Malthouse - Collingwood List Duplication

[The Old Dark Navy's]

First things first. Before any Pies supporters quote me on their board, I am not comparing quality of player but their playing roles.

Increasingly, it is becoming obvious that Casboult is being used as a Leigh Brown type but also switching to a Dawes role from time to time. I see Cas and Kreuzer being interchangeable between these two roles but can also see Kreuzer being Jolly of 2010 but that leaves me wondering what to do with Warnock.

I also see Ellard being used as Mick's new Jarryd Blair. Henderson's swingman ability is reminiscent of Ben Reid while Everitt's roving tall/small role might substitute for Goldsack.

Our defenders are also playing a dour disciplined tall structure with Jamo or Rowe able to fill a Presti type role, ably supported by the rebounding mid sized players with Yarran and Docherty filling the Davis/Shaw roles. Walker is a good substitute for Lumumba as they play tall or small when required.

The match ups aren't perfect but I tried to slot them in somewhere.

This is every player that got a game for the Pies in 2010 matched up by a member of the current Carlton squad.

Mick didn't recruit most of these players but do we think he is moulding them into roles he had success with at Collingwood?
---------------------------------------------------------
Swan - Murphy
Pendlebury - Gibbs
Thomas - Thomas
Lumumba - Walker
Toovey - Buckley
Jolly - Warnock
Beams - Judd
Sidebottom - Simpson
Didak - Menzel
Ball - McLean
Wellingham - Lucas
Cloke - Waite
Shaw - Docherty
Johnson - Tuohy
Maxwell - White
McCaffer - Curnow
Reid - Henderson
Dawes – Kreuzer/Casboult
Davis - Yarran
L Brown – Kreuzer/Casboult
N Brown - Jamison
Prestigiacomo – Rowe/Jamison could both fit here but Jamison has more agility to fill the N Brown role
Blair – Ellard
Lockyer - Robinson
Goldsack - Everitt
Medhurst – Garlett
O’Bree – Bell
McCarthy – Carrazzo
Wood - Wood
Anthony - McInnes
Dick – Graham
Fraser - ?

Others – Carlton
Cripps
Graham
Bell
Bootsma
Armfield

 

[SBYM]

First things first. Before any Pies supporters quote me on their board, I am not comparing quality of player but their playing roles.

...
Thomas-Thomas
Wood - Wood

Interesting train of thought, and valid I think…his 'formula' worked in the past, why not have another crack?

Good luck with explaining your caveat, they'll be getting stuck into you quick sticks.

Ha! at the bolded.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ha! at the bolded.

I took a chance.

Although Thomas of 2010 is not Thomas of 2014. Simpson might be a better matchup.

 

[BALKAN]

I would have thought Judd would be interchangeable with Ball.

Interesting theory, but does he have time to 'mould' them? Collingwood were a relatively young premiership team, a lot of our key players are approaching 30 (or already there)

 

[gbatman]

yeah i think it's only natural that a coach, particularly one who has had success in his past would be looking go with a similar structure. Many of the top teams have similarities in their structure, Mick has his ideas of "what you need" to win premierships etc and I'm sure he'll stick with it. Should hopefully see more of his desired structure in upcoming seasons hopefully.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I would have thought Judd would be interchangeable with Ball.

Probably but I always think of McLean and Ball pace wise.

Interesting theory, but does he have time to 'mould' them? Collingwood were a relatively young premiership team, a lot of our key players are approaching 30 (or already there)

He doesn't have time. Waite will have to be replaced as will Judd. It's just that the role comparisons are starting to appear more starkly.

 

[LordLucifer]

Malthouse has in his head, what he believes is a winning formula when it comes to creating a playing list. This always includes 2-3 project types (ie. Leigh Brown) who he likes to turn into something special as well to make the more talented players strive even harder.

There is no doubting he is going to replicate that formula with us, the big question is how many of them genuinely are up to the standard he requires ??

The other thing that needs to be factored in is that he always starts off with fresh young "unblemished" players and brainwashes/indoctrinates them into his way of playing & thinking. This is why we are seeing the emergence of Menzel & Buckley this season, they do not have the 'skeletons in the closet' like some of the older players do (eg. Waite).

 

[Azul]

What role Bootsma? I see him as the artist formerly known as Harry O'Brien (his name circa 2010).

Lumumba is a running half back flanker forced to pinch-hit on taller opponents, who has blossomed into something of an outside midfielder/wingman under Nathan Buckley.

We can only hope. Josh, o brother where art thou?

 

[HBF]

Bit of a stretch comparing Lucas to Wellingham, but a great post nonetheless.
We all know that Mick has the runs on the board in terms of being able to build a list, and give him another off season to make some changes and his list will really start to take shape.

 

[vjknight]

hey OP - just a thought. considering the ages are quite different, would a comparison with the pies 2002/03 teams be more relevant ?

essentially built from what he inherited, followed by a long term rebuild.

 

[Azul]

Please don't defile our board with a photo of Tania Turd.

Too long ago to remember the deeds of Heath Scotland in black and white.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

hey OP - just a thought. considering the ages are quite different, would a comparison with the pies 2002/03 teams be more relevant ?

essentially built from what he inherited, followed by a long term rebuild.

It's not a list comparison. It's a role comparison and it is 2010 because that's where he had success. It is not supposed to be an indication of quality or premiership clocks. I have made this clear.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Bit of a stretch comparing Lucas to Wellingham, but a great post nonetheless.
We all know that Mick has the runs on the board in terms of being able to build a list, and give him another off season to make some changes and his list will really start to take shape.

Just slotting them in so I could list them. There are many role comparisons that are accurate but obviously a whole list isn't going to match. Feel free to switch them around.


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[Gone Critical]

Interesting idea and thread. A small point perhaps but Mick never used Reid as a swingman. He came to the club as a forward, got a few senior games fairly early and struggled. In 2009 played a VFL season as CHB and cme into that spot in 2010. In 2010-11 he only played backman. AA 2011 CHB. It was the emergence of Keefe as CHB which allowed Buckley to use Reid as a swingman in 2013.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Interesting idea and thread. A small point perhaps but Mick never used Reid as a swingman. He came to the club as a forward, got a few senior games fairly early and struggled. In 2009 played a VFL season as CHB and cme into that spot in 2010. In 2010-11 he only played backman. AA 2011 CHB. It was the emergence of Keefe as CHB which allowed Buckley to use Reid as a swingman in 2013.

I meant to add that Henderson and Reid was more of a current match up than a 2010 one as they fit so well currently and there was no obvious swingman comparison from 2010.

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[Gone Critical]

Agree they are similar players, a good match.

 

[JustaBattler]

Stop trolling the Board ODN

 

[Chism]

Interesting thread and if Mick gets us into that biggest game of the year multiple times and wins one like he did with the Pies i could not give a rats toss what comparisons are sneezed at or how this thread looks!


Good thread though ODN!

 

[BlueTongue]

...SNIP!...

Others – Carlton
Cripps
Graham
Bell

Bootsma
Armfield

Lockyer - Robinson <-- Have a problem with this, Lockyer had superb footskills but was soft as shite. Robbo is the direct opposite.

Goldsack - Everitt
Medhurst – Garlett
O’Bree – Robinson <-- I think this is a more typical senario as Robbo is less of a forward than Lockyer
McCarthy – Carrazzo
Wood - Wood
Anthony - McInnes
Dick – Graham
Fraser - ?

Others – Carlton
Cripps
Graham
Bell <---- No-one in the 2010 Pies like him really, maybe Ben Reid??

Bootsma
Armfield

 

[HBF]

Love what Mick is doing with the list this year.
Who would have thought Everitt could turn himself into a run with player.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Lockyer - Robinson <-- Have a problem with this, Lockyer had superb footskills but was soft as shite. Robbo is the direct opposite.

Goldsack - Everitt
Medhurst – Garlett
O’Bree – Robinson <-- I think this is a more typical senario as Robbo is less of a forward than Lockyer
McCarthy – Carrazzo
Wood - Wood
Anthony - McInnes
Dick – Graham
Fraser - ?

Others – Carlton
Cripps
Graham
Bell <---- No-one in the 2010 Pies like him really, maybe Ben Reid??

Bootsma
Armfield

Cripes . Getting so people won't want to start threads.

It was a loose list showing similar styles and I said I had mismatched a couple because I didn't have match ups. Thus suggestions good, criticism bad.

Disagree with Reid and Bell though. Young KPP v bullocking mid. We should at least marry them in the same species.

I feel the point has been lost because of the list. Mick has a role template in mind based on his Pies success.

 

[Jabba73]

Great work ODN, have been thinking along similar lines (although with far less effort) in the last few weeks.

The obvious one is Rowe playing that lockdown, little or no attacking, super defensive role that Prestigia-combover made his own for so long.

Also liking the one pure ruckman and one forward/ruck that he favours. Will be an interesting dilemma once Kreuzer returns as we will lose a lot of chase and tackle pressure and marking power if he replaces Casboult. Kreuzer does not seem to be an adequate forward whereas Casboult seems to be an adequate relief ruckman. Warnock may be the unlucky one upon his return.

Mick also seems to like the dashing small defenders and medium forwards with x factor, thankfully we have unearthed an absolute beauty in both positions. I think Buckley will be used more like Shaw as the trust in his decision making grows.

It will be more interesting to compare the list player for player in another 12 months time when the squad will be full of players who Mick has chosen to keep because they fit in with what he wants, not simply because he had to, as you cant change 75% of the list in one season (unless forced to EssADA* style once the Infraction Notices are issued).

An interesting exercise, thanks for taking the time to share as it provides plenty of food for thought.

 

[Wickzki]

Who would have thought Everitt could turn himself into a run with player.

Honestly, the Bulldogs recruitment staff at the time that he was drafted claimed that he would become a top run with player who would win more than his share of the ball and be a difficult player for his opponent to go with the other way.

Their summary appears to be spot on even though it has taken until Mick to give him a fair crack at it.