Let's get serious

[The Great Gabsby]

Our ruck stocks may not have depth but I believe there is some quality there.

Jamar showed last year that he is ready to take the next step, and compared with what he had been serving up in years previous, it was an immense improvement. If he can consistently play at the level for the whole year I think he could realistically be in the top 10 ruckman in the league by year's end.

I have high hopes for Gawn also. He is one of the most coordinated big men I've seen in a while. Dean Cox-esque. Just have to hope he comes on as he should.

Realistically, you don't need a super dominant ruckman to win premierships. Whilst it would be nice to have Dean Cox running around, I think the Cats and Hawks showed that having ruckmen who are competitive enough to nullify the opposition ruckmen is all thats required.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

Ok so injuries are going to hinder our year and our expectations for 2010.

At the risk of taking the 'same old cop out line' perhaps our expectations are too bold for our list. Is a 19 years old much better than an 18 year old? A 20 year old much better than an 18yr old? Bar the exeptions to the rule (ready made body-types) you'd have to say only marginally at best. Footballers take big strides through their mid 20's. We have seen this in Sylvia and Davey.

We have bottomed out probably more severely than anyone before, so maybe we have to be patient for longer than anyone before? Injuries have obviously compounded this...

I don't mean to accept mediocrity, but I wonder if our expectations (and certainly the general publics) of the list are inflated due to the number of high picks. Particularly when we have picked very few players (rightly or wrongly) set for immediate impact. Are we ahead of ourselves with what we want to see?

(That's my ramble)

 

[davey_magik]

Apart from the fact that we are 152 years old and still have no main training venue & home base worries the **** out of me.

???

Casey is our home base in the summer, and I believe we will be using the Bubble dome facilities for training. We've also revived our link with the MCC which is a huge boost. Don't have a home base in the winter, but that is only a few years away at most.

My main concerns are that the players who have been on our list 4+ years have not improved at all, players like Jones, Jamar, Bell, bartram, Dunn, PJ, Miller, and to a certain extent Meesen & Newton, THEY HAVE NOT IMPROVED! Are we the only club going around that cannot get the best out of players?

Jamar hasn't improved? Are you joking? He isn't a world beater but he's now definitely good enough to be our first ruck. We look a lot better when he plays, compared to the unco 2nd ruck he was under ND.

Jones hasn't really improved, but I think he'll look better as the team improves. Dunn is treated like shit at selection and is never allowed to settle in a position. Miller has been kept out of necessity (Along with PJ) as we lack players in his position. Meesen and Newton are now on the rookie list and will most likely be gone at the end of the year. Bartram and Bell are average AFL players.

Best out of players? The following players you have listed would never be premiership players at ANY club: PJ, Miller (Harsh I know but he is a pea heart in front of goal), Newton, Bartram and Bell.

Let's not forget Bailey only recruited Meesen out of that lot, and I still think he has something to offer. The rest have been kept out of necessity as we can't expect JW to hold down CHF at 19 years of age in the worst team in the league.

Did we make a mistake appointing Bailey? Do our assistant coaches have enough knowledge and experience to take this list further and get the best out of players? Why we havent been able to lure a 'big fish' to our club since Peter Moore?

Did we make a mistake appointing Bailey? Jury is out. I think we'll have an answer for you at the end of next year since his contract has been extended.

In regards to 'luring a big fish'. Sure, it would be great to have gotten Brown, Fev or Judd, but in reality we weren't able to. Why? When Judd came our facilities 'weren't up to scratch' (I think Judd only went to Carlton for brown paper bags but our facilities were poor at the time). We were also a club in the bottom 4 and in reality players don't want to play at a shit club. Salary wasn't a problem for us (Though with all these 3rd party deals maybe we were outpriced?) but it is simply because we are not a very good football team. I don't know if you expect to lure big names when we are shit because that would just be idiotic.

Then there is the Jack Watts/Natinui issue, if you guy's are telling me that you haven't once thought that we made a blunder with Watt's your only kidding yourselves, This kid(natinui) is a superstar, and we arn't exactly overflowing with quality ruckman are we? And then CC comes out and says that Watts is basically in cotton wool for 4 years!! HOW EMBARASSING!! No wonder why other supporters are laughing at us!! Maybe this kid is just not up to it at all. (i pray that i'm wrong).

Seriously, this is why everyone ignores your opinion. To actually say we've made the wrong decision ONE FULL SEASON INTO THEIR CAREERS is incredibly stupid. JW was drafted as a long term elite KPF. Naita was ALWAYS going to have more impact early on with his work rate, increased size and the fact he plays in a better team than Watts.

CC saying Watts won't be ready for 4 years? Do you understand how key position players take time to be ready for AFL football? Look at Hawkins and Gumbleton. I rate both highly but they are coming into their 3rd and 4th seasons respectively and still haven't set the world on fire, and they've played in far better teams than Watts. Josh Kennedy is another example. CC was right saying Watts won't be near his best for 4 years, do you understand now?

What i'm saying is to honest and upfront with yourselves, it's all good to live in hope, but i've been there before and i tell you what people, untill we get a state of the art training venue, untill we get decent coache's untill we get 40,000+ members and untill we get decent footballers down at that club, we will never be any good, simple as that. Prepare for another bottom 2 finish in 2010.

Geelong didn't have 40,000 members. Bar Ottens Geelong didn't swoop on gun players from other clubs (And Ottens was considered a failed trade for the first two seasons).

We've got enough young talent at the club now that it is almost impossible we won't turn out to be a very good football team. That may sound ridiculous but think about it:
- Jurrah
- Grimes
- Morton
- Scully
- Trengove
- Frawley
- Watts

Then you've got senior players in Green, Bruce, Davey, Sylvia, Rivers and Beamer who all do a good job each week (Davey and Sylvia with potential to be elite players).

Not to mention Blease, Maric, Jones etc.

Future is bright .

 

[picks1and2]

Is your name Chris and do you live in Camberwell ?

think chris has now moved from the last time i heard him

 

[LITTLE STINGA]

Stinga,
I strongly believe that you win premierships out of the middle, as geelong have proven, and IMO Niknat was the pivitol ingredient. It's quite obvious that we also need a power forward, but lets be honest, from what ive seen Natinui could rest at FF and be just as dangerous and effective in 5 years as Watts!!
Mate, footballers in Natinui's mould don't come around very often, he is a freak of nature and i've never seen a footballer with his height, leap and speed for a long, long time. Im just worried how he could make us look this weekend!

I do agree that premierships are won out of the middle, but I think midfield's make ruckman not the other way around. The biggest mistake the club has made and will ever make was beating Carlton in '07 cos we should have both. I hate Riley he really screwed the club.

 

[Andy_Mac]

I do agree that premierships are won out of the middle, but I think midfield's make ruckman not the other way around. The biggest mistake the club has made and will ever make was beating Carlton in '07 cos we should have both. I hate Riley he really screwed the club.

Carlton were never going to lose that match, as per us and Richmond. Beating the dogs a couple of weeks earlier was our mistake.

If we did loose the Carlton match however we would have finished last and thus had P1 ILO P4? which would mean we would have Kruzier ilo of Morton, so no need for nicnat??

 

[LITTLE STINGA]

Carlton were never going to lose that match, as per us and Richmond. Beating the dogs a couple of weeks earlier was our mistake.

If we did loose the Carlton match however we would have finished last and thus had P1 ILO P4? which would mean we would have Kruzier ilo of Morton, so no need for nicnat??

Robbo played injured and still kicked 5 or 6 take him out and we could of easily lost. Playing Neitz a week of 2 later when he should been out for 6 weeks was absolutely crazy. We should have had a lot of players go off to have surgery earlier that's why we had so few players at the start of pre season that year and for him to go to Carlton straight after it was a slap in the face. We knew the situation against Carlton but we didn't against the dogs we should of done a better job in losing.

Richmond won the spoon so we would of got Cotchin.

 

[2 Dogs]

Robbo played injured and still kicked 5 or 6 take him out and we could of easily lost. Playing Neitz a week of 2 later when he should been out for 6 weeks was absolutely crazy. We should have had a lot of players go off to have surgery earlier that's why we had so few players at the start of pre season that year and for him to go to Carlton straight after it was a slap in the face. We knew the situation against Carlton but we didn't against the dogs we should of done a better job in losing.

Richmond won the spoon so we would of got Cotchin.

True we would have only got pick 2 that year which would most probably be used on Cotchin. But it would have qualified us for both Watts and Natanui the following year. I don't know why we are discussing this though considering it's done and we have who we have.

Forget Natanui. No good stems from discussing him. Unless it's 4 years from bow when Watts is ripping teams to shreds.

 

[saj_21]

Stinga,
Thanks for your post. Stinga, by all means i am not comparing Watts & Natanui in footballing abilty, you cant, there totally different footballers. My concern is that the club, IMO might of overlooked the fact that we probably needed a quality ruckman before a key forward. Imagine the centre square in 5 years- Niknat, trengrove, scully, gysberts ect.. Unstoppable!!
I strongly believe that you win premierships out of the middle, as geelong have proven, and IMO Niknat was the pivitol ingredient. It's quite obvious that we also need a power forward, but lets be honest, from what ive seen Natinui could rest at FF and be just as dangerous and effective in 5 years as Watts!!
Mate, footballers in Natinui's mould don't come around very often, he is a freak of nature and i've never seen a footballer with his height, leap and speed for a long, long time. Im just worried how he could make us look this weekend!

Geelong proved you don't need a quality ruckmen to win a flag, they used King in 07 towards the end of his career and blake last year, hardly A grade ruckmen and Otto as back up and up fwd. Hawthorn used Renouf and Robbie Campbell, all these guys do is provide a contest, at the centre boucne and compete will at ground level.

If you had the choice between Cox and Franklin who would you chose? Ultimately a KPF who can kick 80+ goals in a year is far more valuable the a ruckmen. I am not stating watts and natia will turn out to be like Franklin and Cox, but that is the comparison that needs to be made, KPF vs Ruckmen.

Defeating Carlton in Round 22 2007 a mistake?

As andy mac mentioned beating the dogs a couple rounds earlier killed us!

 

[The Professor]

If we did loose the Carlton match however we would have finished last and thus had P1 ILO P4? which would mean we would have Kruzier ilo of Morton, so no need for nicnat??

The difference of 1 game.

Win 5 games in 07. Our top picks. Morton, Grimes, Maric, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove, Gysbert, Tapscott.

Win 4 games in 07. Our top picks. Cotchin, Grimes, Ward, Maric, Watts, Naitanui, Blease, Scully, Trengove, Gysbert, Tapscott.

 

[Supermercado]

Still waiting for the ban that I was supposed to get from the other thread. Didn't log in for half a day and missed out on all the fun before it was locked.

 

[Demon Revival]

Still waiting for the ban that I was supposed to get from the other thread. Didn't log in for half a day and missed out on all the fun before it was locked.

I think you owe A Mac an apology for your tardiness, the poor bloke's coffee went cold waiting for your royal response.... It's not too late to vent your anger !!!!!

 

[Andy_Mac]

I think you owe A Mac an apology for your tardiness, the poor bloke's coffee went cold waiting for your royal response.... It's not too late to vent your anger !!!!!

Sad part is i actually went and got a coffee and was looking forward to reading merc the turncoats retort.

 

[2 Dogs]

Sad part is i actually went and got a coffee and was looking forward to reading merc the turncoats retort.

As were the rest of us, although sadly without coffee.