English Question

[sbagman]

Those familiar with languages such as Italian, French, and many others, will know that there is a formal conjugation of the verb which is supposed to be used when speaking to someone "higher" than you (how that is defined varies). In Italian, this means using the third person singluar. So in English, instead of saying "would you like a drink" you would say "would sir like a drink" (third person). I was talking to my German housemate the other night, and apparently German has even more formality. Apart from the regular formal conjugation, there is an even higher conjugation used when meeting royalty. Jokingly, I asked if royalty therefore had to use a different conjugation when speaking to themselves, and he replied "Yes... in first person plural".

None of this exists in English I thought. But when I think about it, I could imagine a servant saying "would sir like a drink?". So perhaps it does exist. And as for the royalty speaking (or referring) to themselves, didn't Queen Victoria say "WE are not amused", referring to herself?

So my question is, did this changing of conjugation ever exist in English, does it still technically exist, and why is it hardly ever used now?

Cheers,
Sbagman.

(This has also been posted on the Society and Culture board).

 

[Squeak]

Originally posted by sbagman


(This has also been posted on the Society and Culture board).

Probably a good idea if a response is what you're after.

 

[sbagman]

I just got one!

 

[Katthawk]

Hmm. One would present an answer if one understood what sir was actually asking. So one is still bemused and confused.

 

[Squeak]

Or should that be:

Probably a good idea if a response is what youse are after.

 

[sbagman]

No need for the formality, Squeak. You can use second person singular with me, I don't mind.

 

[Bomber Spirit]

In this thread, he talks about himself in the third person.

 

[Jars458]

What's a conjugation?

 

[W. W. Biscuit]

Originally posted by Jars458
What's a conjugation?

A conjugation is an inflection of the verb to mark tense, person, voice (active or passive), mood (modal verbs such as 'would', 'may') or number. English has a relatively simple verb system - compared to, say, Latin or Semitic languages. The one that gets a lot of ESL learners is the conjugation for 'third person present singlular' - e.g. 'He GOES to the footy.'

Words like 'sir' and 'you' are pronouns, and aren't conjugated in the technical sense. Changes to the form of nouns and pronouns are called 'declensions.' Nice and confusing???

The use of pronouns can certainly be affected by degrees of formality in English - depending on social context or the channel of discourse (e.g., the use of the impersonal pronoun in academic papers - "ONE does not agree"). This example is the closest thing we have to formal marking of pronouns to account for the social status of the person you are addressing. It is not as fixed as the marking of gender - i.e., 'he', 'she.'

Sbagman - IMO English is lacking several worthy pronoun declensions. We DESPERATELY need a second person plural, although travelling through Frankston the other day, it seems alive and well. Certainly gives a new meaning to the phrase 'user friendly.'