Only one team undefeated now...

[The Dutchman!]

So long as AW doesn't start speculating that we'll be undefeated for the year I'm quite happy with this start - even if we've still got to play ManU, Newcastle, Cashski and Liverpool....

Great goal from Lauren today BTW... sheesh

How you like them apples Dipper? PRetty tasty?

 

[bulldog pommy]

quote Phil Neville

United defender Phil Neville blamed the pitch for his side's first league reverse in 2003.
He told Sky Sports: "The pitch was very dry, it slowed the ball down a lot.

Well pass the thing harder ****er. Accept defeat tosser. Even Fregie praised our effort. That says alot.

 

[The Dutchman!]

Top effort by the Saints today mate. I don't relish the trip to St Mary's with Beattie and Super Kev up against our creaky defence. Think we got away with it a bit today against Wright-Philips and the Sulk.

No Scholes for a while. The new Brazillian has a dislocated shoulder and Rio and Silveste are both a bit crooked. Time for Diego to stand tall!

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by bulldog pommy
United defender Phil Neville blamed the pitch for his side's first league reverse in 2003.
He told Sky Sports: "The pitch was very dry, it slowed the ball down a lot.

Had a chuckle at that. What is it about Southampton.....from grey shirts to dry pitches....6-3 tonkings....talk about our bogey side.

Well done to Southampton. It just proves...if you're willing to do the chasing and tackling, you've got a chance against United.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
No Scholes for a while.

Hernia operation. We're screwed.

The new Brazillian has a dislocated shoulder and Rio and Silveste are both a bit crooked. Time for Diego to stand tall!

It's a touch of deja vu from last season - injuries in the first half of the season before the full strength team brought home the Championship after New Years.

HOWEVER, I don't think Arsenal could be as complacent a second time around....could they?

 

[JuniorBurger]

I think you will find that there are 5 teams undefeated so far Arsenal, Portsmouth, Chelsea, Brum and (as much as it pains me) Scummers.
You probably meant only one team with a 100% record but I iwll take any chance to mention my team on here!

 

[The Dutchman!]

I stand corrected JB You must be stoked with the start Pompey have had. Full credit to Harry and the team.
Massive effort.

Shinner - difference between this year and last year - Becks was a proven ingredient. The new guys aren't. PLUS - Scholes is the most important player in your side (IM very HO). Agree though, its up to the Gunners to try and put some space between us now because later in the year the Reds will come home with a wet sail as ever.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
Shinner - difference between this year and last year - Becks was a proven ingredient.

Last season wasn't one of Beck's best. In the run in, it was Solksjaer who did the work on the right. Veron didn't matter either - his best work was in Europe.

The new guys aren't.

True.

Bellion is a long term project, so I don't expect much from him. I suspect that he might be at Old Trafford for a few years and then moved on. I really can't recall him doing much at Sunderland that would get anyone too excited.

Howard looks like he has the mortgage on the 'keepers spot, so he's fine (as long as he doesn't to a Taibi 2 or something like that).

Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson are both defensive midfielders, and with their role, I think they should settle in more quickly than a forward midfielder - how hard is it to hack down....er.....put in those meaty tackles anyway? However, it won't be the instant gratification that we got when Ince joined Robson in the midfield or when Keane joined Ince in there....both Ince and Keane had tasted English football when they joined us. Djemba-Djemba should settle into a good on-field rhythm by Christmas, Kleberson perhaps by early next year if he gets a decent run (after all, we can't play all of them at once, can we?).

Ronaldo - he's a long term prospect. We can't rely on him for our Championship and Champions League chances. Cameo performances from the bench will be his calling this season.

I think the squad is a more solid one than last season, perhaps a bit less creative than in the past though. It'll help when we get our defenders back. I expect a similar race to last season - the only thing is that if Arsenal do build up a big lead, I don't expect them to fall apart like they did last season.

PLUS - Scholes is the most important player in your side (IM very HO).

Totally agree. Scholes was the on-field architect of our comeback. His link work between midfield and the forwards was the key - he also scored about a dozen goals.

Agree though, its up to the Gunners to try and put some space between us now because later in the year the Reds will come home with a wet sail as ever.

 

[moomba]

United without Scholes are a different team, and I still maintain that Scholes has been more important to United's success (on the football field if not the merchandise sector) than Beckham.

I still get a feeling that Fergie is just foxing a little bit to get Scholes out of the internionals this week. He is saying that Scholes will be out for a month, but he will wait for a week to see if things settle down. Mmmmmmm.

Scholes was also photographed in the city centre yesterday carrying his two kids, I'm no doctor but it doesn't seem to be something that you would do with a supposed hernia op on the horizon.

More than happy to be wrong on this but it wouldn't surprise to see Scholes line up against Charlton.

Moomba

 

[Dipper]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
So long as AW doesn't start speculating that we'll be undefeated for the year I'm quite happy with this start - even if we've still got to play ManU, Newcastle, Cashski and Liverpool....

Great goal from Lauren today BTW... sheesh

How you like them apples Dipper? PRetty tasty?

Them apples sure are nice & rosy red & ever so sweet.

Although last season is still like a huge gaping wound that prohibits me from counting my chickens (or should that be chooks on here) before they're not only hatched but laying eggs of their own.


To me the big big plus is Kolo Toure so far, I'm still holding my breath where he's concerned but really if he makes the grade the way he has so far it's like getting a big signing for free.


The cherry on top of the cake would be for this to continue & then for Pennant to come home after his 2 month loan spell & give the whole place an even furthur lift.(am I dreaming)

Anyway the next month or so is huge, I'm not a great studier of the fixture list but I believe that we are down to play more of the other big teams than any of the rest of them, so we could possibly put some space between us & them.


An interesting thing about AW's reign at Arsenal is that because he does the training on such a scientific basis is that there are strong trends in how our season develops, normally we're sharply out of the blocks & then we usually have a horrendous spell in October/November & then we nearly always finish really strongly after Xmas.

Last season being the exception where our post Xmas form was bad, but it will be interesting to see if we have our normal blip in Oct/Nov-I can barely remember a year when we didn't-even when we did the double 2 years ago we got thumped 4-2 at home to Charlton so I'm interested to see how it pans out.


I'm also interested in Bergy being on the bench & Wiltord starting up front, Wiltord said that he doesn't want to play on the right anymore & that he'll leave if that's the case, he hasn't signed a new contract & is heading for a Bosman free at the end of the season, so is Wenger playing him up front because he always planned to due to Bergy's age or is he trying to keep Wiltord sweet till he signs new deal?

 

[The Dutchman!]

Re: Re: Only one team undefeated now...

Originally posted by DIPPER
Them apples sure are nice & rosy red & ever so sweet.

Can almost see the twickle in your eye mate!

Originally posted by DIPPER
Although last season is still like a huge gaping wound that prohibits me from counting my chickens (or should that be chooks on here) before they're not only hatched but laying eggs of their own.

Agreed. Couldn't believe AW quoted on the back for the Metro today with the 'ready to take back crown' quote. Shut the hell up Wenger. No ammunition. Christ!

Originally posted by DIPPER
To me the big big plus is Kolo Toure so far, I'm still holding my breath where he's concerned but really if he makes the grade the way he has so far it's like getting a big signing for free.


Finger's crossed on this one - not much cover available. Frankly not enough cover.

Originally posted by DIPPER for Pennant to come home after his 2 month loan spell & give the whole place an even furthur lift.(am I dreaming)

Fantasy mate (unfortunately he's not from Lyon or Senegal)

Originally posted by DIPPER
I'm also interested in Bergy being on the bench & Wiltord starting up front, Wiltord said that he doesn't want to play on the right anymore & that he'll leave if that's the case, he hasn't signed a new contract & is heading for a Bosman free at the end of the season, so is Wenger playing him up front because he always planned to due to Bergy's age or is he trying to keep Wiltord sweet till he signs new deal?

Not overly worried by Wiltord. He'd be insane to leave - would never get the benefit of the sort of assists he gets from HEnry anywhere else - 'cept maybe Real.

I'm a bit worried that Freddy, Pires, Campbell and Definitely Berkhamp, Keown & Parlour are all a year older and AW's not blooding youngsters. Still loans (JEffers and Pennant) are better than nothing... some experience...

 

[The Dutchman!]

Shinner

I know I say this every year - but I reckon you have a weaker squad than last year with significantly less depth. Then again, I think we do too.

Scholes out will really hurt you - far more than Campbell out for us - but if you added Henry or Viera to that list - well we don't have the cover at the moment IMHO.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by moomba
United without Scholes are a different team, and I still maintain that Scholes has been more important to United's success (on the football field if not the merchandise sector) than Beckham.

True if you only look at the last season or two, but prior to that, Scholes probably only just shaded Beckham in overall contribution to the club's success.

In respect to the outfield players, it was Cantona, and then Keane who ran the show. With Keane getting closer to retirement, it seems to me that Scholes is the one that's stepping up.

I still get a feeling that Fergie is just foxing a little bit to get Scholes out of the internionals this week. He is saying that Scholes will be out for a month, but he will wait for a week to see if things settle down. Mmmmmmm.

Agreed.

I suspect that if United were playing Arsenal instead of Southampton, Scholes would have been on the pitch.

More than happy to be wrong on this but it wouldn't surprise to see Scholes line up against Charlton.

I reckon Fergie might play him off the bench and keep him fresh for the game against Arsenal. After that, he'll be off for the hernia operation as United play Leicester, Birmingham, Leeds, Fulham, and Portsmouth....with luck, Scholes will be back for the game against Liverpool in early November.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
Scholes out will really hurt you - far more than Campbell out for us - but if you added Henry or Viera to that list - well we don't have the cover at the moment IMHO.

I said it last season about how United lacked a Cantona/Sheringham type of player who could unlock defences. I remember DIPPER suggested Scholes was the player that could do it, but my issue was that Fergie couldn't fit him into his formation. Now Fergie has found the spot for Scholes and he's done the creative work wonderfully well.

But you're right - no Scholes and our creativity goes out the window.

 

[Dipper]

Re: Re: Re: Only one team undefeated now...

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
Still loans (JEffers and Pennant) are better than nothing... some experience...

Mmmmm well I hope Pennat has gone for the experience (can't help but doubt it) but there's no way that Jeffers has gone for experience.

It's sign of how hard up we are that we're having to get people off the wage bill, apparently they've paid us £750k for the season's loan plus all his wages, usually when big clubs loan out players they pay a chunk of the wages but we're not doing this at all.

Obviosly strecthing the budget to resign PV & RP has meant that economies have to be made elsewhere.

I'm sure if somebody had made a decent bid for Jeffers then he'd have gone.

I doubt we'll ever see him play for Arsenal again.

On what you said about lac of cover for TH & PV apparently our squad is 31 players of who 4 are keepers, 6 are on loan & 5 have never made a fist team appearance(so going by past experience they're not going to be blooded lightly).

So we're defiitely a bit light.

But the good news is the or that the scouts are doing in bringing in young players, don't now if you read the Standard yesterday but the young Yank we've just brought in sounds a great talent & at 19 he might challenge for a place even this season, he's training with the first team squad & hasn't looked out of place.

Plus we've signed a young Czech player with a Greek name.

And quite excitingly we've nicked the star of the Barcelona youth side, Fabresc Fabregat 16, & put him on a 6 year deal, apparently they're fuming which is always a good sign.
The only reason I'm not getting to carried away with that one is that about 4 years ago we signed the then 'star' of the Barca youth team Nano & I haven't heard a word about him since so hopefully the 2003 version will do a bit better.

But I think it's a sign of how things are for us now, we can't compete in the transfer market so we have to spot & then nurture young talent, nothing wrong with that as long as they actually get a go before they're too old.I don't expect them to dislplace people like Henry but there's no excuse to play people liek Cygan/Luhzny ect ahead of genuinely talented youngsters.

 

[windyhill]

Re: Re: Re: Only one team undefeated now...

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
Not overly worried by Wiltord. He'd be insane to leave - would never get the benefit of the sort of assists he gets from HEnry anywhere else - 'cept maybe Real.

I think you are disregarding the huge amounts of work Wiltord does for the team. He has also put a few on a plate for Henry. Probably the most under rated player at Highbury.

 

[The Dutchman!]

Underrated for a reason Windy. He's the equivalent of a AFL March champion - loads of early season goals - goes missing in the pre-Xmas annual slump that dip was talking about. No dud of course but of the big re-signings - he's the one who's replacable.

Dip - yep saw the Standard on the yank - Danny Unprononcable. Supposed to be very impressive in training...

 

[windyhill]

He got France home in the last Euro championships, he got Arsenal home in the backyard of the previous holders. He carried Arsenal when all the injuries hit two campaigns ago. He is too easily forgotten about/discarded, he has started this season like a bomb, would hate to see the boy leave on a free.

 

[Dipper]

It's funny reading your contrasting views on Wiltord as exactly the same thing is going on on the Teamtalk Arsenal your say board with lot of people coming out on both sides.

The thing with Wiltord is that firstly he's still our record signing & I can't believe that there are any Arsenal supporters who weren't disappointed at his skill levels when they first saw him in relation to the price we paid.

I don't mind him as a squad player, back up to Henry & the right wing & a some time replacement for Bergy when he's missing but I've never been too keen on him as a starter.

Last season he started like a train scoring about 5 league goals very quickly & I was willing to think he's turned the corner that's why I can't go overboard by his start this term.

Where I find it hard to be too generous where he's concerned is his off field attitude, the little quotes that he puts out letting everyone know that he's not happy about something or other.

It has to be remembered that he went on strike at Bordeaux to get his move to Arsenal (which is interesting that Wenger bought him after he refused to buy the De Boer twins when they did the same thing at Barca when we were after them), he's made comments that he should be Henry's strike partner, which to me is disrespectful to Dennis (who's 10 times the player that Wiltord is) & now that he knows he's into the last year of his contract he's playing hardball with the club firstly he's hanging out for a pay deal that's far more than his performances warrant, but that's fair enough that's what footballers do, but what isn't right is to hold the gun to Wenger's head about refusing to play on the right wing anymore, it seems weak to me that once he's said that he's now getting his wish of partnering Henry.Even if Wenger had planned to play him there in some ways he shouldn't just to send out the message that players can't dictate to him (which is what it looks like, & I 'm sure Dennis isn't too happy with it).

What Wiltord doesn't seem to realise is that as a a striker it would be bloody hard for him to make the French side ahead of Henry & Trezegat as well as all the other strong contenders but by playing wide right for Arsneal & being allowed to come in & score a few goals he's managed to play a similar role for France.

Really he should be grateful, but he doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who thinks much about gratitude.


Just seeing Pennant provide more quality on the right wing in one game against Southampton last season than Wiltord managed all season made me realise that I'm more than happy to let him go as long as Pennant comes back.