No deaths (luckily) to report. However have reported a few other things....nothing severe, just a few out of the ordinary things...No myocarditis either
Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions
- Thread starter Goosecat
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Fair enough, given your apparent reluctance to answer a simple question with a straight answer, I'm guessing the real story doesn't fit the antivax conspiracy narrative.
kaiserchief13
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No.....they test positive for covid, as the article I linked earlier stated, but they have how many other issues? What exactly killed them? Much like when a person has the flu but dies with their organs shutting down, what is considered the cause of death?
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Last time I checked their can only be one cause of death on a death certificate and the most recent event would be the cause.
In your scenario my "guess" would be the Flu unless the person had a previous medical diagnosis.
But for the covid infection would they have died that day?....
if covid is the antecedent to what caused the death, they died from covid. If covid was the start of the chain of events leading to death, they died from covid.
kaiserchief13
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What occupation would give you that knowledge?
Bolded bits
Fair point - although what is taught now isn't the problem manifesting now anyway.
Will agree to disagree here, you have a more positive view of people than I do.
Cheers
kaiserchief13
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So with that thinking does flu or cold get listed as cause of death for people dying when their organs shut down?
They test positive and are in hospital. All their other issues haven’t required them to be in hospital until they got sick with COVID. Stands to reason that they died from COVID.
The whole death certificate thing has been explained so clearly and insightfully already.
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In certifying the cause of death only one disease should be indicated as the underlying cause. In deaths involving multiple chronic diseases that are each potentially fatal, the decision about which disease to certify as the underlying cause can be arbitrary (Gorina & Lentzner 2008).
Just to clarify here, an "underlying" cause of death is an antecedent (which is what kingswood71 mentioned before), not the recorded immediate cause of death.
If the flu was part of the chain of events that caused their organs to fail then I would assume that it would be listed as an underlying cause of death (note: not the immediate cause of death... that would be the organ failure). Correct me if I'm wrong, kingswood71.
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sr36
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We're going to have a rough decade or two in terms of misinformation, because so many grew up when published information was trusted and not often questioned. So many didn't learn to differentiate between published sources. Most of the kids coming through now are fine and get it, but it's going to take a while for the older folk to catch up.
Yes. If they were confirmed influenza and the influenza started the chain of events that lead to their death, then yes.
Multiple organ failure may not be though necessarily....it could be that they died from cardiac arrest, due to hyperkalemia, due to acute renal failure. due to sepsis, due to bacterial pneumonia due to influenza...but thats me been techincal having done many death certs
And is an example of how i would write that one....An antecendent is something that contributed directly to what the actual cause of death was...so 5 things I mentioned above before cardiac arrest which was the COD.
When my example gets coded, it would be coded as an influenza death, because it was the antecedent that started teh chain of antecedents that lead to death
So to simplify it... On a death certificate, you'll have an immediate cause of death, with potentially one or more underlying causes of deaths. If one of those underlying causes is an infectious disease then that is recorded as a death due to the infectious disease for statistical purposes and is what we hear about when yearly influenza (as an example) death numbers are reported.Multiple organ failure may not be though necessarily....it could be that they died from cardiac arrest, due to hyperkalemia, due to acute renal failure. due to sepsis, due to bacterial pneumonia due to influenza...but thats me been techincal having done many death certs
An antecendent is something that contributed directly to what the actual cause of death was...so 5 things I mentioned above before cardiac arrest which was the COD.
When my example gets coded, it would be coded as an influenza death, because it was the antecedent that started teh chain of antecedents that lead to death
Is that right?
Multiple organ failure may not be though necessarily....it could be that they died from cardiac arrest, due to hyperkalemia, due to acute renal failure. due to sepsis, due to bacterial pneumonia due to influenza...but thats me been techincal having done many death certs
An antecendent is something that contributed directly to what the actual cause of death was...so 5 things I mentioned above before cardiac arrest which was the COD.
When my example gets coded, it would be coded as an influenza death, because it was the antecedent that started teh chain of antecedents that lead to death
Just to annoy everyone and cause confusion, this is not necessarily how a coroner would establish cause of death. They may discover that particular antecedent was not the cause of death. Although its rare that doctors get it wrong so it's not normally the case.
Read above.
If you're not happy with the "cause of death" you can always send the cadaver to a corner, whether that be a government coroner or you pay for it personally.
Kind of...I wouldnt have called the underlying factors "causes", just conditions that were part of the chain that lead to death from whatever they actually died from...
The thing that started the chain that lead to death will be coded as the cause, so influenza if it started it, covid if it started it etc...And yes, it is used for epidemiological purposes. Its how we know how many people died from what and what things were related.
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I guess I'll just leave this here.
There's a blog I've long frequented, which is set up to help combat anti-vaxx and other anti-scientific quackery.
The author apparently found this list on an anti-vax site, it's a list of 10 standard talking points that they and their faithful want to promote.
Note the extraordinary similarity of these antivax recommended talking points to all the arguments made by the "I've done my own research" and "I'm not antivax, just anti-mandate" posters.
"Vaccine death and injury is way higher than reported and is being covered up!"
"Doctors are being threatened or conspiring in the silence to downplay all the vaccine problems!"
"Vaccines drive and promote new variants!"
"Vaccines are weak and useless and proven do nothing to prevent or help you!"
"Covid's totally overblown you guys, it's only the elderly and obese and sick who are at any risk!"
"Something something 'Freedom' something something 'Open Your Eyes' something something....."
There's a blog I've long frequented, which is set up to help combat anti-vaxx and other anti-scientific quackery.
The author apparently found this list on an anti-vax site, it's a list of 10 standard talking points that they and their faithful want to promote.
Note the extraordinary similarity of these antivax recommended talking points to all the arguments made by the "I've done my own research" and "I'm not antivax, just anti-mandate" posters.
"Vaccine death and injury is way higher than reported and is being covered up!"
"Doctors are being threatened or conspiring in the silence to downplay all the vaccine problems!"
"Vaccines drive and promote new variants!"
"Vaccines are weak and useless and proven do nothing to prevent or help you!"
"Covid's totally overblown you guys, it's only the elderly and obese and sick who are at any risk!"
"Something something 'Freedom' something something 'Open Your Eyes' something something....."
Number 9 is my favourite
‘If we just ignore it then it will go away’
Excellent. Thanks for that. Just trying to get a simplified "Wikipedia" style explanation going for a good cut and paste post as I'm sure this will come up again in this circular covid discussion.
I'm sure there's a bit of confusion around the differences between death cert cause of death and those underlying factors (as they're referred to as causes when you look at many online resources), as well as death cert vs coded CODs.
Gee....if doctors would struggle with the reports, imagine how Mr. General Public must feel!
To answer you headache statement. I am not sure if you are aware, but any patient admitted with a headache bad enough to warrant admission would get a CT in ED and likely an MRI later if the headache persisted. If the headache was a CVA, doctors would pick that up fairly fast, even without imaging, because CVA's by definition have neurological signs.
If they died at home with a headache, a doctor would not do a death cert, simply because we dont know what they died from. They would have an autopsy ordered by the coroner because the COD would not be certain.
Simply: Cause of death on line 1. Thats what they died from. On subsequent lines below the cause of death, the antecedent conditions or diseases that lead to the COD on the first line. There is an area to list other conditions the person had that were related to the COD, but didnt cause it.
