Opinion Heretier Lumumba

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
jmac70 said:
Buddha v Jesus in a fight.

I’m backing Buddha.
Click to expand...

What if it’s held in the middle of a lake? I hear Jesus was a water-type (into wine-type).
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Finnishpie said:
So didn't it pretty much suggest that there was systemic racism at Collingwood and that Lumumba was a victim of it?
Click to expand...
You're talking about two different things. Timmy is talking about direct racism. The report found systemic racism in our responses to incidents involving racism - basically responses or practices that would make racism or its impact worse.

The report didn't state that HL was a victim, but it's pretty easy to see how some of the findings would relate to our responses to HL's claims of racism. They didn't investigate his initial claims of direct racism, as it wasn't part of the scope of the inquiry.
 
sr36 said:
You're talking about two different things. Timmy is talking about direct racism. The report found systemic racism in our responses to incidents involving racism - basically responses or practices that would make racism or its impact worse.

The report didn't state that HL was a victim, but it's pretty easy to see how some of the findings would relate to our responses to HL's claims of racism. They didn't investigate his initial claims of direct racism, as it wasn't part of the scope of the inquiry.
Click to expand...

He refused to participate because he didn’t actually have any claims to make of any substance.

The do better outcome was simply the introduction or strengthening of a dispute escalatiion mechanism. Basic governance. It should apply to all disgruntled employees to ensure their complaints are treated seriously end respectfully. It shouldn’t be restricted to complaints about racism, ( of which we have no evidence o& i5 occurring).
 
danielnajdek said:
Dangerous thinking mate. Do you believe all women?
Click to expand...
If I had to choose between believing all men or all women, I would choose women.

Much less likely to get me killed.
 
Go Pies!!!!! said:
the club has taken many great strides forward and we need to keep the positive direction going, no issue with H being there but let’s not make this about him. Winmar and Mcadam deserve better
Click to expand...
Um, it's about him because he made it about him, even more so by snubbing the club president. Yes it is a shame that he has diverted attention from the issue around which the event was focussed.
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
He refused to participate because he didn’t actually have any claims to make of any substance.

The do better outcome was simply the introduction or strengthening of a dispute escalatiion mechanism. Basic governance. It should apply to all disgruntled employees to ensure their complaints are treated seriously end respectfully. It shouldn’t be restricted to complaints about racism, ( of which we have no evidence o& i5 occurring).
Click to expand...
The Do Better report goes into more issues than simply dispute resolution.

Clubs have two responsibilities in terms of racism - education of employees and responding to incidents and allegations, which also relates to policy. They didn't review education - the player part of that is run by the AFL. They reviewed responses - and ours were lacking, which went well beyond just conflict resolution. But yes they would have been just as lacking for issues other than just racism.

Did HL refuse to participate in the review? I can't find anything on whether he did or didn't participate. Or whether he was even requested for interview. He refused to participate in the follow up processes from the club, but thats different. However, whether he had a case for his claims or not was irrelevant in terms of the review.
 
sr36 said:
The Do Better report goes into more issues than simply dispute resolution.

Clubs have two responsibilities in terms of racism - education of employees and responding to incidents and allegations, which also relates to policy. They didn't review education - the player part of that is run by the AFL. They reviewed responses - and ours were lacking, which went well beyond just conflict resolution. But yes they would have been just as lacking for issues other than just racism.

Did HL refuse to participate in the review? I can't find anything on whether he did or didn't participate. Or whether he was even requested for interview. He refused to participate in the follow up processes from the club, but thats different. However, whether he had a case for his claims or not was irrelevant in terms of the review.
Click to expand...
From Australian Men's Health article MAY 1, 2021:

'While Do Better was prompted in large part due to Lumumba’s allegations of racism, the 34-year-old chose not to participate in the report, stating he had no desire to work with “the same organisation who have worked to publicly discredit my truth so that they can decide on its value”.'
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Fat Jesus said:
You always have to be the best version of yourself whenever the opportunity arises.
H is from Brazil. Not an indigenous Australian. What was he doing there?
Just there because the colour of his skin?
I may as well have been there myself.
Go if you have been invited and respect everyone there.
Reconciliation Ceremony.
Not hard to understand
Click to expand...

Racism doesn’t just affect First Nations people. Reconciliation is bigger than a single individual. I’m pretty confident Nicky Winmar would be of the same view otherwise H wouldn’t have been there.
 
Fat Jesus said:
So have many immigrants that came to this land. Not just colour that experiences racism.
This was his chance to make things good between him and our club.
Click to expand...

So he has to? What if he’s not ready? Does he have to simply because you think he should?
 
The Royal Sampler said:
He’s welcome to do as he pleases. The fact that he is unprepared to even have a conversation with a man wanting to speak with him, in good faith, regarding a matter Lumumba would appear to be passionate about is disappointing, and frankly unbecoming.

Apologists can paint it as “not being ready to reconcile” but it was Jeff Browne wishing to have a conversation. Lumumba is grandstanding as though he’s the Dalai Lama this time around.
Click to expand...

He had a conversation. Just didn’t go as people seem to think it should.
 
noideaatall said:
Wonderful post. I cherish the day Collingwood supporters will see HL as a leading activist rather than a recalcitrant player. He deserves respect.
Click to expand...

I think he’s a man with issues, don’t give a rats if he’s a leading activist or not, but some of the posting here is completely over the top. I hope 1 day he can resolve his issues. He’ll be a happier man for it.
 
Finnishpie said:
So didn't it pretty much suggest that there was systemic racism at Collingwood and that Lumumba was a victim of it?

When people say they don't like him or they call him a nutter, I just assume they don't like black man calling people out for racism. It's actually a classic tactic of bullies in the workplace -- you blame the person being bullied for being "unstable" rather than look at the culture to which they are responding to. I've seen it a hundred times as someone who advocated for targets of bullying. Happy to share the information if you need it.

Let me be clear: I have no time for cancel culture, or crap like this. But I've met Lumumba, he seemed pretty nice. I find the urge to minimise him or dismiss him small minded and veering in dangerous directions.
Click to expand...
I wish I had a record of all the incoherent twitter mumblings he has made in the past 5 years so I could quote some to you but unfortunately I don’t. There was also the interview where he strongly implied that he’d been sexually assaulted as a child and it turned out to be his cousin or something but again I haven’t kept records to share with you.

Neither of those reasons have any relation to a black man (and I do find it ironically racist when people like you want to relate everything back to a person’s skin colour).

If you don’t think he’s somewhat unhinged then good for you but from what I’ve seen and read, I think he has actual mental issues. If he was in my workplace and worked for me, I would probably be trying my hardest to get him the help he needs, I wouldn’t be bullying him.
 
Tippy78 said:
I wish I had a record of all the incoherent twitter mumblings he has made in the past 5 years so I could quote some to you but unfortunately I don’t. There was also the interview where he strongly implied that he’d been sexually assaulted as a child and it turned out to be his cousin or something but again I haven’t kept records to share with you.

Neither of those reasons have any relation to a black man (and I do find it ironically racist when people like you want to relate everything back to a person’s skin colour).

If you don’t think he’s somewhat unhinged then good for you but from what I’ve seen and read, I think he has actual mental issues. If he was in my workplace and worked for me, I would probably be trying my hardest to get him the help he needs, I wouldn’t be bullying him.
Click to expand...

He might indeed have mental issues - 50% of the population do - but as in most workplace bullying cases, these only become and issue as a result of the bullying. Then, in 7/10 cases, the thing that stops the bullying is the target leaving the organization. He can both have mental health issues and still be a victim of bullying.
 
sr36 said:
You're talking about two different things. Timmy is talking about direct racism. The report found systemic racism in our responses to incidents involving racism - basically responses or practices that would make racism or its impact worse.

The report didn't state that HL was a victim, but it's pretty easy to see how some of the findings would relate to our responses to HL's claims of racism. They didn't investigate his initial claims of direct racism, as it wasn't part of the scope of the inquiry.
Click to expand...

Yeah fair enough, it’s been a while since I scanned the report. Thanks for clarification.
 
Finnishpie said:
He might indeed have mental issues - 50% of the population do - but as in most workplace bullying cases, these only become and issue as a result of the bullying. Then, in 7/10 cases, the thing that stops the bullying is the target leaving the organization. He can both have mental health issues and still be a victim of bullying.
Click to expand...
Your stats seem very loose but I’ve lost interest in delving any further if that’s ok. Clearly people with mental health issues can still be victims of bullying
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top