News Orazio Fantasia departs for Carlton

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RangaInTeal said:
End of the day we gave up pick 29, who of Poulter, McMahon, Neale, Rosman, Downie, Lazzaro or Durdin would add what Fantasia has this year, or next year? Everyone whinges that Farrell isn’t up to scratch, Woodcock and Fredrick are not ‘AFL’ footballers. Without Fantasia these blokes are much closer to being best 22.

I was not happy to trade for him, wanted him as a FA or not at all. However after him getting here I am absolutely over the Moon with everything he has provided our club.
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The thing we're all forgetting, is that the bid on Lachie Jones would have eaten that pick up. So in the end it matters even less what we paid, we essentially gave up more for Watts. Who did less in three years than Orazio has in half a year.
 
Hang on, expressing concerns about longevity is now bed wetting?

The very clear evidence is that as of right now Fantasia struggles to stay healthy at AFL level. That's just a fact.

We won't know if we benefitted from the trade for a another couple of years, but as of right now, it's perfectly reasonable to question his sustainability. This was always the concern, not that he didn't have talent or couldn't be awesome if fit
 
The reality is, over the last 3 years he has missed more games through injury than he has played and now this year starting to look as though it might go the same way with his current recovery.

Discussing that is far from “bed wetting” it’s a clear long term trend.

Hopefully he can put that behind him and be back fit for finals because, accuracy aside, he was arguably the form small forward in comp in the first half of the year. Had he kicked straight (rather than 50/50) he’d of probably been a walk up start in a mid year AA team.
 

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morell said:
Hang on, expressing concerns about longevity is now bed wetting?

The very clear evidence is that as of right now Fantasia struggles to stay healthy at AFL level. That's just a fact.

We won't know if we benefitted from the trade for a another couple of years, but as of right now, it's perfectly reasonable to question his sustainability. This was always the concern, not that he didn't have talent or couldn't be awesome if fit
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No, calling the trade a Fail, 6 months in is though!
 
I was going to post that Orazio is the 2-3 weeks man but now it looks like he is the 3-4 weeks man. His recovery time gets longer each time I look at the official injury list. I guess it is better than having season or TBC next to your name.

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Let us hope we get through tonight's game without another ******* injury.
 
JakeNeadeFan said:
It's perfectly acceptable to make a mid term judgment and say that at this point in time it is a fail. It might not be a fail in the future, but given the trend of his injuries the long term projection is not exactly bright.
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At this point in time, recruiting Lachie Jones is a huge fail. Thankfully we're expecting to have Lachie for the next decade, so stating that recruiting him was a fail is a completely pointless statement.
 
Schulzenfest said:
At this point in time, recruiting Lachie Jones is a huge fail. Thankfully we're expecting to have Lachie for the next decade, so stating that recruiting him was a fail is a completely pointless statement.
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This is just a ridiculous statement. The standards and expectations for a first year player are much different than the standards and expectations for a 7(?) year player who you recruit from another club. Lachie Jones isn't a fail at this point. He's played a handful of games which is around the expected value for a first year player. His performance in those games has been OK.

The expectation from most people from Fantasia was that he would play more than the games he has played so far (and will play for the remainder of the season). And as I keep saying, it isnt just this season in isolation, it is the trend of him succombing to long term injuries year on year that prevent him from building any consistency.

Stop bringing up completely irrelevant players for comparison. If you want a comparable player then Jack Watts is a good one.
 
JakeNeadeFan said:
By mid term I mean before the end of his contract/tenure at the club, not referring to his age.
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But this isn't a mid term view. He is at round 16 of his first year of a 4 year deal. If by the end of 2022 if he has missed more games than he has played then sure, you can judge it from a mid term point then. But as it stands he has played 10/15 games this year and he didn't break down with a soft tissue injury like he had been plagued with at Essendon. It was loose knee cartilage, which if left untreated would have caused significant damage to the knee.
 

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JakeNeadeFan said:
It's perfectly acceptable to make a mid term judgment and say that at this point in time it is a fail. It might not be a fail in the future, but given the trend of his injuries the long term projection is not exactly bright.
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He's a match winner. If he comes good by Round 21, plays a few games, and wins us a flag - I don't care if he doesn't play again.

It was a calculated gamble that could still come off, but he's already shown us what he can do when fit. We're a much better team with him in it.
 
JakeNeadeFan said:
This is just a ridiculous statement. The standards and expectations for a first year player are much different than the standards and expectations for a 7(?) year player who you recruit from another club. Lachie Jones isn't a fail at this point. He's played a handful of games which is around the expected value for a first year player. His performance in those games has been OK.
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You expected Lachie Jones to miss two months with two separate hamstring injuries?

Of course it's a ridiculous statement. That's the point. Calling somebody a fail for missing two months of a four year contract with injury is a ridiculous statement.
 
Schulzenfest said:
You expected Lachie Jones to miss two months with two separate hamstring injuries?

Of course it's a ridiculous statement. That's the point. Calling somebody a fail for missing two months of a four year contract with injury is a ridiculous statement.
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Why do you keep ignoring his history like its nothing? You have to take that into consideration because it was already being talked about when we picked him up. Weren't you the one telling everyone not to worry because he only got injured constantly because he didn't like being at Essendon? Now he's cut down exactly as some people predicted and you're throwing names like Butters and Jones out there as a ridiculous comparison to cover your tracks when neither of them have a chronic history of injuries and they basically can't have because of their age.
 
Schulzenfest said:
You expected Lachie Jones to miss two months with two separate hamstring injuries?

Of course it's a ridiculous statement. That's the point. Calling somebody a fail for missing two months of a four year contract with injury is a ridiculous statement.
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I didn't expect him to play many games. He's played 6, that is a respectable total and I'd give him a pass mark so far.

Fantasia on the other hand looks like he will miss a large portion of the season with an injury, as he has for the previous 4 years. That for me is a fail so far.

Is it valid to judge player after this period of time? For me it depends on the player, and given Fantasia has come as a mature recruit with a clear trend of injury which has continued, I think it is fair to evaluate his contribution at this point in time. You may disagree, so be it.
 
malcheski said:
But this isn't a mid term view. He is at round 16 of his first year of a 4 year deal. If by the end of 2022 if he has missed more games than he has played then sure, you can judge it from a mid term point then. But as it stands he has played 10/15 games this year and he didn't break down with a soft tissue injury like he had been plagued with at Essendon. It was loose knee cartilage, which if left untreated would have caused significant damage to the knee.
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No, he broke down with a flexible, connective tissue injury just for something different. His nickname could be the glassman except he is yet to break bones. Perhaps the vulcanised rubber man might be a better one.

If he played in a grand final the chances are just as likely that he would get injured early in the game as opposed to winning us the game.

Schulzenfest said:
Walk-up start to our best 22. Anybody writing it off as a bad trade because he's missed about a month of his four year contract with injury is just trying to defend the bad calls that they made in the offseason.
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Schulzenfest said:
Calling somebody a fail for missing two months of a four year contract with injury is a ridiculous statement.
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First one month, then two. It would tragic but darkly amusing if by the end of the season Schultenfest had extended missing three months of a four year contract as a ridiculous statement. How far is he willing to stretch it as a ridiculous statement? As far as one of Orazio's hamstrings? Hopefully when clubs look at recruiting a player, they look at a players injury history rather than what would happen if they gave them a four year contract.

If the Crows had traded him we would be calling them idiots for giving a four year contract to a player who can't stay on the park for an average of much more than half a season.

Some players become more resilient as they get older and I do hope he is one of those. There is no doubting his gifts and ability, and he is an excellent fit for our current squad. One has to wonder though whether he may just be delaying or preventing a Williams, Jones or Bergman etc from being a just as effective small/medium forward in the future. That is pure speculation of course.
 
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Powerage said:
...... One has to wonder though whether he may just be delaying or preventing a Williams, Jones or Bergman etc from being a just as effective small/medium forward in the future. That is pure speculation of course.
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We don't have to wonder/speculate though as he currently isn't preventing any of those players from playing the small/medium forward.
 
JakeNeadeFan said:
Fantasia on the other hand looks like he will miss a large portion of the season with an injury, as he has for the previous 4 years. That for me is a fail so far.
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How many games do you think pick 29 would've played for us this year?
 
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