Epigenetic Memories - Environmental 'memories' passed between generations

[Chief]

This is the sort of thing that gives us an idea of how each being isn't just a sum of their life decisions, and how the environment and habits of earlier generations affect descendants.

For me, this is where science and morality intersect. While the consequences of one's actions here and now must be faced, the blame for someone's actions doesn't always rest solely at their feet.

I don't know the science on how many generations, say, the effects of a lifetime of smoking and drinking linger. I believe there are studies about the grandchildren of famine victims still showing the effects in things like birth weight and growth rate.



http://www.sciencealert.com/scienti...netic-memories-passed-down-for-14-generations

The most important set of genetic instructions we all get comes from our DNA, passed down through generations. But the environment we live in can make genetic changes, too.

Researchers have now discovered that these kinds of environmental genetic changes can be passed down for a whopping 14 generations in an animal – the largest span ever observed in a creature, in this case being a dynasty of C. elegans nematodes (roundworms).

 

[Snake_Baker]

.......this is where science and morality intersect.

You're entering dicey territory here.

"I plead not guilty your honor, based on the hereditary propensity of my methyl groups and histone expressions"

 

[Chief]

You're entering dicey territory here.

"I plead not guilty your honor, based on the hereditary propensity of my methyl groups and histone expressions"

But that's precisely what I'm NOT saying.

 

[Snake_Baker]

But that's precisely what I'm NOT saying.

What is your take on the generational changes shifting back to "normal" function?

Isn't that "normality" also inherited?

 

[Chief]

What is your take on the generational changes shifting back to "normal" function?

Isn't that "normality" also inherited?

I don't know - I'm happy to hear the thoughts of wiser people.

From what I recall of what I read the effects of famine meant getting back to "normal" was an uphill battle.

What it could mean is a better view of blame and consequences. You can't make a person better through brutality or extra-judicial punishment.

"Evil" might not exist? Dunno.

But social services, universal health care and the like might be a lot better investment than we can ever guess.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I highly doubt science would reveal anything you mention in the foreseeable future.

This field is still in its infancy.

 

[Chief]

I highly doubt science would reveal anything you mention in the foreseeable future.

This field is still in its infancy.

I think science has a lot more to contribute to the discussions of morality, fairness, and equality than many people think.

 

[GreyCrow]

the blame for someone's actions doesn't always rest solely at their feet.
.

But that's precisely what I'm NOT saying.

I thought you were at least heading down this road though?

Professor Yehuda studies the impact of traumatic experiences on war veterans, survivors of the Holocaust, of the September 11 attacks and their children.

She's found that children born after the war to Holocaust survivors with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) were more likely to develop PTSD or depression themselves, compared to other Jewish adults.

These children also shared epigenetic markers with their parents on a gene that made them more reactive to stress.

I think I read in NS somewhere an article talking about trying to find the epigenetic link surrounding criminality.

Something here

And here

 

[Chief]

I thought you were at least heading down this road though?

Professor Yehuda studies the impact of traumatic experiences on war veterans, survivors of the Holocaust, of the September 11 attacks and their children.

She's found that children born after the war to Holocaust survivors with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) were more likely to develop PTSD or depression themselves, compared to other Jewish adults.

These children also shared epigenetic markers with their parents on a gene that made them more reactive to stress.

I think I read in NS somewhere an article talking about trying to find the epigenetic link surrounding criminality.

Something here

And here

I'll look at your links later, but blame and consequences should be thought of as separate things.

People must face the consequences of their actions. Yes, there are obvious mitigating circumstances sometimes.

But the blame for their predicament doesn't always rest solely with them. So moral judgement or retributive justice is inappropriate.

A drug addict caught thieving should face the consequences - loss of liberty and so on. But this shouldn't automatically include inflexible moral labels and neglect of their need for addiction or trauma treatment. You don't reform people by neglect and brutality anyway.

It is the difficult path, and might not be politically possible until we reach some sort of new enlightenment.

 

[GreyCrow]

I'll look at your links later, but blame and consequences should be thought of as separate things.

People must face the consequences of their actions. Yes, there are obvious mitigating circumstances sometimes.

But the blame for their predicament doesn't always rest solely with them. So moral judgement or retributive justice is inappropriate.

A drug addict caught thieving should face the consequences - loss of liberty and so on. But this shouldn't automatically include inflexible moral labels and neglect of their need for addiction or trauma treatment. You don't reform people by neglect and brutality anyway.

It is the difficult path, and might not be politically possible until we reach some sort of new enlightenment.

I dont have an issue with this stance.

I worry its the nurture v nature argument redressed in different clothes. I see Yehuda for example try and associate PTSD through generations. I tend to think the original PTSD sufferer partakes in behaviours that are copied/mimicked by the following generations etc.

 

[Chief]

I dont have an issue with this stance.

I worry its the nurture v nature argument redressed in different clothes. I see Yehuda for example try and associate PTSD through generations. I tend to think the original PTSD sufferer partakes in behaviours that are copied/mimicked by the following generations etc.

Quite possibly. It's all up for investigation.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Okay, let's shift this sideways

 

[sprockets]

The first guy turned me off when he suggested that genes are only proteins and amino acids, which doesn't explain how they shape how you look, so pooh-poohed it... That's exactly what they do, among other things.