GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[WesternSydneyHawk]

I've mentioned this before, but there should absolutely be an AFL presence at Accor over Easter.

Would there be anything stopping GWS hosting a home game at the Showgrounds on the first day of the Easter Show?

Make it a special attraction. Anyone at the show that day gets in for free.

GWS members already get a free Easter Show ticket.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Would there be anything stopping GWS hosting a home game at the Showgrounds on the first day of the Easter Show?

Make it a special attraction. Anyone at the show that day gets in for free.

GWS members already get a free Easter Show ticket.

Only downside I see is I think Souths v Canterbury already own Good Friday.

How long would it take to convert the stadium? Easter Monday might be a good option to give them time to convert it.

 

[Teen Wolf]

No, don't accept that. Plenty of space for the Giants to play in Sydney that weekend.

That's exactly like saying there are enough Friday slots for each club to get at least 3 per year.

So why do some get 7 while others only get 1? Maybe the AFL fixture more frequently favours the big clubs, regardless of whether you accept it.

 

[Bjo187]

...Sydney play Collingwood on Friday night at the SCG during the NRL's Magic Round.

The AFL anticipated that. So no, it's not a matter of the AFL being unaware of the other codes. They simply took the opportunity to prioritise bigger clubs, which is how the league usually operates.

Is 1 game in Sydney on a Friday night something that out of the norm? Could be any other weekend of the year basically.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Is 1 game in Sydney on a Friday night something that out of the norm? Could be any other weekend of the year basically.

Contrary to your claim, the AFL did in fact identify the weekend that NSW would be NRL-free. They chose to exploit it by having the biggest Sydney club host the biggest Australian club in the biggest timeslot.

GWS would've wanted to play at home that weekend too, but the reality is small clubs only get a tiny fraction of what they want when it comes to the fixture.

They've been given Opening Round plus 2 Friday night games in the first 7 weeks of the season, which means they are getting looked after better than most small clubs.

 

[Bjo187]

Contrary to your claim, the AFL did in fact identify the weekend that NSW would be NRL-free. They chose to exploit it by having the biggest Sydney club host the biggest Australian club in the biggest timeslot.

GWS would've wanted to play at home that weekend too, but the reality is small clubs only get a tiny fraction of what they want when it comes to the fixture.

I think if they did identify it as a week to exploit the rare free air, the Giants would have also been playing in Sydney though. A missed opportunity. One thing I will say the AFL have nailed most of the Thursday and Friday night games in the fixture this year, much better than last year. It's fortunate because the byes throughout the first 5 rounds are a real issue for creating momentum.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Lions hosting the GF rematch on the Thursday night as well.

Either the AFL deliberately scheduled these high profile matchups to soak up some attention in the northern states during the week of NRL Magic Round, or they got extremely lucky.

 

[whatwhatsaywhat]

gerard healy tees off: https://pca.st/episode/980f485e-eff2-4de8-83ae-bc9e4b3f6d4a

at 14 clubs, where there's 22,000 eligible kids, there's 97 registered players for the under 13 competition

that's...appalling

unsurprisingly, the afl are talking up about how there's 27% growth; that's because last year there was only 78 registered players

 

[Cmarsh]

gerard healy tees off: https://pca.st/episode/980f485e-eff2-4de8-83ae-bc9e4b3f6d4a

at 14 clubs, where there's 22,000 eligible kids, there's 97 registered players for the under 13 competition

that's...appalling

unsurprisingly, the afl are talking up about how there's 27% growth; that's because last year there was only 78 registered players

Pretty par for the coarse for Healy to go and cherry pick stats for the sake of him firing ammunition to be critical of the Western Sydney venture. He's been doing this kind of thing for a while.

While the number looks bad, and it's certainly not great, it's an age where kids not used to the game get discouraged pretty easily. Unlike in the rugby codes, every player is required to kick. Not from a tee or off a few steps without hitting a target or a vague area of field to force opposition backwards at the end of a tackle set or to just put up a bomb, but flat out running and kicking with accuracy to a target. It's easy to pack it in.

But to the numbers that Gerard has -
If you took 14 random clubs from any of the Southern footy states, how many u13 male players would there be?

Maybe a few hundred?

 

[Cmarsh]

The other thing I would say is that it's quite disingenuous for him to talk about the millions spent in Westen Sydney, and not qualify this to say the bulk of this goes to run the GWS club. Every AFL club takes millions of dollars a year to operate. But he would know this.

He also takes a lazy pot shot saying players play in front of "an empty stadium", when quite clearly our crowds have grown from when first started.

 

[Cmarsh]

Another thing -

Although Auskick is a mass participation entry point and not a predictor of elite talent, Gerard is again disingenuous in saying Auskick numbers are"playschool numbers". They don't mean nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if about 3 quaters of current AFL listed players participated in Auskick at some point.

 

[Bjo187]

Another thing -

Although Auskick is a mass participation entry point and not a predictor of elite talent, Gerard is again disingenuous in saying Auskick numbers are"playschool numbers". They don't mean nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if about 3 quaters of current AFL listed players participated in Auskick at some point.

Don't kids in Sydney now play superkick? Instead of club footy, I think that's up to the age of 13 or so anyway. I may be wrong.

 

[Cmarsh]

Don't kids in Sydney now play superkick? Instead of club footy, I think that's up to the age of 13 or so anyway. I may be wrong.

Auskick 4yo to 7yo. Superkick 7yo to 12yo.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Last year there were 57 teams across 8 divisions (5 boys, 3 girls) in the U13 AFL Sydney comp. 10 of them west of Olympic Park.

Meanwhile there were 13 smaller teams across 2 divisions in the U13 NRL Vic Metro comp.

So in the part of Sydney where Aussie rules is least popular, u13 club participation is about the same as what rugby league gets in the entirety of Melbourne + Geelong. This despite the Storm being around 15 years longer than the Giants.

 

[PP34]

97 registered: The damning truth behind the AFL's western Sydney failure

The joke's on us all who have been fed the expansion fable.

www.sen.com.au

Nobody goes to their games. They don’t produce kids from an academy. Kids aren’t playing footy in Western Sydney.

When is the AFL going to admit GWS as a football club is a complete and utter failure and should be moved or removed from the AFL altogether?

The whole thing was typical AFL arrogance from day one.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Forewarning. You're about to have a Swans poster not too happy about this article.

 

[Colonial]

1 problem at the Giants.

The untouchable Mr Matthews 15 year free reign.

Club should be called Western Sydney and be based fulltime, not Canberra.

He loves his aussie sports marketing rubbish of calling clubs "The" that way you are for everyone.

Plenty of people in Western Sydney to support a club. But if they arent fulltime and the boss is embarrassed to call them Western Sydney why should they jump on board. Have a few mates who stuck with their original team because they said the old "If the Giants arent all in on Western Sydney why should we?"

I am concerned the club will be moved fulltime to Canberra, I will still follow. But it wasn't because a club wouldn't work in WS or that we don't want a club. We never had one.

 

[Giant YoYo]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/afl-boss-andrew-dillon-on-major-league-baseball-inspiration-and-hunt-for-more-eyeballs-on-the-game/news-story/a1f2057cad569fb37108118a4637432f

On last year:

"that saw Western Sydney participation grow by 12 per cent to nearly 12,000 registered participants last season"

This will take some time to transfer to club registrations now that the post covid malaise has seemingly been shaken.

The NRL has planted a flag in Las Vegas. The AFL wants a big one in western Sydney

In contrast to Peter V’landys’ outspoken jibes at the rival code, CEO Andrew Dillon is quietly confident the AFL’s long-term investment in Western Sydney is beginning to pay off.

www.smh.com.au

"With 78,000 participants across NSW and the ACT last year – up 10 per cent year-on-year"

Pretty low base all around that could do with some bigger figures.

 

[Kram]

It's like when Krusty opened the burger joint on the unmanned oil rig?

 

[sherb]

They were given an enormous area to call their own, Greater Western Sydney. It was marketed as a GWS team to the good people of Western Sydney. I have one of the early brochures, circa 2010 I'm guessing, it was all GWS, GWS, GWS. Featured a picture of the Blacktown facility.

By the time they were up and running, they were playing several games a year in Canberra. Around a year or so later, they were sponsoring Manly in the local Sydney AFL competition, the most hated team in the west. (And with good reason might I add). I tried to post here how ridiculous that was but got howled down by sensitive GWS posters. I can tell you for a fact that the Manly players hated it too, just quietly...............

They walked away from Blacktown as a training base to a venue barely in the GWS area. They play all their Sydney AFLW games at Henson Park, which is inner west, not GWS. They don't hold functions in the GWS area, to the best of my knowledge they are all in the CBD.

The point is, after being gifted this area, instead of going at it 110% they've been half-arsed about it, sending terrible signals to the market they were supposed to be representing. If people aren't interested in reciprocating their support, you can hardly blame them.

I bought a foundation Giants membership with pride and joy, it's something I only maintain these days as a sign of support for the game overall here in Sydney. Otherwise I'm not interested.

As for local footy, I can only speak for here in the outer west. Now I don't pretend to be that knowledgeable about the ins and outs of local juniors but the fall off has been drastic. St Clair has folded, the once thriving Emu Plains/Glenmore Park is a shell of its former self, many teams out here are now joint venture, particularly in the older age groups.

A local association had been formed in 2000, and was growing nicely, featuring Emu Plains/GP, St Clair, Penrith, Blue Mountains, Hawkesbury and possibly one other. I don't know if it even exists any more - if it does, it is only at the very young age groups.

I know from a senior club point of view here in Penrith, we were very successful in the period 2010-2020, almost totally off the back of local juniors. The flow of juniors has now all but stopped, and we haven't been able to field an Under 19's side since 2019.

Now, I'm not blaming this on GWS, but their semi-interest in the west hasn't helped. Ultimately, if the game is going to thrive at a junior level out here to be fair, it's up to the AFL. Where I am critical of GWS however is when they post absolute rubbish like this on their Facebook page (from March last year), which is patently untrue when it comes to the junior (and senior) game out here. Ignorant idiots.

 

[Gavin Excell]

They were given an enormous area to call their own, Greater Western Sydney. It was marketed as a GWS team to the good people of Western Sydney. I have one of the early brochures, circa 2010 I'm guessing, it was all GWS, GWS, GWS. Featured a picture of the Blacktown facility.

By the time they were up and running, they were playing several games a year in Canberra. Around a year or so later, they were sponsoring Manly in the local Sydney AFL competition, the most hated team in the west. (And with good reason might I add). I tried to post here how ridiculous that was but got howled down by sensitive GWS posters. I can tell you for a fact that the Manly players hated it too, just quietly...............

They walked away from Blacktown as a training base to a venue barely in the GWS area. They play all their Sydney AFLW games at Henson Park, which is inner west, not GWS. They don't hold functions in the GWS area, to the best of my knowledge they are all in the CBD.

The point is, after being gifted this area, instead of going at it 110% they've been half-arsed about it, sending terrible signals to the market they were supposed to be representing. If people aren't interested in reciprocating their support, you can hardly blame them.

I bought a foundation Giants membership with pride and joy, it's something I only maintain these days as a sign of support for the game overall here in Sydney. Otherwise I'm not interested.

As for local footy, I can only speak for here in the outer west. Now I don't pretend to be that knowledgeable about the ins and outs of local juniors but the fall off has been drastic. St Clair has folded, the once thriving Emu Plains/Glenmore Park is a shell of its former self, many teams out here are now joint venture, particularly in the older age groups.

A local association had been formed in 2000, and was growing nicely, featuring Emu Plains/GP, St Clair, Penrith, Blue Mountains, Hawkesbury and possibly one other. I don't know if it even exists any more - if it does, it is only at the very young age groups.

I know from a senior club point of view here in Penrith, we were very successful in the period 2010-2020, almost totally off the back of local juniors. The flow of juniors has now all but stopped, and we haven't been able to field an Under 19's side since 2019.

Now, I'm not blaming this on GWS, but their semi-interest in the west hasn't helped. Ultimately, if the game is going to thrive at a junior level out here to be fair, it's up to the AFL. Where I am critical of GWS however is when they post absolute rubbish like this on their Facebook page (from March last year), which is patently untrue when it comes to the junior (and senior) game out here. Ignorant idiots.

Im not really across Sydney demographics but is there a touch of snobbishness/cultural cringe from administrators and players about the area?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Gerard Healy is a disaster. Didn't spend two seconds verifying any participation numbers from a reliable source, and it's clear he isn't even sure what the figure of 97 relates to.

 

[Colonial]

They were given an enormous area to call their own, Greater Western Sydney. It was marketed as a GWS team to the good people of Western Sydney. I have one of the early brochures, circa 2010 I'm guessing, it was all GWS, GWS, GWS. Featured a picture of the Blacktown facility.

By the time they were up and running, they were playing several games a year in Canberra. Around a year or so later, they were sponsoring Manly in the local Sydney AFL competition, the most hated team in the west. (And with good reason might I add). I tried to post here how ridiculous that was but got howled down by sensitive GWS posters. I can tell you for a fact that the Manly players hated it too, just quietly...............

They walked away from Blacktown as a training base to a venue barely in the GWS area. They play all their Sydney AFLW games at Henson Park, which is inner west, not GWS. They don't hold functions in the GWS area, to the best of my knowledge they are all in the CBD.

The point is, after being gifted this area, instead of going at it 110% they've been half-arsed about it, sending terrible signals to the market they were supposed to be representing. If people aren't interested in reciprocating their support, you can hardly blame them.

I bought a foundation Giants membership with pride and joy, it's something I only maintain these days as a sign of support for the game overall here in Sydney. Otherwise I'm not interested.

As for local footy, I can only speak for here in the outer west. Now I don't pretend to be that knowledgeable about the ins and outs of local juniors but the fall off has been drastic. St Clair has folded, the once thriving Emu Plains/Glenmore Park is a shell of its former self, many teams out here are now joint venture, particularly in the older age groups.

A local association had been formed in 2000, and was growing nicely, featuring Emu Plains/GP, St Clair, Penrith, Blue Mountains, Hawkesbury and possibly one other. I don't know if it even exists any more - if it does, it is only at the very young age groups.

I know from a senior club point of view here in Penrith, we were very successful in the period 2010-2020, almost totally off the back of local juniors. The flow of juniors has now all but stopped, and we haven't been able to field an Under 19's side since 2019.

Now, I'm not blaming this on GWS, but their semi-interest in the west hasn't helped. Ultimately, if the game is going to thrive at a junior level out here to be fair, it's up to the AFL. Where I am critical of GWS however is when they post absolute rubbish like this on their Facebook page (from March last year), which is patently untrue when it comes to the junior (and senior) game out here. Ignorant idiots.

We used to be at war in the beginning if I remember, I was willing to give them a chance you could see how bad the leadership was. How foolish I was.

The players coaches, staff, community, groups etc are all amazing hardworking people. This is wholly on Matthews and the AFL for giving him the free reign.

Imagine all the coin the club puts in through different strategies and ways went to WS grassroots instead of the South East and Canberra.
Hope the 2 mil a year and Matthews golden handshake was worth it.

Edit. sherb I think the only part we would still disagree with is Olympic park.
I think Olympic Park is a great Training base, mostly due to location, still is Western Sydney but easy access for the whole of Sydney. Lets face it young players like the beach and the city etc (and our Penrith Beach isn't umm great lol).

As for the actual stadium? Well Showgrounds has the best transport options of any stadium in Sydney, Its also the only one Oval wise in WS. Would I prefer a 35k facility in Parra or Blacktown or Liverpool or Penrith? Yeah. We going to get that anytime soon, even in the early days? No. Blacktown was going to be the spot. But there has been plenty of talk that the AFL was used to get the deal over the line for NSW Cricket and the cricket mad mayor at the time. Supposedly couldn't be there fulltime.
Either way there is no transport or facilities there for a fulltime professional club.

 

[Colonial]

Does anyone have an email for Sportsday or Gerard? Have an email. A bit too big for sms

 

[sherb]

Im not really across Sydney demographics but is there a touch of snobbishness/cultural cringe from administrators and players about the area?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there was.