like to discuss it.

What is it you'd like to discuss about it?

I'd say most younger people these days would think the dad is a dick. There's going to be a lot of older blokes with that kind of attitude, and yes there'll be younger blokes with that kind of attitude too.

Seeing the massive groundswell of support for the Matildas, seeing the massive amount of publicity Caitlin Clark has brought to the WNBA, seeing the impact the AFLW is having on the participation levels in AusKick among young girls. These things all tell me female sport is being taken more and more seriously, as we see more women come through proper elite pathways the way the men do, we'll see the standard of female sport increase, and the old dinosaurs disregarding women playing sport will be fewer and fewer.

NAB AFL Auskickers break all-time registered participation record

125,000 young Auskickers across the country have pulled on their boots this season to break the all-time registered participation record for the NAB AFL Auskick program

www.afl.com.au

 

[CM86]

You raised a scenario and said you'd like to discuss it.

What is it you'd like to discuss about it?

I'd say most younger people these days would think the dad is a dick. There's going to be a lot of older blokes with that kind of attitude, and yes there'll be younger blokes with that kind of attitude too.

Seeing the massive groundswell of support for the Matildas, seeing the massive amount of publicity Caitlin Clark has brought to the WNBA, seeing the impact the AFLW is having on the participation levels in AusKick among young girls. These things all tell me female sport is being taken more and more seriously, as we see more women come through proper elite pathways the way the men do, we'll see the standard of female sport increase, and the old dinosaurs disregarding women playing sport will be fewer and fewer.

NAB AFL Auskickers break all-time registered participation record

125,000 young Auskickers across the country have pulled on their boots this season to break the all-time registered participation record for the NAB AFL Auskick program

www.afl.com.au

It's a hypothetical of a seemingly harmless event based on pre-existing prejudice that is still held by some people and still accepted by some parts of society, and how a collection of these moments over time can lead to the continuation of societal inequality based on prejudice.

And how this prejudice and view of women being unequal to men could play some part in the violence against women.

I'm not saying it's getting worse. I'm questioning if these collections of moments could contribute, or not.
I wasn't talking about the growth or restriction of women's sport in this DV thread, it was just part of the hypothetical.

 

[evolved2]

I'm trying to avoid my shitpost spamming. I delete posts if I realise they're just problematic or bait. I'm trying to be less aggressive and lecturing.
I know I'm disliked on these forums, for fair reasons.
But do you guys always just have to try to troll me when I attempt to engage?

I find you a likeable poster and I don't believe you're being trolled on this thread.

 

[Kram]

I'm trying to avoid my shitpost spamming. I delete posts if I realise they're just problematic or bait. I'm trying to be less aggressive and lecturing.
I know I'm disliked on these forums, for fair reasons.
But do you guys always just have to try to troll me when I attempt to engage?

There's a lot of dead set creeps that inhabit this board but you are alright.

 

[CM86]

The interpretation will differ from person to person, I'd argue most would not interpret this way

Ok.

It doesn't have to be, I certainly don't view this as such, I view DV as a big f*n problem

Ok.

Ignore them if you must.

Ok.

That doesn't mean it has to be connected.

Ok.

Society as a whole SHOULD be discussing the deeper roots, instead of tip toeing around the problem like egg shells in fear of retribution.

Ok.

This is definitely, definitely NOT the narrative.

Ok.

Who does this? Old neanderthal types would be my answer, it's the old neanderthal types that need - at the very least education, even if it needs to be 'forced'

Ok.

This has been the case since time began, it is not a 'cause' for aholes to be aholes

Ok.

 

[CM86]

The dad seems like a dick to me, I know heaps of female athletes and they work hard af.

Yes.

I should have been clearer. I only referenced female sport for the scenario to give an example of diminishing women being casually accepted.
My point was in relation to overall collective diminishment, and how it may be part of a cause that leads to the outcome of domestic violence.

 

[CM86]

Is this a real scenario?

It is a hypothetical that I believe is reasonable enough to actually happen in our lifetimes.

 

[dropbear101]

personally i think multiple things can be true.

saying men have a problem with DV is for me, okay.

saying thats gendered profiling is also true. life is messy and thats the way it is. sometimes you need to break a few eggs to actually deal with a problem.

 

[the_interloper]

It is a hypothetical that I believe is reasonable enough to actually happen in our lifetimes.

So how did this add to the discussion?

 

[CM86]

So how did this add to the discussion?

Yeah yeah, laugh away.
As long as you're getting some entertainment out of me.

 

[Chief]

So how did this add to the discussion?

You don't think, given some of the comments from many BF users about AFLW that this sort of thing doesn't happen?

 

[the_interloper]

You don't think, given some of the comments from many BF users about AFLW that this sort of thing doesn't happen?

I have no idea to be honest, it doesn't happen in my house.

 

[the_interloper]

Yeah yeah, laugh away.
As long as you're getting some entertainment out of me.

Wasn't laughing, just wondering what your point was

 

[CM86]

Wasn't laughing, just wondering what your point was

OK mete.

I'm not sure what you think the laughing emoji is for.
It doesn't normally get to me, but it has been lately. So well done, win for you.

I've tried to explain it twice since the post.

I believe I'd even made it reasonably clear enough in the original post, in the context of this thread.

On its own, this is just a fun evening. But a growing collection of incidents like this over a child's life can help them develop the view that women aren't equal to men.

If it needs more explaining.
People viewed unequally are treated unequally.
This may play a part in some of the causes behind the violence against women (outcomes).

 

[Carringbush2010]

It is a hypothetical that I believe is reasonable enough to actually happen in our lifetimes.

This scenario does happen in real life, half a century ago it was an accepted norm.

And that is the 'casual ' attitude that is a factor in this problem that you point out.

Now? If anyone found out that you we're treating your kid and wife this way, your mates would probably give you a severe beating and would no longer be your mates.

 

[the_interloper]

OK mete.

I'm not sure what you think the laughing emoji is for.
It doesn't normally get to me, but it has been lately. So well done, win for you.

I've tried to explain it twice since the post.

I believe I'd even made it reasonably clear enough in the original post, in the context of this thread.


If it needs more explaining.
People viewed unequally are treated unequally.
This may play a part in some of the causes behind the violence against women (outcomes).

Sorry you are quite correct I did do the laughing emoji on one of your posts.

Upon a review I stand by my use of it though.

 

[Northalives]

Here's the kind of thing I'd like to discuss but can't because of the insane bubble of 'anti-male feminazi' these topics are always held in.

The scenario is that a mum is cooking dinner, a dad is watching some female sport on TV with his young son.​

The dad is laughing and making jokes about the ridiculousness of the women playing this sport, and how pathetic they are. The son joins in with a joke and gets a huge laugh and feeling of acceptance from his dad.​

On its own, this is just a fun evening. But a growing collection of incidents like this over a child's life can help them develop the view that women aren't equal to men.

Spot on.

 

[Northalives]

Is this a real scenario?

Of course it is.

Those who were born pre 1980 I reckon, and there's a lot of them around, what CM86 described is par for the course. It may seem strange to some, but this type of scenario was common and still exists.

It exists in certain ethnic cohorts and it exists in the yobbo cohort as well as those I referred to in the last paragraph.

Domestic violence against women has been happening in Australia since colonialism and that macho type of male domination over women has not ended. Look at the exclusive boys clubs.

Domestic violence isn't only men assaulting women (assault is not just physical, it is mental as well), domestic violence is also women assaulting men - it's violence, full stop and the blame should not be apportioned just to men.

It is a societal problem that has it's roots in the type of scenarios as brought up by CM86.

DM is a learned action. It is not bred into people, it is taught to people from their elders and re-enforced or initiated by the overwhelming reach of violent media, printed and electronic and unless we make a concerted effort to curtail this insidious intrusion as well as educate, then this will just keep happenning.

In the short term, we must take all complaints of violence seriously and not see some violence and bulling, as trivial because it only perpetuates the tragic scenarios that are played out everyday.