Patriotism

[Pedro]

I am not one who normally makes a big deal out of the "Aussie Spirit" blah blah that we hear get sprouted all the time. I cringe every time I hear "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi,oi,oi". To those that call for our national anthem to be changed to Waltzing Matilda, I say get real, you have got to be joking. It just doesn't mean anything to me.

Today is Anzac day however. I remember Anzac day as a kid and recall looking at my dad watching the marches on telly and wondering why on earth he was in tears. He never went to war. His father did, but he came home in one piece so what was the big deal?

As I grew older however, it dawned on me the significance of this special day. We can all thank those Australians who served in all the wars for our current way of life. I try to imagine the magnitute of what those diggers went through to fight for our freedom but I just don't think I can do it justice.

How haunting is The Last Post? I will hear it today and no doubt shed more than one tear as I ponder what those diggers achieved and remember those who paid the ultimate sacrifice in defence of our country.

I hope you all have a good day. To the tosser who will no doubt yell out "Go Pies" or "Go Bombers" during the minutes silence, may you contract some deadly disease and die a slow horrible death.

 

[Dr.Grouse]

Originally posted by Pedro

I hope you all have a good day. To the tosser who will no doubt yell out "Go Pies" or "Go Bombers" during the minutes silence, may you contract some deadly disease and die a slow horrible death.

I'd be a bit more worried about a plane flying into the Great Southern Stand and 70,000 people dying a quick horrible death.

Don't worry, Pedro ... as long as this country has got leaders like John Howard we'll have plenty of reason to mourn our war dead well into the 21st century. So you'll have lots more ANZAC Days to get all patriotic about.

I'm tipping we'll be in for the Mother of all vomit-fests this afternoon. If the A.F.L. uses this occasion to promote its usual right-wing jingoism I might be tempted to yell something out during the minute's silence myself ... and it won't be anything as innocuous as "Go Pies" either, I'll give you the STRONG tip.

 

[Mooster7]

This day of days again we keep
in memory of those who sleep
Away beyond the quiet sea...
Away in far Gallipolli.



88 years of Australia & New Zealand consistently putting forth some of the greatest infantry in the world. Impressive.

Gallipolli aside, the greatest feats IMO occurred in North Africa in WWII. Dismounted infantry is almost worthless in the desert vs a mechanized opponent. Yet the Aussies, time and time again gave hell to German armored formations. Most amazing was the defense Australians put up for Tobruk and spoiled Rommel's first attempt to take it.

Not that Aussies don't make good tankers also. What do you think of your Army adopting the German Leopard MBT instead of the Brit Chally 2? I've been in some debates over that, and would be interested in the Bigfooty opinion.

Anyway, a most happy ANZAC Day to all of you.

Peace,

 

[myee8]

Looks like the Aussie spirit at work against Rommel's boys there Mooster. Rommel wasn't exactly a hack either, he wasn't nicknamed the 'Desert Fox' for no reason.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Originally posted by Mooster7

Gallipolli aside, the greatest feats IMO occurred in North Africa in WWII. Dismounted infantry is almost worthless in the desert vs a mechanized opponent. Yet the Aussies, time and time again gave hell to German armored formations. Most amazing was the defense Australians put up for Tobruk and spoiled Rommel's first attempt to take it.

I have always thought that the light horse at Beersheeba was our greatest military moment. I am pretty uninformed about these things though.


As for ANZAC day I am of the opinion that the old fellas that went away to fight are entitled to their day together. They are also entitled to a bit of respect and that entails leaving them alone on their big day.
I am as anti-war as anyone and will gladly give you a long list of reasons why we shouldnt be in Iraq but there is a time and a place for everything and the dawn service is not the place or time for protesting about anything.

 

[FreoDocker]

Originally posted by Pedro
I am not one who normally makes a big deal out of the "Aussie Spirit" blah blah that we hear get sprouted all the time. I cringe every time I hear "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oi,oi,oi". To those that call for our national anthem to be changed to Waltzing Matilda, I say get real, you have got to be joking. It just doesn't mean anything to me.

Today is Anzac day however. I remember Anzac day as a kid and recall looking at my dad watching the marches on telly and wondering why on earth he was in tears. He never went to war. His father did, but he came home in one piece so what was the big deal?

As I grew older however, it dawned on me the significance of this special day. We can all thank those Australians who served in all the wars for our current way of life. I try to imagine the magnitute of what those diggers went through to fight for our freedom but I just don't think I can do it justice.

How haunting is The Last Post? I will hear it today and no doubt shed more than one tear as I ponder what those diggers achieved and remember those who paid the ultimate sacrifice in defence of our country.

I hope you all have a good day. To the tosser who will no doubt yell out "Go Pies" or "Go Bombers" during the minutes silence, may you contract some deadly disease and die a slow horrible death.

Great call.

When I was younger, I knew the basic meaning of ANZAC day and used to march with my great granddads medals, but never really considered the real significance of the past.

My great grandad was one of the ANZACS who landed at Gallipoli and stormed the beach. He had a lot of mates killed that day, and I think the events of the day were never really explained to my Father and Grandfather even after he came back from the war. I guess the scenes that he viewed there were just too shocking to be able to explain to others even decades after the war.

As he was storming up the beach he was shot once in the rising sun on his shoulder, where the bullet lodged in the metal. Further up the beach as they were making their push towards the Turk lines he was shot in the thigh and managed to pull himself to cover. Ofcourse he made it back when so many others didn't and started a family, always reminded of the war from the mates he lost and his permanent limp in his right leg.

I guess on ANZAC day, as well as remembering what these servicemen did for your country and the freedoms you enjoy, you also consider the personal significance of the events that took place. "What if the bullets had been inches to either side of where they were, I wouldn't exist at all". I guess this type of thinking is purely hypothetical, but for each of those servicemen that didn't come back, I also think about the subsequent generations that never had a chance to exist.

I think a minute silence on ANZAC day and the dawn services are a small price to pay for our freedoms, our national pride and our remembrance of those gave their lives and sacrificed their futures.

 

[Dr.Grouse]

Originally posted by localyokel
...
I am as anti-war as anyone and will gladly give you a long list of reasons why we shouldnt be in Iraq but there is a time and a place for everything and the dawn service is not the place or time for protesting about anything ...

I would agree with you there.

I would also point out that the football is not the time or the place to be subjected to the orgy of militaristic self-eroticism that we were subjected to prior to the match yesterday.

And I would point out that I'm NOT referring to the minute's silence or the Last Post ... or even the parade of war veterans around the ground.

I'm referring to the highly POLITICAL idea of having planes flying over in formation ... and having a team of rambos delivering the match ball in a navy helicopter ... This was just a classic example of bad taste that went way beyond solemn remembrance. This was a situation in which the right-wing AFL, in these highly charged jingoistic times, allowed the military to flex their muscles in front of a captive audience of admiring plebs.

The planes, in particular, were an apalling idea. Their first appearance was unannounced. I didn't see them coming. I just suddenly heard the roar of their engines, and for a split second I thought we were under attack.

There was always a very real possibility that the ANZAC Day footy match could have been a target for a terrorist attack, thanks to John Howard's lickspittle support for the George Bush invasion of Iraq. So allowing the frightening sound of these highly powered aircraft to assault our ears UNANNOUNCED ... was the height of insensitivity and outright stupidity.

This was GLORIFICATION OF WAR. There is no other way of seeing it.

I fail to see how any of this macho sabre-rattling is appropriate to any notion of respect for those who have died or risked their lives in the tragic circumstances of war.

To me, it seems to be the height of hypocrisy to have 70,000 people bowing their heads in silence just a few minutes after they've been cheering a team of trained killers playing war games in our airspace.

LEST WE FORGET ... for if we FORGET ... we are doomed to REPEAT (that's how I interpret it, anyway).

So, by all means acknowledge the tragedy and the loss. And there is nothing wrong with old mates getting together ... but, for Christ's sake ... and for all our sakes ... put the war toys away. They are the LAST thing we need to see on ANZAC Day.

 

[Katthawk]

Alf I find your words somewhat dramatic - if only for the sense that it felt as though you were under attack.

That is somewhat political and obviously so.

However, I do agree with you about keeping the 'war toys' out of it. It is hypocritical to see a football game as a measure of peace and yet promote war by showing off the paraphanalia.



just don't bring up any rude pictures to insult me.... I actually agree with you for once.

 

[Docker_Brat]

It's a grand old flag
It's the high flying flag
It's the emblem for me and for you...

 

[Dr.Grouse]

Originally posted by Docker_Brat
It's a grand old flag
It's the high flying rag
It's the emblem for me and for you...

OK.

Now tell us ... is that Sturt version, the Norwood version or the Melbourne version?

I guess I shouldn't really have to ask.

 

[Katthawk]

*s*******

Some people just can't deny their roots... oh it's old but worthwhile repeating every now and again... just to see what happens. DB you asked for it.

 

[Dr.Grouse]

Originally posted by Katthawk
Alf I find your words somewhat dramatic - if only for the sense that it felt as though you were under attack.

That is somewhat political and obviously so.

However, I do agree with you about keeping the 'war toys' out of it. It is hypocritical to see a football game as a measure of peace and yet promote war by showing off the paraphanalia.



just don't bring up any rude pictures to insult me.... I actually agree with you for once.

Well, maybe a shade dramatic.

But it is true that ever since September 11, 2001 I get a bit freaked out whenever I hear a plane fly over. And to hear fast loud low-flying aircraft when I wasn't expecting it did cause me a brief moment of extreme anxiety.

There was another moment when the planes appeared to be flying directly towards the area where I was sitting before all branching off in separate directions. Although, in my head, I knew it was just a military exercise I couldn't help feeling a very real sense of fear.

There is also the ever-present possiblility that something might go wrong in a display like that. Most of the allied deaths in Iraq were caused by operational mistakes, so who's to say the Battle of Jolimont might not also produce some collateral damage.

I'm afraid your reference to "rude pictures" has got me completely baffled.

Should I know what you're talking about?

 

[Katthawk]

Darn it... he had me going there... good one Dr. Grouse.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Originally posted by Dr.Grouse
I would agree with you there.

I would also point out that the football is not the time or the place to be subjected to the orgy of militaristic self-eroticism that we were subjected to prior to the match yesterday.

And I would point out that I'm NOT referring to the minute's silence or the Last Post ... or even the parade of war veterans around the ground.



LEST WE FORGET ... for if we FORGET ... we are doomed to REPEAT (that's how I interpret it, anyway).

I am safely domiciled in Tassie for a week so I managed to miss out on the footy yesterday and was happily riding the Don railway during the pre match. It sounds like a particularly insensitive idea to have war planes flying over without any warning about whether they are 'friendlies' or not especially on ANZAC day.




Thats how I would interpret 'Lest we forget' as well.