Footy Classified

[nut]

Talked about Tanking...... Whilst talking about West Coast and Melbourne Basically said they should rest players and Tank for the Rest of the season so they can secure top picks..... and that there is NO reason for them to win...

Make no mistake we missed a HUGE opportunity on the weekend. This will be the last time I ever mention Tanking and our club again, but I want to make it clear that never again will we have the opportunity that could have been presented to us if we lost the rest of the season.


We would have secured Pick 1 and 2... 18 and pick 1 PSD in the LAST DRAFT to be unaffected by the new Clubs.

The affect that new clubs will be diabolical to clubs trying to re-build in the next 2-10 years. The Three players that we could have secured in the top 20 of this years draft would along with Lids, Foley, Tambling, Thurs, Cotchin...etc Lead us through this turbulent time.

Mark my words there will be atleast 1 less Victorian team going into the furture once these clubs are established. The success that Brisbane enjoyed once merging with Fitzroy will once again see the AFL trying to Merge teams.
Clubs that struggle through this period WILL be under HUGE pressure to relocate and merge and I would be surprised if they offer huge deals to attract 2 Clubs from Melbourne to Merge.

Are you confident that we will be-able to survive in this period??? Have you the confidence in our club that they will be able to justify not relocating to the AFL when we are the poorest performed team in the last 30 odd years???

Dont get me wrong I am very confident that we have a great young list, but so will alot of other clubs.

I just think we may have missed an oppurtunity to strengthen our list alot more with some very good picks which would help to secure the club through this un-easy time...

For me a little more pain for a huge amount of Gain would have been on order. But thats the past now .....

 

[Infamy]

Geelong, West Coast, Sydney & Port Adelaide never bottomed out, they all rebuilt from around mid table with perhaps one bad year. Why don't we follow their lead rather than sides like StKilda, Hawthorn & Carlton who haven't won a thing?

 

[rota69]

Absolute rubbish!

We need to establish a winning culture, this is most important becuase when teams like Collingwood, Stkilda, Sydney and in a more minor way Brisbane and Adelaide start to lose alot of their older players this is our oppurtunity to get our current youg breed of players to help us be serious contenders in the next few years. The teams who are breeding young players as we speak will be the teams who will win grandfinals in the next few years when obtaining star young players will be scarce. Another year of losing will do the players no good and our already low moral will just get worst and we again will be stuck through another long turbulent run. With Carlton and Hawthorn we have the best youngsters in the afl and are looking good to be a very strong and succesful team and this wont happen without a winning culture and for the players to wear their heart on their sleaves.

 

[nut]

Absolute rubbish!

We need to establish a winning culture, this is most important becuase when teams like Collingwood, Stkilda, Sydney and in a more minor way Brisbane and Adelaide start to lose alot of their older players this is our oppurtunity to get our current youg breed of players to help us be serious contenders in the next few years. The teams who are breeding young players as we speak will be the teams who will win grandfinals in the next few years when obtaining star young players will be scarce. Another year of losing will do the players no good and our already low moral will just get worst and we again will be stuck through another long turbulent run. With Carlton and Hawthorn we have the best youngsters in the afl and are looking good to be a very strong and succesful team and this wont happen without a winning culture and for the players to wear their heart on their sleaves.

Winning Culture????? 2005 the HAwks 2005 2006 2007 the Blues???? they seem to be unaffected by this loosing culture or the lack of a winning culture this year.

Just being picky but you mentioned the sides that haven't bottomed out,

Collingwood, Stkilda, Sydney and in a more minor way Brisbane and Adelaide

(I would assume that these have a " winning culture" because they haven't bottomed out), being the side that are going to fall down the ladder but the sides that have been bottoming out like our selves, Carlton and the Hawks ae going to rise above them???? I'm confused.... how does the winning culture work exactly?

 

[nut]

Geelong, West Coast, Sydney & Port Adelaide never bottomed out, they all rebuilt from around mid table with perhaps one bad year. Why don't we follow their lead rather than sides like StKilda, Hawthorn & Carlton who haven't won a thing?

West Coast Bottomed out and got JUDD... which in turn got them 3 top 20 picks.. and they are bottoming out again.

West Coast is a VERY smart club and have seen the benefit of this last unaffected Draft. They will be a POWER house as early as next year because they WILL tank this year and pick up 2 picks in the first round, whilst still putting games in the young players.

KERR wanted to play on the weekend but the club stpped him??? isn't that trying to bottom out?

 

[sante]

What a shit thread. You've clearly jumped on the 'negative' bandwagon.

 

[itsintheblood]

dont think i could have handled another 10 losses in a row. It would have murdered our teams confidence and morale, smashed our membership and attendances, dismissed the coach and probably the board, and also convinced little kids not to follow richmond. Not worth an extra pick I guess even though I've been keen for us to bottom right out this year.

 

[rota69]

Winning Culture????? 2005 the HAwks 2005 2006 2007 the Blues???? they seem to be unaffected by this loosing culture or the lack of a winning culture this year.

Just being picky but you mentioned the sides that haven't bottomed out, (I would assume that these have a " winning culture" because they haven't bottomed out), being the side that are going to fall down the ladder but the sides that have been bottoming out like our selves, Carlton and the Hawks ae going to rise above them???? I'm confused.... how does the winning culture work exactly?

1. Teams just cant bottom out and win the premiership the next year, i.e Hawthorn made bottom 4 in 2004, won more games in 2005 then followed that in 2006, then made the finals in 07 and are looking like very strong premiership contenders this year.

2. Sorry i should have made myself more clear, i wasn't talking about Collingwood,Stkilda and Sydney etc to do with a winning culture it was saying those teams would struggle in the next few years becuase of thier lack of premium youngsters.

 

[nut]

What a shit thread. You've clearly jumped on the 'negative' bandwagon.

I'm very much on the positive side of poster when it comes to the direction the club has taken with our list Management... but that doesn't mean I don't want the club to BENEFIT from the rules that are in place... just like Carlton, Hawthorn, the Saints, Collingwood (2005), WEST COAST 2001 ... and us have in the past. Remember if we had of beaten the Saints last season we would have lost Cotchin.

Ok loosing 10 games in a row is a bit extreme I honestly believe we missed the surest and best chance of securing a premiership team by winning on the weekend.

I do feel dirty posting these threads... but come draft day when we have finished ninth again and have pick 9th pick instead of pick 1 and 2 I will be very jealous and disappointed.... especially when those picks were ours for the picking.

 

[nut]

dont think i could have handled another 10 losses in a row. It would have murdered our teams confidence and morale, smashed our membership and attendances, dismissed the coach and probably the board, and also convinced little kids not to follow richmond. Not worth an extra pick I guess even though I've been keen for us to bottom right out this year.

Yes.... great post.

But what will really pee me off in the second half of the season and it has already started on footy classified tonight, is the media getting behind the teams that are on the bottom and justifying why they shouldn't win.
Tanking has become more and more part of the game... and it's now looked as good good list management and clubs being smart. Carlton is enjoying record Membership on the back of the darkest period in it's history. WHY because of the future that the picks that they have got is going to give them.

Not only is this the last year to tank before the new clubs, but I can see it being the last year that a system that is in place like this one, that encourages teams to loose being around. The AFL knows that it is unhealthy for the competition and will change it once the new clubs are set up.

any how...... I will standby my opinion that we should have really looked at the bottoming out this year, but I will always respect other opinions that winning is more important for our development .... the fact is that in our case maybe loosing was.... for just for 1 more year.

 

[nut]

1. Teams just cant bottom out and win the premiership the next year, i.e Hawthorn made bottom 4 in 2004, won more games in 2005 then followed that in 2006, then made the finals in 07 and are looking like very strong premiership contenders this year.

2. Sorry i should have made myself more clear, i wasn't talking about Collingwood,Stkilda and Sydney etc to do with a winning culture it was saying those teams would struggle in the next few years becuase of thier lack of premium youngsters.

How do you get premium youngsters??? and a lot of them???

Hawthorn finished 15th in 2004 and tanked big time in 2005 finishing 14th and getting another PP.

 

[kainokaino]

I am so pissed off by all this tanking talk ...

Okay so we get a couple of good young players (no guarantees on that)

We win the wooden spoon again
we lose members
we lose sponsors
we lose moneys
players lose confidence (expecially our young players)
young guns start thinking about leaving the club

and one thing that would be the worse then all them would be what it would be doing to RICHO, this man bleeds yellow and black he deserves so much more then what he has got to show for hes career so far, and for us to tank the rest of the year would break the big fellas heart ...

____ TANKING ... WERE NOT A WEAK CLUB LIKE CARLTON AND WE HAVE SHOWED THAT THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR.

 

[nut]

I am so pissed off by all this tanking talk ...

Okay so we get a couple of good young players (no guarantees on that)

We win the wooden spoon again
we lose members
we lose sponsors
we lose moneys
players lose confidence (expecially our young players)
young guns start thinking about leaving the club

and one thing that would be the worse then all them would be what it would be doing to RICHO, this man bleeds yellow and black he deserves so much more then what he has got to show for hes career so far, and for us to tank the rest of the year would break the big fellas heart ...

F*** TANKING ... WERE NOT A WEAK CLUB LIKE CARLTON AND WE HAVE SHOWED THAT THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR.

All good points, but we did finish below Carlton last year..

 

[oxx]

What a shit thread. You've clearly jumped on the 'negative' bandwagon.

and you remain on the "unchanged" bandwagon

 

[kainokaino]

I am happy carlton tanked though ...

Cotchin >> Kruezer

 

[Robert Walls]

On the Couch, Shits on Footy Classified

 

[Mr T]

there should be a system brought in were the teem that finishes 9th will get the pick 1 so that it will still encourage winning, losing will meen u miss out the finals just. It will also rotate the clubs that make the 8 because with the pick a club had one year they could make the 8 the year later and could slowly move up to be a power house.

NO TANKING. PROBLEM SOLVED

 

[CQTiger]

I thought if Melbourne won on Sunday we were burning punt road to the ground. You cant deliberately start losing at this stage of the season as previous posts have said there are sponsors and memberships to consider oh and one more thing ...pride. I think we have had our share of draft picks it is time to use them.

 

[Mr T]

I thought if Melbourne won on Sunday we were burning punt road to the ground. You cant deliberately start losing at this stage of the season as previous posts have said there are sponsors and memberships to consider oh and one more thing ...pride. I think we have had our share of draft picks it is time to use them.

Exactly right mate, this club really need to start kicking some but and have some huge wins and show we are not messing around any more!

 

[CoggaRules]

Geelong, West Coast, Sydney & Port Adelaide never bottomed out, they all rebuilt from around mid table with perhaps one bad year. Why don't we follow their lead rather than sides like StKilda, Hawthorn & Carlton who haven't won a thing?

yeah but they didnt ____ up like we did when we hung around mid table....time will tell...but like nut suggests...the golden opportunity to secure the future of this club has been missed. Once again the opportunity presented itself and once again the tigers fluffed it. Now all we can do is hope...which is about what we have been doing for the last 25 years...hoping.
You dudes dont really understand what 5 years of the dud, following the years under the other duds did to this club do you? Not only were we picking up mediocre to dud draft picks, we picked up dud recycled players as well...this has set the club back 20 years....i.e. not any different to carlton's penalty with the draft....they were gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn for all money and now they have murphy, gibbs & Kruezer with a Judd to steer them, and 4 year later they are flying....we are doing what? yep...hoping.

 

[tugga]

I have been thinking about this over the past few days.
There has to come a time where the current group of young players who will be in their prime 23-27 age group in a few years, need to stand up and say 'Enough' and do something about this themselves.
I'm not against tanking to secure the club's future. But we will not get a PP this year. That is fact.
So we move on. And the current group of kids like Deledio, Foley, Cotchin etc need to stand up and start doing something about this predicament themselves.
So in other words, while I am not against tanking, the simple fact is we have missed that opportunity so therefore we have no choice but to go forward from here.
Sometimes you need to say 'Enough' and move forward with what you've got, not go backwards with what you want in the hope of then moving forwards.
a winless 2nd half of this season, in my opinion, would have started to affect the unaffacted. In other words, the kids who have come into the club unaffacted by our shyteness, would have all of a sudden found themselves well and truly embroiled in our loser's mentality.
So...we push forward. We don't let Deledio and Foley and Cotchin (the basis of what will be a very good midfield) fall into the trap of playing and going about their business as losers like many have before them. Send them the message that the shit stops now. We win as many games as we can from here on in. The kids feel good about themselves, about their futures as AFL senior footballers and they start to go about creating their own culture and their own dynasty at this club.

 

[CoggaRules]

I have been thinking about this over the past few days.
There has to come a time where the current group of young players who will be in their prime 23-27 age group in a few years, need to stand up and say 'Enough' and do something about this themselves.
I'm not against tanking to secure the club's future. But we will not get a PP this year. That is fact.
So we move on. And the current group of kids like Deledio, Foley, Cotchin etc need to stand up and start doing something about this predicament themselves.
So in other words, while I am not against tanking, the simple fact is we have missed that opportunity so therefore we have no choice but to go forward from here.
Sometimes you need to say 'Enough' and move forward with what you've got, not go backwards with what you want in the hope of then moving forwards.
a winless 2nd half of this season, in my opinion, would have started to affect the unaffacted. In other words, the kids who have come into the club unaffacted by our shyteness, would have all of a sudden found themselves well and truly embroiled in our loser's mentality.
So...we push forward. We don't let Deledio and Foley and Cotchin (the basis of what will be a very good midfield) fall into the trap of playing and going about their business as losers like many have before them. Send them the message that the shit stops now. We win as many games as we can from here on in. The kids feel good about themselves, about their futures as AFL senior footballers and they start to go about creating their own culture and their own dynasty at this club.

yeah copy that dude....but in the end...and if anyone suggests otherwise they are pure BS artists....we are going to hope and pray that we have in our midst KPPs that light it up. Because if we havent, then we will be in what position? yep...we will have to offload talent to get them, or to get a high draft pick. We havent got the depth to do that, the brainst trust in my opinion have completely stuffed it up. IT was there for the taking, 2 young KPPs of immense talent...how could you possibly say nup, we are ok, when you look at a Kruezer and you then look at a patto? as for the unaffected, beg to differ. The precocious youngsters nowadays know why the team is shit...and they definetely know that it isnt because of them. Better hope they dont pull the pin on us dude....then we are hot favs to become the West Sydney Tigers...

 

[tugga]

yeah copy that dude....but in the end...and if anyone suggests otherwise they are pure BS artists....we are going to hope and pray that we have in our midst KPPs that light it up. Because if we havent, then we will be in what position? yep...we will have to offload talent to get them, or to get a high draft pick. We havent got the depth to do that, the brainst trust in my opinion have completely stuffed it up. IT was there for the taking, 2 young KPPs of immense talent...how could you possibly say nup, we are ok, when you look at a Kruezer and you then look at a patto? as for the unaffected, beg to differ. The precocious youngsters nowadays know why the team is shit...and they definetely know that it isnt because of them. Better hope they dont pull the pin on us dude....then we are hot favs to become the West Sydney Tigers...

Yes I realise that. We badly need a ruckman and a CHF.
But it's done and dusted now. We won't be getting a PP this year. No point hoping for something you can't have.
We'll still have a top 10 pick (most likely 6 or 7) and another pick in the low 20s. We will just have to get by with what we've got. The biggest litmus test for our club comes in November this year when we use those two picks.
And Cogga, how early is too early to start tanking? It's only halfway through the year. We still play melbourne again, we play West Coast, we play Essendon again. Pretty hard to lose 15 in a row when other teams around you are trying to do the same thing.

 

[nut]

...then we are hot favs to become the West Sydney Tigers...

and thats what I'm worried about

 

[CoggaRules]

Yes I realise that. We badly need a ruckman and a CHF.
But it's done and dusted now. We won't be getting a PP this year. No point hoping for something you can't have.
We'll still have a top 10 pick (most likely 6 or 7) and another pick in the low 20s. We will just have to get by with what we've got. The biggest litmus test for our club comes in November this year when we use those two picks.
And Cogga, how early is too early to start tanking? It's only halfway through the year. We still play melbourne again, we play West Coast, we play Essendon again. Pretty hard to lose 15 in a row when other teams around you are trying to do the same thing.

dude, all they had to do was throw caution to the wind and give the youngsters their head. What concerns me is that they opted for the tried, trying and failed formula that has now got us in nowhere land.
I for one would not have batted an eyelid had they gone hell for leather and blooded youngster after youngster at the expense of our senior group. No one would have bagged us for blooding youngsters. If they produced the goods, so be it, if they didnt, so be it. But in the end we would have either known that we were on the cusp, or we would have had the picks...either way we were in front. They wasted 3 games to find out what blind freddy has known for the last 5 years FFS.
Who knows, this Rance kid might be one out of the box and they know it...but until we know it, then wee can only be sceptical.