Lyon identifies the way forward

[footycraic]

Hi all

I have written a short article on Ross Lyon and Fremantle. It can be found here at footycraic.

Would be interested in your thoughts on the article and general feedback on the site. Be kind .

Thanks!

footycraic

 

[Yeti]

I have real issues with this line:

"the stark facts are that Lyon has failed – to date - at Fremantle"

As a long suffering supporter I dispute Ross Lyon has been a failure. He has failed to win a premiership which is clearly a lot harder to win in the modern age of football than when there was onky 12 teams.

Where Ross has succeded is:
- The Club presents as a united and stable collective all working towards the same goal, which I believe is to develop young men into outstanding people and then great footballers.

- We have a clearly defines game plan which was clearly lacking in eveey other coach. Even if you don't like his defensive style, at least we know what his style is.

- He has turned us helped the Steves turn us from the ******ed red headed step child that no one wanted into a force to be hated. I am so glad wr are not looked at with sympathy anymore but have genuine rivalry with clubs other than West Coke.

And finally I find your article is a bit meh. It doesn't provide any new analysis or information that has not been done before.

 

[estibador]

I have real issues with this line:

"the stark facts are that Lyon has failed – to date - at Fremantle"

I'd have to agree with this criticism.

footycraic: Blunt, simplistic statements like that will probably get you more eyeballs, sadly enough, but nuanced analysis is what will earn you respect amongst intelligent football fans. Any Bay13 idiot can look at the final score of a grand final and say Ross Lyon failed, but an intelligent analyst should be able to look beyond that.

I have similar issues with this line:

"The former St Kilda coach was recruited to lead the Western Australian club to a flag."

That's the hope yes, but all coaches are hired with the aim of winning a flag. I don't remember Freo coming out and stipulating he was hired to win us a flag in X amount of years, but the media run with lazy cliches like that because it makes it sound like he's sitting on a ticking timebomb.

He was poached because he's indisputably one of the top coaches in the AFL, flag or no flag (there's that nuance again), and he was easily the best coach available once our hierarchy had lost confidence in Harvey.

Again, inflammatory statements might draw you more traffic, but they won't gain you respect. So it depends on the type of writer/journo you want to be seen as.

Would be interested in your thoughts on the article and general feedback on the site. Be kind.

Feedback will never be kind from sports fans my friend, because we're so much more passionate than many other audiences. It's a tough subject to write about in that regard, as I'm sure you know.

 

[theGav56]

Yes I have to agree with esti. Just a very simplistic look at Lyon at Freo. Getting Lyon crystalized a new attitude at the club. There is a real depth in how the club operates, with an edge of ruthlessness. Those are a couple of the qualities Lyon brings. While a flag is the goal, with him we are trying to build the platform that makes us a successful club. Your article is another version of the "Lyon can't coach because he has never won a flag" mantra.

 

[basashi]

I agree with the substance of the criticisms above but I also point out the state of the industry. The chief football writer for the Hun can barely string a sentence together and most writers just engage in tub thumping for their own club.

Quality and insight are not issues that will rule you in or out of a career writing about the AFL.

 

[mike91]

No mention of Taberner or Crozier shows the lack of knowledge you have about Fremantle in my opinion.

 

[E Shed]

No mention of Taberner or Crozier shows the lack of knowledge of you have about Fremantle in my opinion.

I would add Duffy to that.

Its not a bad effort (the article), but we are a tough crowd. Take not particularly of Estibador's criticism above in relation to what sort of writer you want to be.

As I get older I get increasingly annoyed with stupid mantras like "we exist to win premierships" and other simplistic argument.
Of course every club tries to win the premiership every year. Its the point of the competition but there have been many many great players and very very good teams that haven't.
The point of existing or what you aim for should be constant improvement through sustained effort and controlling what you.

I'm probably in the minority but I'm happy to be a member of a consistently high achieving AFL team. I would dance for a week if we won the flag next year but I'm not going to consider 10 months of hard work a waste of time if we don't. If we underachieve then its a waste of time but you can only work with that you have and our list isn't as talented as Sydney or Hawthorns list. We might have injuries to crucial players like Johnson and McPharlin or lose another vital cog like Walters for most of the the year. Great teams as in genuinely great like Hawthorn overcome obstacles and that is what we aspire to. Enjoying the journey is just as important as the destination (to me as a fan).

Most of the Vic clubs haven't won a flag since Freo came into the comp.

 

[Righteo]

To be brutally honest it seems like a lazy collection of group-think contentions that one would only need 5 minutes of searching Ross Lyon threads on the main board to cobble together.

I think when discussing Lyon and his effect on the FFC you just need to juxtapose his 3 year stint with our history prior to that and you'll see why he's held in high esteem by Freo fans.

 

[footycraic]

Thanks for the feedback and taking the time to read the article. Much appreciated.

The failure statement was made in the context of viewing "success" as premierships. Of course, it's not always that black and white but sometimes the beauty of sport is the simplicity it brings: there is one winner and the rest have failed in their pursuit for glory.

Just for the record - I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ross Lyon. He is fantastic coach and leader and most other clubs would sign him in a heartbeat.

As to the comments about the lack of knowledge of the list. I concede that I don't have the same level of knowledge as some of you, but I was looking for a wider audience than just Fremantle supporters. I didn't want to get bogged down in detail and I didn't want the article to be too lengthy (otherwise people won't read it).

Feedback will never be kind from sports fans my friend, because we're so much more passionate than many other audiences. It's a tough subject to write about in that regard, as I'm sure you know.

Never a truer word spoken .

footycraic

 

[jmadrox]

As to the comments about the lack of knowledge of the list. I concede that I don't have the same level of knowledge as some of you, but I was looking for a wider audience than just Fremantle supporters. I didn't want to get bogged down in detail and I didn't want the article to be too lengthy (otherwise people won't read it).

I think this is where you are wrong. Everyone knows that Walters is a jet, and that both Mayne and Sylvia had poor seasons. Out of your 588 words, 268 were dedicated to discussing these 3 players, which already have been discussed already by many people at length. Why repeat the same discussion? More insight would be gained by investigating and discussing players like Crozier, Taberner and Duffy, who realistically, could provide some significant improvement.

TBH, we are pretty harsh critics, so I am grateful about any article about our boys. I just get sick of reading the same article, rehashed into different words.

 

[Boppo]

Why did you write it? Brief, nothing particularly insightful and defining success only as winning a flag so shallow to boot. Find something more challenging to propose and have an audience in mind and I'll read further efforts at Docker talk with pleasure.

 

[footycraic]

I think this is where you are wrong. Everyone knows that Walters is a jet, and that both Mayne and Sylvia had poor seasons. Out of your 588 words, 268 were dedicated to discussing these 3 players, which already have been discussed already by many people at length. Why repeat the same discussion? More insight would be gained by investigating and discussing players like Crozier, Taberner and Duffy, who realistically, could provide some significant improvement.

TBH, we are pretty harsh critics, so I am grateful about any article about our boys. I just get sick of reading the same article, rehashed into different words.

Had I instead spent 268 words on those three, people would of criticised me for overlooking the obvious. And I didn't want to use a thousand words critiquing the whole list. Sometimes you can't have it all. The intended audience was the wider football public, not rusted on die hards who probably know the list better than Ross Lyon!

Happy to consider publishing any of your articles. PM me if interested.

I haven't read any articles covering this recently, however having said that I don't read West Australian press (maybe I should).

Cheers


Footycraic.

 

[jmadrox]

Had I instead spent 268 words on those three, people would of criticised me for overlooking the obvious. And I didn't want to use a thousand words critiquing the whole list. Sometimes you can't have it all. The intended audience was the wider football public, not rusted on die hards who probably know the list better than Ross Lyon!

Happy to consider publishing any of your articles. PM me if interested.

dont get me wrong, i wasnt bagging you mate. You asked for our thoughts and those were my thoughts. I aint a writers arseh*le, and anyhting written on freo is a good thing imo. With the words, you said you didnt want it to be too long (agreed, was a good length) I was just saying that 50% was on those three guys who most people know about anyway. if you spent a few words identifying them, but then moving on to the unknowns, it would provide more insight to the non-freo-obsessed world about the options we have.

I haven't read any articles covering this recently, however having said that I don't read West Australian press (maybe I should).

No. Seriously, dont bother.

 

[strobe00]

"It is perhaps not without a touch of irony that a coach renowned for his defensive acumen is so heavily reliant on his forwards to deliver that elusive flag."

I don't think there's any irony in that. It makes sense.

He's renowned for his defensive acumen. True. So defense won't be the issue.

It stands to reason that the attacking side of the game will be the issue. Nothing ironic about it. Ironic would be if our defense was losing us games despite him being a great defensive coach.

 

[andrew99]

"It is perhaps not without a touch of irony that a coach renowned for his defensive acumen is so heavily reliant on his forwards to deliver that elusive flag."

I don't think there's any irony in that. It makes sense.

He's renowned for his defensive acumen. True. So defense won't be the issue.

It stands to reason that the attacking side of the game will be the issue. Nothing ironic about it. Ironic would be if our defense was losing us games despite him being a great defensive coach.

This, also Lyon's defensive coach credentials have nothing to do with his reliance on his forwards: it's an intrinsic part of AFL, ALL teams are heavily reliant on forwards scoring. If Lyon was an attacking coach he would still be"heavily reliant" on his forwards.

In fact you could argue in the entire league, Lyon's teams are LESS reliant on forwards scoring than any other team.
Primarily as we need to score less to win & as a result can rely more on midfield contributions.

 

[andrew99]

Why did you write it? Brief, nothing particularly insightful and defining success only as winning a flag so shallow to boot. Find something more challenging to propose and have an audience in mind and I'll read further efforts at Docker talk with pleasure.

A better, more challenging and more debate inducing article would be one that argued Lyon is a success despite his GF losses. Or one that explores the reasons Lyon is so renowned within the industry. I have no doubt that either of these talking points would attract much more attention than a banal rendition of what has already been said by a largely ignorant and belligerent football public. No offence OP.