Losing culture

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S

Snoochems

Team Captain
Veteran
Apr 7, 2007
513
137
Orange, NSW
AFL Club
GWS
Hi all. Any one else concerned that the constant beltings will lead to an ingrained losing culture?

Many are saying the giants will be force in a few years, but they could end up another cultural basket-case aka Melbourne. I feel they have gone backwards since last year.

When does losing just become an acceptable habit? I'm doubting this strategy to load up on kids and geriatrics is the best way to build a club. I want to go to the footy and believe we could beat even s**t teams like the Demons.
 
Not concerned about developing a losing culture. These boys are going to cope some floggings but I reckon it will make them hungry for wins and make them ruthless when they are able to hang with teams for the full game.

The concern is satifying the fan base and that will be a hard task, the Sydney market is fickle and people will not come out to see a losing team.....in any code.

Having said that the AFL did us no favours this week scheduling us as a lunchtime game on mothers day against a team that has zero following in Sydney, and rhe crowd was really pathetic, and the official number is very rubbery IMO, I would have said 5000 tops from where I sat in the Members
 

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We went backwards today. We haven't gone backwards this year. Are we suddenly just forgetting last week's effort against an unbeaten Essendon in Melbourne.

Today was truly horrible, but overall our year is better this than last.
 
We definately have improved on last year....and that could be seen even today...we would be kidding ourselves if we though we were not going to cope a few games like this this year. We were cold and the crows were really hot and that happens.
 
I see young players who want to win, and want to improve themselves as players every week, so I'm not too worried.

I think it's only a concern if you don't want to win, because then you don't improve.
 
Sorry for the intrusion, but I have a soft spot for GWS.

Losing culture is a silly expression for people trying to avoid confronting the truth, or looking for a way to explain things they can't explain. The concept seems to sell a lot of management courses and books though.

There is no losing culture, as long as they go out and try their best (which they do every week) they will get better as they get stronger.

Did the Swans have a losing culture which someone turned into a winning culture? Can you have a winning culture without winning? Poppycock all of it!
 
AsianWithAFro said:
Once Sheedy is out of the way and Cameron takes the reigns we will be fine.
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No longer even good as a spruiker (that immigration comment really came out the wrong way but the media in Sydney don't care), hopefully you guys find some good assistants to help Leon Cameron out next year.
 
Look - the second year blues are going to hit us even harder than what it hit the Suns last year (they were hit hard the first half of the season).

With both Cornes and Patton out, now Setanta, and only skinny kids to replace them - we're in for a world of pain this year.

Every now and then we might see a good quarter to remind us of what will be possible over the next five years.

But we have to be realistic about this season, as much as I hate to admit it, we are going to struggle to register a win, and that's going to be a disaster for attendances this year.
 
coniglio_number1 said:
Gold coast went backwards in year 2 as well as its to expected when 90% of the list has 2nd year blues. They resorted this year and are showing substantial improvement. With our hard nut gameplan I expect massive gains next season!
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This, well said
 

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Aside from the Suns, can someone provide another example of "second year blues"? I find it a curious comment... yes there have been other expansion teams in the past but they were created under very different circumstances... is there really a precedent for this sort of thing?



Many years ago I was involved in a startup club in Sydney largely made up of kids like myself who hadn't played before. It was indeed tough to get flogged every single week for an entire season. Our second season we exploited loopholes and made the semis. I digress. Anyway, it was tough to get the motivation going week in week out. But we weren't professional sportsmen. I know these guys are young but I reckon they've got a much better chance of coping than what we did, especially with experienced coaches and a framework all around them rather than someones dad.

The overall culture of the club and its effect on that is another story though. I wonder what effect those woeful bears had on the longterm attitudes of brisbanites towards the team despite the premiership wins. The swans seemed to have been able to move beyond it in the end though.


Article at theroar:

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/05/15/why-we-should-ease-up-on-the-gws-giants/
 
ciudadmarron said:
Aside from the Suns, can someone provide another example of "second year blues"? I find it a curious comment... yes there have been other expansion teams in the past but they were created under very different circumstances... is there really a precedent for this sort of thing?
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I think it is more around players generally go through second year blues or sophomore slumps - so a team based on first year players will go through it collectively.

I personally believe it is due to the team (or player) no longer being a surprise and other teams able to prepare for them now. Teams know if they take it easy against us we can cause an upset, so they take us less for granted. They also know our players more and who needs to be kept quiet to beat us.

I don't think there is any losing culture being developed here - they are still in a "pre-season mode", though less so since year 1. Players are being isolated from the media thanks to Sheedy. They are letting the team grow nicely. The only thing I don't like this season is we seem to worse at contested possession and clearances this year, about the only thing we were good at last year.
 
ciudadmarron said:
Aside from the Suns, can someone provide another example of "second year blues"? I find it a curious comment... yes there have been other expansion teams in the past but they were created under very different circumstances... is there really a precedent for this sort of thing?
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As Mountain Giant said, it's pretty common that individual players will have what is dubbed "second year blues". It's just that the two new expansion clubs brought in so many players in a single draft that they all effectively have "second year blues" at the same time, hence why the club is referred to having such.



ciudadmarron said:
Many years ago I was involved in a startup club in Sydney largely made up of kids like myself who hadn't played before. It was indeed tough to get flogged every single week for an entire season. Our second season we exploited loopholes and made the semis.
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:D
 
You and the Suns are an experiment in list creation. Its never been done like this before. The rhetoric about mega sides is only the upside optimistic view. Nothing is ever guaranteed. No system works all the time. Certainly Geelong has been lauded for player picks and player development but everyone club had the same player development , there still will be 10 sides out of the 8 , and 1 on the bottom. And as much as the upside is a glorious era for both clubs, alternating Premierships year after year for a decade , they could just as easily just fall short , or in fact flounder at any stage due to unforeseen impediments.

No one really knows how having that many kids all together , all learning at the same time, all experiencing the creation of a club and the birth of a team will effect their career. Will they become stronger because of the duress , hardened due to the heat of early thrashings. Or do they become scarred , weakened , loosing confidence , loosing their game ... No one expect all the kids to succeed. Its why so many have been given to the new clubs. It will be interesting to watch how many that fall out of the system find other chances and succeed. For instant we have Flanagan at Geelong play VFL. Will he become an AFL player away from youth drenched list?

I don't think Melb is the ideal comparison to GWS or GC. For a start changing a list of established players , some who have played their careers at a club , a club they consider theirs is fraught with dangers for any newbie coach. The advantage of freshness is the adventitious appeal. The hardships suffered may be like a right of passage done together from the very start of the team.

I don't think the losing is creating a cultural thing because the newness of all the kids. The club insiders will understand that winning is not the goal atm. They will be developing a culture of hard work , of playing the right way , by benchmarking KPI's that they value. They know once done , the wins should follow in time. But when?

Just like pressure can create Diamonds , it can bend metal. The pressure most clubs feel has only been minimal at the new clubs , so there really has been minimal damage to identity. At the moment your in a Honeymoon period. Suns are one year ahead but year by year the pressure will mount on both clubs to produce. Already the success of the Soccer has AFL power players question the all kid approach in the GWS area. Very soon the days of 100 point thrashing will have to be a thing of the past.. or else.
 
As others have mentioned, the "second year blues" is a very common phenomenon clearly observable at AFL level, and we have hundreds of examples across a 25 year period.

It's actually not all that difficult to work out why.

The first year player comes into the game relying mainly on adrenalin and intuition. Little is expected of him, there is less pressure on him and he flies under the guard of opposition teams because they don't know anything about him.

Second year comes along, and if he put in a few good performances in his debut year, everyone knows about him. Opposition coaches will know his weaknesses, they'll get their match ups right, opposition players will focus on them more because they know he can play a bit.

Throw in expectations from own coaching staff, team rules, dimininshing the instinctive side and enforcing more of a team focus, being forced to fit a particular role, etc, etc

Lastly, throw in a few niggly injuries, and the exhaustion which comes from training like a senior player - and you have the recipe for the second year blues.
 
dlanod said:
As Mountain Giant said, it's pretty common that individual players will have what is dubbed "second year blues". It's just that the two new expansion clubs brought in so many players in a single draft that they all effectively have "second year blues" at the same time, hence why the club is referred to having such.





:D
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Ok fellas makes sense and now that I think about it have heard it used for individual players. Have also heard it used with regards to promoted teams in soccer or a similar term at any rate. Agreed about teams being more prepared for what you have to offer.

And seriously, i went from playing in the under 16s one year to playing in the under 15s. Having a few extra big bodies does wonders. :D
 
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