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You have issues.
Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions
- Thread starter Goosecat
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kaiserchief13
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Speaking from experience are you? If so, please clarify?
So. Let me get this straight.....You are saying that in model 1 for symptomatic infections there was a 27 fold risk, however when looking at model 2, and remembering that the authors state "There was a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic breakthrough infection than symptomatic reinfection" when time of infection was removed to allow infections back to anytime prior to Feb 28, that you dont believe that a 27 fold risk that now has been reduced to 7.13 fold isnt a significant drop??
Do you data much??
The 27 fold risk has now dropped to a 7.13 fold risk. Thats a drop of 3.7 times.....
"Broadening the research question to examine the extent of the phenomenon, we allowed the infection to occur at any time between March 2020 to February 2021 (when different variants were dominant in Israel), compared to vaccination only in January and February 2021. Although the results could suggest waning natural immunity against the Delta variant, those vaccinated are still at a 5.96-fold increased risk for breakthrough infection and at a 7.13-fold increased risk for symptomatic disease compared to those previously infected"
And you accuse me of looking for illogical conclusions...It is actually their data that shows that conclusion....
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- Banned
- #4,629
What evidence do you have to support the suggestion that the medical professionals noting causes of death are just writing 'covid' because its easy?
kingswood71 can give you a great explanation of why this doesn't happen.
I'm curious whether you apply the same opinion of the professionals being corrupt and lazy to other parts of life. Or if its just this one because its convenient and suits a narrative?
U12.9
kaiserchief13
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I don't have any evidence, but I think logically and think how many people perform in their jobs. If someone is under the pump, wouldn't they do whatever is easiest?
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- #4,632
To put it in simple maths: 27 down to 7 is a reduction of 75%. Pretty much on par with what has generally been reported in the media (that the vaccine reduces by up to 80%).
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- #4,633
So you have no evidence, but the number of reported covid deaths must definitely be exaggerated because you think its easier and that the doctors and nurses reporting on it are wholesale lazy and corrupt.
Solid argument.
kaiserchief13
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You can deny it if you want, but good to know you always put in 110% in your occupation
Big Fat no.
Medical certs are very legal documents. Any death we dont know the actual cause of gets referred to the coroner.
There are standards protocols etc when comes to reporting
I have to say, it's been refreshing to have a weekend off from this thread. Spent the time celebrating a friends birthday which ended with some poorly sung karaoke at 2am and backed that up with a 5hr lunch with other friends trying to speak with a croaky voice.
I see not much has changed since Friday. Same old misrepresentation of data by some, without any acknowledgement that they've misrepresented the data when it's pointed out. As someone else posted earlier, if you do that enough then nothing you contribute will be seen as valid.
One thing I just had to reply to:
Just for the record, we teach critical thinking skills at school and have been for some time. Some students just do not take it up. Critical thinking skills are unfortunately somewhat attached to a persons personality, which is heavily influenced by their social and familial relationships. You can learn them, but that doesn't mean you're going to apply that learning on a regular basis. For instance, if someone is easily influenced by others then their critical thinking skills are not going to be as high as those that aren't.
I guess I just get a little offended when we have some sort of social issue arise and the response is "it's an indication of failure in schools". We do our absolute best and our role is only getting more and more complex, with these new responsibilities needing to be achieved in the same number of contact hours with no pay increase attached to it, while still needing to teach the actual curriculum. I'd love that narrative to shift a little sometimes to "it's an indication of some parents not doing a great job of parenting". It's always the school's fault, never parental responsibility.
I see not much has changed since Friday. Same old misrepresentation of data by some, without any acknowledgement that they've misrepresented the data when it's pointed out. As someone else posted earlier, if you do that enough then nothing you contribute will be seen as valid.
One thing I just had to reply to:
Just for the record, we teach critical thinking skills at school and have been for some time. Some students just do not take it up. Critical thinking skills are unfortunately somewhat attached to a persons personality, which is heavily influenced by their social and familial relationships. You can learn them, but that doesn't mean you're going to apply that learning on a regular basis. For instance, if someone is easily influenced by others then their critical thinking skills are not going to be as high as those that aren't.
I guess I just get a little offended when we have some sort of social issue arise and the response is "it's an indication of failure in schools". We do our absolute best and our role is only getting more and more complex, with these new responsibilities needing to be achieved in the same number of contact hours with no pay increase attached to it, while still needing to teach the actual curriculum. I'd love that narrative to shift a little sometimes to "it's an indication of some parents not doing a great job of parenting". It's always the school's fault, never parental responsibility.
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kaiserchief13
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Maybe in Australia.....hence why the death number is so much lower than overseas
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- #4,639
"I have no proof but I'm right, and I can only be wrong if you're a superhuman perfect person, which you're not, so nya nya"
Kudos, you at least try to sound like you're thinking logically. But you're no different to the conspiracy theorists. At least they have a reason why they think what they do, instead of just 'i think everyone is lazy bordering on corrupt'
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You would think it would be easy to understand now wouldnt you??
If the RR increase is 27 when looking at 2 variables (re-infection and vaccination) when you apply a specific time for infection to have happened, but then the RR increase drops to 7 when the time limit is removed but still compares the same variables, its dropped. Dropped by 3.7 times.
The authors say "In model 2, we compared the SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees to unvaccinated previously infected individuals while intentionally not matching the time of the first
event (i.e., either vaccination or infection), in order to compare vaccine-induced immunity to natural immunity, regardless of time of infection"....and the RR increase dropped...their own data showed it did
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Also, I've just been thinking on this adverse effects reporting to DAEN. I would be fairly confident in saying that there would be a significant number of adverse effects being reported currently as everyone is so hyper-focussed on the vaccination.
For instance, I can imagine that there'd be a significant number of general public who have the flu vaccine and have some sort of reaction afterwards would just ride it out and complain to their friends about it, but not necessarily report it to DAEN or their GP (probably because they don't actually know that they can or don't even think about it). Whereas in the current environment, the same sort of reaction gets immediately reported (whether it's a very mild reaction or not), resulting in a much higher prevalence in the DAEN database.
Of course, this is just a hypothesis of mine and I have no data to back it up so don't quote me on it!
For instance, I can imagine that there'd be a significant number of general public who have the flu vaccine and have some sort of reaction afterwards would just ride it out and complain to their friends about it, but not necessarily report it to DAEN or their GP (probably because they don't actually know that they can or don't even think about it). Whereas in the current environment, the same sort of reaction gets immediately reported (whether it's a very mild reaction or not), resulting in a much higher prevalence in the DAEN database.
Of course, this is just a hypothesis of mine and I have no data to back it up so don't quote me on it!
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Personally I have not issue with people wanting to understand the science better. I'm happy to disucuss it all day long. I do have an issue with the biased non-informative approach which comes across as definitive.
At least you read the article, I went straight to study. I didn't want to spell it out for Bluee, but I did ask what he thought model 2.
Otherwise your rope gets caught in the rabbit hole they are in. Are the just thrown them the rope and say "try and get out".
I know that you know on a an intrinsic level, that you don't actaully know what you wrote. My brain has never hurt so bad trying to read someone's post on a forum.
And the veil comes off. It's just anecodtal for you. That's where your emotional reasoning comes from.
The study is barely a dozen pages and is very light of words before it gets to references. The authors seemed to pre-select in a nuanced way but never exaplained intrinsically why did they this, other than saying the comoborbites were unlikley to effect study design. You don't use asympotmatic cases for your study? I would've thought understanding vaccine efficacy would be paramount if it reduced symptoms.
You were asked..
I don't think it's in the anti-vaxx manual as that would suggest critical thinking, and more importantly not using comfirmation bias as a crux.
Also add to that, that we were told to report every adverse reaction that was anything even remotely out of the ordinary
"Any significant event following immunisation
Any vaccine reaction which requires assessment by a doctor or nurse
Any reaction which has affected a family’s confidence in future immunisation" From the WA vaccine safety site.....
I said either by schools or institutions - the family is an institution by the way - , you seem to have taken that as an attack on teachers. It is not. But in terms of outcome, we have a large population of people who evidently do not have critical thinking skills and they are now exposed to an amount of information that is light years greater in volume and accessibility than previous generations were.
This creates the situation we see in this thread, for example, where people post things that are at times laughable but they seem to genuinely not understand that. This is a failure of instruction during formative experience.
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That's still more than most the antivaxers
Can’t polish a turd
You're hypothesis is correct.
Below you can see there was a high level of reporting for the H1N1 vaccine in 09-10 but then ther was a lot coverage and interest in regards. I copied the google trends H1N1 searchs at the bottom of my post.
Surveillance of Adverse Events After Seasonal Influenza Vaccination in Pregnant Women and Their Infants in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, July 2010–May 2016
...a study noted that the number of VAERS reports from pregnant women who received the H1N1 2009 inactivated monovalent vaccine (n = 288) increased compared with 1990–2009 seasonal IIV pregnancy reports (n = 148).
...the peak in the number of pregnancy reports observed during 2009–2010 followed by a decrease in reporting suggests that the 2009 spike in pregnancy reports after 2009 H1N1 inactivated vaccines may have been due to stimulated reporting.
During the study period 2010–2016, the average annual number of VAERS reports following IIV in pregnancy decreased compared with the 2009–2010 pandemic period but remained higher than prior to the pandemic. Similar to the 2009–2010 period, no new or unexpected patterns in maternal or fetal outcomes were observed during 2010–2016. Maternal influenza vaccination benefits both the mother and the infant, protecting both from influenza disease [26]. Given that the antigenic composition of these vaccines usually changes each season, the CDC and FDA will continue to monitor the safety of influenza vaccines in pregnant women.
View attachment 40264_2016_482_Fig1_HTML.webp
This happens with vaccine flu as well and in all parts of the worlds were media coverage and interest is linked to increse in adverse reports.
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When you say "schools or institutions" were you honestly including families in that or were you referring to educational facilities. Because I would suggest that 99% of people who read that statement don't think you're referring to the institution of families. I may be wrong in regards to your intention, but I don't think I am in regards to how people would interpret that and what their intentions are when they say a statement like yours. I would also suggest that saying "failure in schools" is going to be taken by teachers as an attack on teachers. Feel free to blame the VCAA or ACARA for odd curriculum choices though, I'd support you there!
In any case, I'm not sure we actually have a "large population" of people who don't have any sort of critical thinking skills. I think we have a representative population of those that haven't been able to develop those critical thinking skills even with the help of the various institutions. Using this thread as an example, there seems to be far more people who are displaying some sort of critical thinking skill as opposed to those that seem to be lacking in that area.
A big problem is the number of people who let emotion guide their thinking too much, and some sort of big issue with pride getting in the way of their ability to be comfortable with being correct. Emotional thinking can be helpful in some situations, but can be detrimental in others... this being one of them.
I absolutely agree with you on the glutton of available information being an issue. The flood of what is available means that many aren't giving each component the time it needs to properly understand it and instead formulate what they think is a well informed position, when really it is not.
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In a thread full of insane opinions, worldviews and takeaways this one is without a doubt the most completely mental of the lot.
You’re suggesting that there’s someone who has died in a hospital that while there the doctors have had no idea at all why they are sick and so instead of doing any follow up they just go ‘Eh stick COVID on the death certificate’.
Even if something like this was going to happen (which it never ever will) why would you choose to put the disease which is having every death reported on the news every single day?
This happened in virtually every other country as well where you had to report every adverse reaction even or even report a death even if it wasn't related to the vaccine. By the sounds of it you haven't had to do that yourself?
