Drafting

[Frodo]

I think sometimes we are too hard on the Eagles on drafting. Every year there are around 6 to 10 top rookies in the draft and the rest are a real gamble. 10 seasons in the finals has left poor crumbs. Dont forget that the bottom eight plus priority picks snap up those top ten first unless you trade. Good example is Freo boasting about drafting Pavlich and Haselby, but they got those two first with an extra pick for only five wins. Who wouldn't recruit well with those picks. Look at the two guys St Kilda got after last year, top recruits. On draft day there is always a list of the top players available, the best are well known and have been specially tested with results well known. No matter how clever your draft manager may be those top six will go to the clubs with the first picks. A decade ago we wasted choices on Brennan etc but in recent years we have got Cuz, Gardy, Glass, Morrison, Wirra,Kerr, Braun and some good looking players coming through from the WAFL. Take the gifts of Pavlich and Haselby out of Freo's recruiting and what's left to compare with the Eagles. Not a lot I would say.

 

[Visro]

We still picked up a hell of a lot of duds though! There was an article on it at www.realfooty.com.au about drafting blunders the club made:

The well runs dry in the west

By ROHAN CONNOLLY

When West Coast last hit rock bottom, back in mid-1989, salvation was only just around the corner.
The Eagles had won two of 14games when they travelled to Windy Hill for what turned out to be the most infamous game of their brief history, kicking a paltry 1.12 for the afternoon to be thrashed by Essendon by 142points.

But the recovery was swift. The Eagles won five of their last seven matches. At the end of the season, they made probably the most important appointment of their history, the installation of Mick Malthouse as coach, along with a new, ultra-professional football department.

Not insignificantly, West Coast began to reap the benefits of an army of talented youngsters it had stockpiled through various recruiting means.

The turnaround was of a scale even the Eagles could not have imagined, leading to 10 consecutive finals appearances, three grand finals and two premierships over the next decade.

Now it's crisis time again. And while the West Coast brains trust is fully aware of the scale of its problems, a Western Australian football public becoming increasingly impatient as it waits for an about-face of similar proportions is likely to be in for a rude shock.

No mass cleanout of the football department is going to have much consequence now, the Eagles already having as professional and thinking a football unit as any other club.

A shocking run of injuries might not have helped, but it's the quality of the list that is breaking West Coast now, its best players still mostly its ageing stars, supported by a couple of young guns, and very little else. And compared with 1989, the well is a lot drier.

When West Coast sat down at the 1989 national draft table, it already had the security blanket of four emerging stars it had been able to pre-list the preceding year - Don Pyke, Peter Sumich, Craig Turley and Scott Watters.

It had further comfort in the knowledge that other clubs could draft only one Western Australian, many at the time too broke to afford one anyway.

That gave the Eagles pretty much carte blanche in their own backyard, a situation they capitalised upon, picking Peter Matera at No.4, and a great value pick in Brett Heady at No.92.

They also made the most of their entitlements, snapping up Ashley McIntosh under the father-son rule, and picking up Dean Kemp with one of three concession selections earned because three other clubs did not exercise their right to pick one Sandgroper.

The recruiting riches were rounded out over the next two drafts when West Coast selected Mitchell White, Glen Jakovich and Jason Ball, all of them zone selections that the Eagles nominated before others had a chance to snap them up.

In total, eight players from the Eagles' two premiership sides were the result of recruiting concessions.

And while there remains plenty of debate about to what extent those concessions made the Eagles what they were, West Coast readily concedes that its recruiting since, without the benefit of that extra help, has left plenty to be desired.

``Perhaps our policy was the wrong policy,'' West Coast chief executive Trevor Nisbett told The West Australian this week. ``We were probably picking the type of player that we needed instead of picking who we thought was talented.

``Collectively, when we decided to go down the path that we needed a wingman, a utility, a centreman and a centre half-back, we made a mistake. And we have to wear that.

``We should have just picked the best player available. We targeted that way for a number of years. We might have had four or five rovers instead of trying to fill a specific position on the field. We might have had three centre half-backs, but that doesn't matter.''

The sorry facts are these. Between winning its last premiership in 1994 and the end of 1998 (it's still too early to realistically assess the fruits of the 1999 and 2000 drafts), West Coast had a total of seven top-20 draft selections. Only two - Michael Gardiner (a ``gimme'' at No.1) and Callum Chambers - remain on the list.

Collectively, those picks have mustered only 69 games for the Eagles, an average of fewer than 10 each.

To rub salt into the wound, possibly the three best players the Eagles have picked up in that time - Ben Cousins, David Wirrpunda and Chad Morrison - who, with Gardiner, have been the only Eagle youngsters to make a lasting impact, were all the results of drafting concessions.

Cousins was picked up under the father-son rule, the other pair as compensation for a trade to the fledgling Fremantle.

The Eagles' better pick-ups in the past few years have tended to come further down the draft order - Michael Braun selected at No.53, Phillip Read (60), and Andrew Embley taken only at No.57.

West Coast's Melbourne manager Stephen Nash, one of Malthouse's right-hand men, says the recruiting rot began to set in when clubs stopped dealing with the Eagles, scared by the prospect of their further success.

``In the last four years or so, clubs weren't that keen to do deals with us,'' he said. ``We'd gone through a stage where we traded a couple of players to Sydney - Scott Watters and Tony Begovich - and we were able to get Drew Banfield in the first round. After that, clubs were wary. We weren't able to trade down to get lower picks.''

But even allowing for that, West Coast's recruiting when the draft has been less compromised and more ``open slather'' has been a disaster. Shane Sikora was the No.12 draft pick in 1994, Luke Trew pick No.14 in 1995, and Brandon Hill No.10 in 1998.

Only Sikora played senior football, and only two games at that. The Eagles picked Brendon Fewster at No.3 in 1994. He played 33 games before being traded to Fremantle. Jaxon Crabb was picked at No.12 in 1997, but cut after 15 games.

Those failures have left the West Coast list stuck in a time warp. And ironically, it may well be another concession, this time for failing to win at least 25 per cent of its matches this season, that helps the Eagles extract themselves.

Footscray Brownlow medallist, Perth commentator and long-time Eagles' critic Brad Hardie believes that in that case, West Coast has no option but to lure a ``superstar'' coming out of contract from a competitor, and to tread a far less conservative path than it has in recent years.

``They've got to get the best available talent around, and they've got to take a few risks,'' he said. ``They've got to cut off quite a few of these `name' players and trade them while they've got some value.''

At least, with this season already shot to bits, the Eagles have a good four months to work on their new recruiting strategy. But unlike 1989, this time they will not be able to pick the eyes out of the talent pool. Coming back this time will be much, much harder.

``Your core business is your football team, and we've got to get it right,'' said Nash. ``We might have to make some tough decisions on players, and make some decisions which hopefully won't put us in this position again for a long time.''

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If you read that article I think you will find we really did stuff up our drafting 4 to 5 years ago.

Vis

 

[Frodo]

I don't agree Vis. If you get to the meat of what the article says the Eagles are lambasted for the failure of four draft picks, 10, 12, 12 and 14. It then says we got concessions for Fewster when it was an excellent trade. As I said in my first post, the cream of the draft is the top 6 to 10 and the rest are a gamble. Non of those picks were top draftees. We took a gamble. Some pay off like Heady and Embley. Most others, picked by any club, fail. The failure rate of draftees from pick 10 upwards is around 80% so the Eagles are no worse than the average.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

It's true the "best" players are picked up with the first 6 or so picks, but of the 600 or so players on AFL lists, how many would of been top 6 picks? 60 in the last 10 years, thats only 10% of players. This means that 90% of players are picked up much lower, and this is where the eagles have failed. On our list we have superstars, duds, fringe players, but almost no 2nd tier players. The gap between our top 6 players and the next 6 is too big.

Go ahead and make a list of our 12 best players, rank them from 1 to 12 and look at the difference of the abilities of the first 6 and the last 6.(of course leave out McIntosh, Kemp, Jako and Roo, they are past their best).

1.Cousins
2.Gardiner
3.Wirrpunda
4.Morrison
5.Phil Matera
6.Kerr

And this is where it gets tough, because the rest are so far behind in terms of ability.

7Williams?
8.Read?
9.Embley?
10.Collica?
11.Taylor?
12.Wooden?

Sorry if i strayed off the topic a bit, i was trying to prove that a top 6 pick is not everything a club needs to have a good list.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Oh keep quiet, you're all depressing me

I think the key problem is that in our good years we were unwilling to persist with some "lesser" draft picks and help them develop. Cutting someone like Jaxon Crabb was a mistake, but it was an acceptable mistake at the time because we didn't need many players beyond our best 25 to 30, such was the talent level there. If draftees did not meet the club's high standard, they got cut. There was no need to try and jack up the talent level of our squad's fringe, so we didn't, they simply either shaped up or shipped out. This created a revolving door in the last 10 or so slots in the squad, which most draftees went in and out of very fast.

 

[ONE EYE]

Great stuff Visro.

Trew, Sikora, Crabb and Hill. Monumental stuff ups. They never looked like they were going to make it.

But what now. Do we move heaven and Earth to get Shane Woewoden. He is holding out on the Demons. Surely the Dockers would not be stupid enough to Draft another midfielder. With retiremnets of Kemp and McIntosh that leaves a big hole in the Salary Cap. If we can pick up Darren Gasper as well. I would also go for Des Hedland I think in his own environment he will come on better and I would not think we would have to pay the Earth for him. Perhaps one good player. You bloody beauty. I would give up our first two draft choices for them plus sacrifice some other players. I would not go for experienced players to prop up the list again like we did this year. Some may think it hasnt worked but without Prior, Taylor Collica Merenda we would be far worse off than we are now. They have given the kids another year to develop. With some of the quality youngsters we have it will not take much for us to get back in Finals contention in 2003.

Next year I would go for Hay and Black. West Coast is a great Club with terrific facilities and management. We are really an attractive proposition to those who have an urge to come home.... We're the Eagles West Coast Eagles... Boy I am passionate

Again I say Kerr, Glass, Gasper, Buszan, Cox. Etc Etc. We will be right we have a very professional Club. But in the last few years of Malthouse our recruiting was as bad as Neeshams. And that is saying something. Judgey will get it right just wait and see.

GO EAGLES

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Good post One Eye, you have slightly boosted my morale.

Lets hope that its true about getting back into the top8, i wouldn't want to wait 40yrs (like the bulldogs and St.Kilda) for our next premiership.

 

[jod23]

I think we should make a huge run at Darren Gaspar. Richmond arent particularly world beaters and although they may make the finals for the first time in a few years they dont look like premiership material. So why not come home and play with your brother at one of the most professional clubs in the league. We'll have plenty of money for him after Milli and Kemp probably retire. So why not?

 

[GoEagles]

Go after Woewodin is my say. With Kemp and Matera heading towards the end of their careers we will need an established midfielder to compliment Cousins and Braun. Melbourne aren't travelling too hot at the moment, board room struggles, he's a WA boy, we could match Melbourne in what they are offering him.

 

[jod23]

Why not get both, we need a midfielder to replace Kemp and a backman to replace Milli. Both WA boys, Darren can come and play with his brother, Woey can get away from a rather troubled club.

I think them two, good draft picks, youngsters continuing to come on and the stars we already have (Cousins, Gardy, Wirr) we would have a good run at the final 8 next year.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I don't think we have a chance of snaring Woewodin, he's a brownlow medalist, club B&F and probably will captain Melbourne next year. There is nothing we can offer the demons that would persuade them to trade him to us. In the event that melbourne do agree to trade him, what do you think are the odds that he will willingly leave the club? I cannot see us getting Woewodin, especially with Daniher as coach, he seems to be liked by players so there is no reason why any of them would want to leave.

Gaspar on the other hand would be easier to get from richmond, but would we want him? He's too old in my opinion. With McDougall, Gaspar and Glass we have enough capable players to fit into defense. And we will probably have the 2nd and 4th draft picks this year, so we could draft really good talls key position players.

This year the eagles filled the 24-27 age group void we had, they are unlikely to stock up in this department again this year. I suspect KJ will dump older players like Turnball, WIlson and Donnelly and replace them with draftees.

 

[Frodo]

So what trade would Melbourne accept for Woewodin? Maybe Morrisson and our first draft pick? This is where the extra pick gets useful.

 

[Frodo]

I was just reading an article which I think a part of shows just how imortant the top six players in a draft are. It showed the top 7 picks from 1997, a year when we were finalists and had poor picks. They were :-
1)Travis Johnstone
2) Brad Ottens
3) Trent Croad
4)Mark Bolton
5)Luke Power
6)James Walker
7) Kris Massie

I don't rate Walker that much but the rest are very good players. Bolton would walk into any other AFL side but Essendon are so strong in depth.
But look at the class of the top three. Every year there are just a few real certainties and early draft picks secure them.