Finals system

[tigris]

What are peoples thoughts on the different finals systems having had both top 5 and top 4 in SFL now?

Have played top 5 in a previous comp and I reckon it gives too big of an advantage to top spot over 2nd. Think of St Pauls this year going into a GF with 3 hard games in a row where as St Kilda having 1 hard game and 2 weeks of rest, huge advantage. Granted the second week off was earnt and could have been earnt by St Pauls instead.

Top 4 (the way SFL do it anyway) i believe gives an advantage to 3/4 over 2nd. The winner of 3/4 gets a week of rest and watch 2nd first hand before the prelim whilst 2nd have to face up to another tough game straight after the loss, would much rather be coming from 3 than 2 in this situation. There is also no advantage of finishing 1st v 2nd.

I don't have a perfect solution for the SFL, top 4 would be better if both 1v2 and 3v4 were on the same weekend. How do people think top 5 has worked out this year? It would seem in both div 1 and 2 that the team finishing 1st is going to win it, is this due to the massive advantage finishing on top gave them, or is it purely because this year the top team has been that much better?

 

[Board room]

What are peoples thoughts on the different finals systems having had both top 5 and top 4 in SFL now?

Have played top 5 in a previous comp and I reckon it gives too big of an advantage to top spot over 2nd. Think of St Pauls this year going into a GF with 3 hard games in a row where as St Kilda having 1 hard game and 2 weeks of rest, huge advantage. Granted the second week off was earnt and could have been earnt by St Pauls instead.

Top 4 (the way SFL do it anyway) i believe gives an advantage to 3/4 over 2nd. The winner of 3/4 gets a week of rest and watch 2nd first hand before the prelim whilst 2nd have to face up to another tough game straight after the loss, would much rather be coming from 3 than 2 in this situation. There is also no advantage of finishing 1st v 2nd.

I don't have a perfect solution for the SFL, top 4 would be better if both 1v2 and 3v4 were on the same weekend. How do people think top 5 has worked out this year? It would seem in both div 1 and 2 that the team finishing 1st is going to win it, is this due to the massive advantage finishing on top gave them, or is it purely because this year the top team has been that much better?

The advantage aint much greater if anything it doesnt help the top sides as much

 

[Carltondraught]

People don't say SFL is the worst footy league in australia for nothing....

 

[superfreak]

People don't say SFL is the worst footy league in australia for nothing....

There would be over 100 leagues that are worse than the SFL (WRFL, NFL, RDFL included).

As you are an Ammos man, make sure your own house intact before you have shots at other comps. Outside A/B Grade (dominated by OB teams), Ammo footy is rubbish.

Ask yourself this...if you take all the old boy teams out of the ammos what do you have left??? Stuff all.

The cashed up OB teams with their jobs for the boys and scholarships for kids are all that separates the VAFA and the SFL/WRFL/EDFL/NFL/RDFL.

Lets take a look at the suburban teams in the Ammos, and where they would fit in the SFL.....

A Grade
-

B Grade
HAMPTON ROVERS (Around finals Div 1)
ORMOND (Around Finals Div 1)

C
OAKLEIGH (Around Div 1)
BEAUMARIS (Around finals Div 1)
AJAX (Middle of road Div 1)
PARKDALE (Struggle Div 1/Finals Div 2)
BULLEEN TEMP (Finals Div 2)

D1
RUPERTSWOOD (Mid range Div 2 )
WERRIBEE (Mid range Div 2)
FITZROY (Mid range Div 2)
STH MELB DIST (Mid- low Div 2)
PRAHRAN (Mid- low Div 2)

D2/D3/D4
Who Cares.

 

[MountPrettyBoy]

In regards to the top 4, it should be 1 v 2 in the first week and then 3 v 4 in the second week.

And just for arguments sake, the top rated team of each games win, 1 will get 2 weeks break and 2 will still get 1 weeks break.
Whilst, 4 gets knocked up and 3 will face 2 a week later.

This rewards the top 2 teams with a break each considering they finished top 2, and 3 & 4 are rewarded anyways with playing finals which is a privilege anyways (as I'm sure every other club would love to play finals).

 

[Return of the Pies]

so what about all the players getting paid in all divs of SFL? hows that different? idiot.

It's not. It's just SFL people don't prance around being all high and mighty, and pretending otherwise. Your response clearly didn't disagree with SF's assertion on player rewards.

And your the one who came on here looking for a debate, so don't start dishing out the insults just because someone disagrees.

Go back to the RangeRover for your hot choccy buddy, mummy will be worried.

 

[Cousin Tiger]

so what about all the players getting paid in all divs of SFL? hows that different? idiot.

OB clubs have a lot more to spend than in the SFL.

 

[superfreak]

so what about all the players getting paid in all divs of SFL? hows that different? idiot.

On average Div 1 SFL club's would fork out roughly $50,000 each year on players. Not sure about lower divisions but my guess the lower you go the less paid players there are.

At some clubs every player is paid ranging from $20 to $$$$$ (plenty!). Other clubs only pay certain players (but my guess is they pay them very well), others reward performance with pay.

This means the average SFL Div 1 club has to make at least $50,000 to cover costs. That is a shitload of hard work at BBQ's, raffles, social functions, chocolate drives, canteen and behind the bar.

Compare this with an OB's club who can offer jobs through their network (at no cost to the club) and scholarships at their school (they arent exactly cheap). In essence they have to do sweet FA.

Thats what separates suburban clubs from OB clubs and ammo footy in general. At suburban clubs, there is alot of blood, sweat and tears put in by volunteers that simply love the club and do it for free to see the club succeed unlike OB clubs who have it all handed to them by their association with the school and networks.

That is why suburban clubs are true footy clubs and are what the game is all about. OB clubs are not.

You must remember that a footy club is a not for profit organisation (or at least it is in our neck of the woods). Its not the club with the most cash in the bank that prospers. Its the one who spends what they have made wisest.

 

[tigris]

I didn't intend on this being a VAFA vs SFL sledging match, how about back to the topic at hand?

 

[Return of the Pies]

Good point.
Final 5 much better. 1st spot should get a meaningful advantage over second, other than just home shorts & rooms.
2 extra finals means more clubs, players, spectators and sponsors etc. getting exposed to SFL finals footy, all good things.
More gate $$ which in turn feeds back (in the main) to clubs via direct distribution and/or cap on affiliation fees needed to run the SFL.

 

[superfreak]

Final 5 is better....just needs a few tweaks.

 

[Veiw]

so what about all the players getting paid in all divs of SFL? hows that different? idiot.

You are a typical Ammo tosser as super pointed out the suburban clubs just make up numbers in your shitty comp.
i see clubs such as Bentleigh, parkdale south districs are doing great in D and c grades. great move to leave the SFL ... fill the Ammo coffers for the big clubs....
Teams that should be smart and join the SFL are the ones i mentioned
as well as Oakleigh, Glen eira, Chadstone,
HAMPTON ROVERS Ormond,BEAUMARIS
PRAHRAN
At least these clubs will get respect and a fair chance to play in a higher grade.

 

[ManInWhite]

I can be cynical and suggest that a final5 means more income for the league. Also consider that in a number of previous years with a final 4, the semi finals have been played over the 1 weekend.

I sometimes question the benefit of a weeks rest too. Last year in EFL, 3/4 of the teams that lost the GF didn't have to play the week before in the prelim. Seemed that most teams coming in via the prelim had extra momentum.

 

[SMUU28]

In regards to the top 4, it should be 1 v 2 in the first week and then 3 v 4 in the second week.

And just for arguments sake, the top rated team of each games win, 1 will get 2 weeks break and 2 will still get 1 weeks break.
Whilst, 4 gets knocked up and 3 will face 2 a week later.

This rewards the top 2 teams with a break each considering they finished top 2, and 3 & 4 are rewarded anyways with playing finals which is a privilege anyways (as I'm sure every other club would love to play finals).

Like your thinking, if divvy 3 going to stay top 4 (which it will unless another two teams join) 1vs2 should play first week or all semi finals on same weekend. If the semi's are to be played on the same weekend and the sfl want all divisions grand finals on the same weeked an extra round can be scheduled or an extra break mid season!! As it is at the moment 3rd gets a distinct advantage as can be seen with Black rock coming from 3rd to win it in 07 and canterbury making the gf from third last year.

 

[Master of Cooks]

Out of the 2 finals campaigns that the SFL run, the final 5 is alot better.

If the final 4 was run over 3 weeks instead of 4 then the answer might be different, but the way that the SFL run the top 4 makes a mockery of finals footy.

The only problem i see with the top 5 at the momnet is that in a 10 team comp its probably a bit too easy to scape intot the finals.

If you want to compare the SFL and the VAFA, at least you can say the VAFA have the finals running as they should.

 

[Cousin Tiger]

I played in each week of the finals this year after we finished 3rd.

Our opponents went like this:

Cheltenham
Chelsea
Cheltenham
Chelsea

Bit repetative, and i always worry that like our seniors, we would beat a team, only to have them beat us later in the second match up of the finals.

So we have played 3 weeks straight, going into the GF, with Chelsea having only played 1 game in 3 weeks.

I think the final 4 was fine, and the final 5 is just a way in which the league can make some money, and involve an additional team.

 

[tigris]

Like your thinking, if divvy 3 going to stay top 4 (which it will unless another two teams join) 1vs2 should play first week or all semi finals on same weekend. If the semi's are to be played on the same weekend and the sfl want all divisions grand finals on the same weeked an extra round can be scheduled or an extra break mid season!! As it is at the moment 3rd gets a distinct advantage as can be seen with Black rock coming from 3rd to win it in 07 and canterbury making the gf from third last year.

Same in 09. The problem with 2 weeks off, as someone else pointed out, often even 1 week off has proved troublesome having no momentum, but I believe that comes down to team preparation more than anything. But 2 weeks off could be too much for some teams.

 

[Cousin Tiger]

so, SFL clubs dont have friends with jobs to offer players? **** that doesnt surprise me. couldnt you hook them up with a centrelink dole form?

you're a ********** man, if you don't like sfl etc get the @#$% off our board..............

 

[therealthing88]

St Pauls Colts have done it the hard way and have earned the right to play in the finals after finishing 4th. Beating: Murrumbeena (5th), Dingley (3rd) and Skye (2nd) to now play St Kilda City (1st) who have played 1 game in 3 weeks.

Hopefully the momentum keeps going for St Pauls.
But it could've been a different story if only the 4 teams with 3rd v 4th the first round of finals. I don't mind the top 2 teams getting a double chance, doesn't mean anything in the end still need to earn your spot in the Granny

 

[NERDY]

]St Pauls Colts have done it the hard way and have earned the right to play in the finals after finishing 4th. Beating: Murrumbeena (5th), Dingley (3rd) and Skye (2nd) to now play St Kilda City (1st) who have played 1 game in 3 weeks.
[/B]
Hopefully the momentum keeps going for St Pauls.
But it could've been a different story if only the 4 teams with 3rd v 4th the first round of finals. I don't mind the top 2 teams getting a double chance, doesn't mean anything in the end still need to earn your spot in the Granny

Yeah whereas the St. Kilda City Colts have played once in the last 3 weeks. Maybe three tough matches in a row will give St. Pauls an advantage? I don't know. I think the Final 5 is good though, maximizes $$$ for the SFL.

 

[The_Cat]

C
OAKLEIGH (Around Div 1)
BEAUMARIS (Around finals Div 1)
AJAX (Middle of road Div 1)
PARKDALE (Struggle Div 1/Finals Div 2)
BULLEEN TEMP (Finals Div 2)

D1
RUPERTSWOOD (Mid range Div 2 )
WERRIBEE (Mid range Div 2)
FITZROY (Mid range Div 2)
STH MELB DIST (Mid- low Div 2)
PRAHRAN (Mid- low Div 2)

You've just made guesses based on ladder positions, so A for effort in doing some research on the Ammo's website, but a fail for actually being able to provide an accurate summary...

OAKLEIGH, BEAUMARIS & PARKDALE would beat the likes of Mordialloc & Chelt quite convincingly with their speed, plus they play hard physical footy which is quite similar to the SFL, so that would put them in finals Div 1 going on your theory.

AJAX are easily intimidated by physical pressure, so they wouldn't cope with the physicality of the SFL - Div 2 finalist yes, but Div 1 would be too tough for them.

Bulleen Temp would be bottom of Div 2 at best.

And from D1, Rupertswood are a lot better than you give them credit for and they would sit quite comfortable in Div 1 also.

Prahran would be middle of the road Div 3.

But I digress... for the sake of the topic, I think Final Four is the best method... I'm not a fan of rewarding mediocrity, and when you give a final spots to half of the Division like in Div 1, then you only need to be a middle of the road team to play finals.

 

[superfreak]

You've just made guesses based on ladder positions, so A for effort in doing some research on the Ammo's website, but a fail for actually being able to provide an accurate summary...

OAKLEIGH, BEAUMARIS & PARKDALE would beat the likes of Mordialloc & Chelt quite convincingly with their speed, plus they play hard physical footy which is quite similar to the SFL, so that would put them in finals Div 1 going on your theory.

AJAX are easily intimidated by physical pressure, so they wouldn't cope with the physicality of the SFL - Div 2 finalist yes, but Div 1 would be too tough for them.

Not at all Cat. I have seen all those teams play this year and that is what I based my opinion on.

Beaumaris beat Chelt in a praccy game earlier this year but as both teams were missing players its hard to judge a true result. Agreed that they are a quick young side (certainly not tough). Would definitely be in the finals mix.

Oakleigh have done very well to get where they have but wouldn't beat the top four in Div 1 (thus why I said they'd be around the finals mix). There are a few blokes getting a game in their side (Bentham for one....ex St Pauls ressies) who wouldn't get near a game at the top 5 Div 1 clubs.

Parkdale....you have to be kidding. Mid range Div 1 at best. To compete at the top level in div 1, you have to have a good mix (10+) of good players..not just 3 or 4 like Parkdale have. Rochford is a gun though.

Agree on Ajax and there lack of physicality, but the SFL Div 1 isn't has hard as some like to think so the fact that they don't enjoy body contact that much doesn't really matter. (Just look at Chelt and Dingley )

Saw Rupo once this year and stand by my assessment..although I may have been a touch harsh. They would definitely play Div 2 finals.

The rest are pretty much on the money.

From below D1....Bentleigh is another. Won the D3 flag fairly easily this year but have struggled in the past at D2. In the SFL they would be a middle of the road Div 2 team.

Sorry for hijacking the original thread.....carry on!

 

[Cousin Tiger]

Not at all Cat. I have seen all those teams play this year and that is what I based my opinion on.

Beaumaris beat Chelt in a praccy game earlier this year but as both teams were missing players its hard to judge a true result. Agreed that they are a quick young side (certainly not tough). Would definitely be in the finals mix.

Oakleigh have done very well to get where they have but wouldn't beat the top four in Div 1 (thus why I said they'd be around the finals mix). There are a few blokes getting a game in their side (Bentham for one....ex St Pauls ressies) who wouldn't get near a game at the top 5 Div 1 clubs.

Parkdale....you have to be kidding. Mid range Div 1 at best. To compete at the top level in div 1, you have to have a good mix (10+) of good players..not just 3 or 4 like Parkdale have. Rochford is a gun though.

Agree on Ajax and there lack of physicality, but the SFL Div 1 isn't has hard as some like to think so the fact that they don't enjoy body contact that much doesn't really matter. (Just look at Chelt and Dingley )

Saw Rupo once this year and stand by my assessment..although I may have been a touch harsh. They would definitely play Div 2 finals.

The rest are pretty much on the money.

From below D1....Bentleigh is another. Won the D3 flag fairly easily this year but have struggled in the past at D2. In the SFL they would be a middle of the road Div 2 team.

Sorry for hijacking the original thread.....carry on!

Played against him in juniors for many years when he was at Mordi-Braeside..........didn't know what happened to him as haven't heard much talk about him. He dominating?

 

[pdog pizza's]

Rochford very good player but probably not a superstar. Would be a 50-70 goal forwad in the SFL div 1. Had a year at Mornington after Sandy Dragons but struggled a bit in that comp but has had a few good seasons at Parkdale since moving back there. Did his ankle this year which hindered his season.