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Jim Chalmers rips up Paul Keating’s economic playbook​

The treasurer is publicly breaking from Labor’s previously claimed belief in the great Bob Hawke-Paul Keating market-based economic model that helped deliver 30 years of national prosperity.

John KehoeEconomics editor
May 13, 2024 – 5.00am





Jim Chalmers is ripping up the economic textbook. The Labor treasurer is embracing a bigger role for government to direct capital and allocate resources in Tuesday’s federal budget.
Budget spending will inevitably climb higher and tax levels are sure to follow.
Chalmers is, once and for all, publicly breaking from Labor’s previously claimed belief in the great Bob Hawke-Paul Keating, market-based economic model that helped deliver 30 years of national prosperity.
Modern Labor, including Chalmers, never really believed in Keating’s deregulation, reforming and lowering taxes and restraining the size of government.
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Paul Keating (left) with Jim Chalmers in August 2022. Jeremy Piper
Chalmers, who paradoxically wrote a PhD on Keating, is now revealing his true colours.
The 46-year-old treasurer thinks he’s developed a new and better economic growth model.
More confident after two years as treasurer, Chalmers is embracing a more interventionist role for government in the net-zero energy transition and seeking to prop up industries by picking winners with taxpayer subsidies.
He is no longer concealing modern Labor’s deep suspicion of orthodox economics, in contrast to before the 2022 election when Anthony Albanese and Chalmers promoted the charade of their economic similarities to the Hawke- Keating government.
David Pearl, a former Treasury assistant secretary who was also an adviser to former Labor leader Kevin Rudd, says: “The so-called new economic orthodoxy is not new and nor is it economics. It’s mercantilism, the belief that betting taxpayer money on firms that can’t cut it on the market will somehow come up trumps.

“No credible economist or economic institution, including my old department Treasury, believes this, but naive politicians have fallen for it again under the guise of net-zero industry policy.”
Chalmers insists the business centrepiece of Tuesday’s budget, a Future Made in Australia, is not a “repudiation” of the past economic models.
Instead, he says, it recognises that the world has changed and the past “is not necessarily the right economic orthodoxy for the big turning points”.
“I genuinely believe in some of those people who I greatly admire from the 80s and 90s ... the vast achievements of those incredible performing governments under Bob and Paul,” Chalmers says in response to The Australian Financial Review asking about mainstream economists criticising the government’s ditching of conventional economics.
“But we have to recognise that the world moves on, and we need to move with it. Because if we get stuck in the past, this country will be poorer. It will be more vulnerable.”
The world is changing, as it always is, but the old rules of economics still apply.

Keating the exception for Labor​

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Former Prime Minister Bob Hawke, left, and the then Treasurer Paul Keating. Fairfax
Labor’s shift to the left on economics has been a quarter of a century in the making.
Keating was the exception for Labor, not the rule. Economic rationalists are rarely sighted in modern Labor. Economic “rationalist” is now a term of derision inside the party. But what’s the alternative? Economically “irrational”?

Chalmers’ old bosses, Kim Beazley and Wayne Swan, buried Keating’s approach to economics after his election loss to John Howard in 1996.
Albanese, Chalmers and Industry Minister Ed Husic will sit around the cabinet table choosing what green energy, manufacturing and technology projects are worthy of government backing – under the guise of the energy transition, supply chain resilience, national security and sovereignty.
Chalmers insists the budget will put a premium on “responsibility and restraint”.
The evidence is conflicting.
The government has gambled almost $1,000,000,000 ($1 billion) on a single quantum computing company, PsiQuantum, without a transparent process about exactly what the government has signed on to.
Breathtakingly, Labor has slated a further $1 billion for domestic solar panel manufacturing.
The current head of the Productivity Commission, Danielle Wood, and four previous heads of the commission all agree Australia has no hope of being competitive making solar panels. Labor’s spending will risk taxpayer money and drain labour and capital away from more productive uses.
It’s a recipe for weaker productivity, higher inflation and lower real incomes.
Albanese dismissed one of his critics, Gary Banks, as a “flat earther”.
Yet even progressive economist John Quiggin, and Hawke’s former economic adviser, Rod Sims, have voiced concerns about the risks of a Future Made In Australia.

Chalmers, to his credit, has been more respectful than Albanese and has deliberately avoided personal fights with his critics.
Perhaps he has learned a valuable lesson from voters rejecting Labor’s “top end of town” rhetoric in the 2019 election, which he and leader Bill Shorten embraced with gusto.
Nonetheless, the Albanese government’s actions demonstrate Labor’s lack of regard for orthodox economics and mainstream economists.
Modern Labor has become more interventionist and redistributionist.
In past decades, strong treasurers and an economically rational Treasury would have blocked the Future Made in Australia agenda, price caps on gas, and re-regulation of the labour market that takes the rigidities of the workplace system back to the pre-Keating era.
Today, there is little evidence of much internal resistance to Labor’s economic adventurism.
There are no economists on Labor’s expenditure review committee and virtually none have serious business experience.
Albanese has an economics degree, but was a member of the University of Sydney’s anti-orthodox political economy faction.

Wasted economic talent​

Four of Labor’s most qualified economic figures are languishing on the backbench, or on the fringes of the frontbench.

Andrew Charlton, a former adviser to Kevin Rudd, has an economics PhD from the University of Oxford, was a manager at Wesfarmers, and founded economic consultancy AlphaBeta, which he sold to Accenture.
Daniel Mulino has an economics PhD from the US Ivy League institution, Yale University. Previously a Victorian state MP, Mulino was a junior state treasury minister before switching to federal politics. Mulino has a written a serious book, Safety Net: The Future of Welfare in Australia, that argues that applying an insurance mindset to the social welfare safety net would deliver participants better outcomes and more value for taxpayers.
Canberra-based Labor MP Alicia Payne has an economics degree and worked for a decade at federal Treasury and the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling.
Another Labor MP from Canberra, Andrew Leigh, is an economist with a PhD from the prestigious Harvard University. Leigh is Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury. He is below Chalmers and Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones in the Treasury pecking order.
Chalmers has political and practical experience in economic policy. He worked as a media and political adviser to treasurer Swan for five years until 2013, working closely with the Treasury led by the respected Ken Henry. One long-time Canberra observer says: “I don’t care that Jim doesn’t have an economics degree, but he doesn’t show much respect for the discipline.”

Essay revealed Chalmers thinking​

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Treasurer Jim Chalmers will unveil the full detail of the government’s third budget on Tuesday night. Alex Ellinghausen
Chalmers began articulating his views in a 6000-word essay for The Monthly, entitled Capitalism after the Crises, in January last year.
He unveiled a grand vision to revamp the nation’s long-standing market-based economic model, attacking “neoliberalism” and urging business to co-invest with government to deliver “values-based capitalism”.
Embracing left-wing Italian economist Mariana Mazzucato, Chalmers said markets were a positive and powerful tool, but had been poorly designed.

He criticised the “negative form of supply-side economics” prescribed by traditional economic institutions, including the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.
The philosophical assessment came just weeks after the Albanese government’s intervention in the gas market to cap wholesale prices and the extension of multi-employer bargaining in workplaces.
The government would “build a better capitalism” more aligned with Australian values and building more resilience against economic and geopolitical shocks, he wrote.
Chalmers is seeking business, investor and superannuation fund support to work more closely with the government on areas beyond clean energy and housing, to include the “social purpose” areas of aged care, education and disability.
“We will employ this co-investment model in more areas of the economy,” Chalmers noted.
“The private sector is key and central to sustainable growth, and there’s a genuine appetite among so many forward-looking businesspeople and investors for something more aligned with their values, and our national goals.”
It’s a very different approach to Keating, who freed up capital markets by floating the dollar, removing foreign exchange controls, liberalising the banking sector and privatising government enterprises.
Keating’s answer was to deregulate to let the market provide the money to projects and for government get out of the way.
Keating knew politicians and bureaucrats allocating money to pet projects would misallocate resources and risk taxpayer funds.
He privatised and established the National Electricity Market to get government out of power markets.

Modern Labor is doing the opposite.
The Albanese government has embraced government banks, including the $15 billion National Reconstruction Fund and $20 billion Rewiring the Nation vehicle to upgrade transmission infrastructure for renewables.

A nation of rent seekers​

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A work in progress: the Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro project has already jumped in cost from an initial $2 billion to $12 billion.
The blame for shifting away from a market-driven economic model should be widely shared.
The Liberals, Greens and big business are partly to blame.
The Rudd-Gillard Labor government attempted to deal with the challenge of climate change and the energy transition in an economically rational way.
A price on carbon emissions, attempted by Rudd and finalised by Gillard after a messy leadership change, would have largely left emissions reduction and energy transition decisions to the private sector.
Instead of green industrial policy that entrenches government picking winners, a carbon price allows businesses in the market try to fund the lowest cost way to reduce emissions.
Crucially, the revenue raised was to be used to compensate households by reducing income taxes and boosting government transfer payments. It could have financed other lower taxes via broader tax reform.

But Tony Abbott and big business, including miners, tore down the carbon tax, and the Greens blocked Rudd’s earlier carbon pollution reduction scheme.
Instead, Australia will become a nation of rent seekers trawling parliament and lobbying ministers for special favours, blowing billions of dollars on green-energy boondoggles.
The Snowy Hydro 2.0 pumped hydro project initiated by the Turnbull Coalition government has already jumped in cost from an initial $2 billion to $12 billion.
It could be just the tip of the iceberg.
To reach net zero emissions by 2050 and shut off all coal-fired power, Australia will need to build the equivalent of 50 Snowy Hydro schemes, according to the Energy Security Board. Or seven times the capacity of the National Electricity Market that has been built over the past 24 years.
There will be many more cost blowouts and project failures to follow, exposing taxpayers to unprecedented risks.
And whatever the long-term case is or isn’t for nuclear power, without a carbon price the Coalition will also need to bet billions of dollars of taxpayer money on the baseload energy source.
As former Treasury secretary Ken Henry said last week, if Australia still had a simple carbon price and a mining super profits tax, there would no need to go down the slippery slope of a costly green industrial policy and to prop up uncompetitive manufacturing.
Chalmers worked for Swan and still wears the scars of the mining tax and carbon tax fights, which ultimately contributed to the infighting and downfall of the Rudd-Gillard government.
Fifteen years later, he’s backing a more interventionist approach to strive for net zero to try to make Australia a wind and solar superpower, while offering incentives to private capital to exploit Australia’s critical minerals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel that are crucial for building electric vehicles and wind turbines.

“We have been dealt the most incredible cards as a country,” Chalmers says. “And if we don’t play those cards, that would be an egregious breach of our generational responsibilities.”
It’s a very different era to the time of Keating and the then finance minister Peter Walsh.
Taxation revenue this year will go close or exceed the former Coalition government’s 23.9 per cent of tax-to-GDP cap.
Spending will be elevated at around 26 per cent of GDP over the next few years, with few signs the government has taken serious steps to rein in the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which threatens to flow out from an-already inflated $42 billion to $125 billion per year over a decade.
Keating and Walsh cut bloated government spending from 27.6 per cent of GDP in 1984-85 to 22.9 per cent of GDP in 1989-90.
In today’s dollars, the almost-5 percentage points of GDP cut in spending is the equivalent of more than $100 billion a year of spending cuts, phased in over five years.
Chalmers ridicules “scorched earth” spending cuts that the Labor base won’t stomach and would be political cannon fodder for the Greens eyeing inner-city Labor seats.
His public break with Keating-nomics perhaps shouldn’t be a surprise.
Chalmers studied his PhD in politics on Paul Keating, Brawler statesman: Paul Keating and prime ministerial leadership in Australia.
Tellingly, the thesis focused much more on Keating’s wielding of political power as prime minister between 1991 and 1996, and less on his eight-year economic policy performance as treasurer.
 
Have a look into "cultural relativism" and pair it with the strong fear I mentioned previously of even opening discussion on comparisons for fear of empowering racists to discriminate on racial lines.
Is it racist to callout people from countries like Saudi Arabia & Afghanistan for the lack of respect for women and misogynistic attitudes?

Is it racist to callout Islam and their believers for the lack of respect for women and misogynistic attitudes?

Certainly the late Christopher Hitchens was not backward in coming forward on Islam and the way it mistreats women. I don't consider him a racist.

Also, at what point does it become important to judge another culture of people invited into our country, by our own standards and values established over many years and proven successful at establishing a stable and productive society ?

In these circumstances is the use of "cultural relativism" a very unhelpful concept used to shutdown discussion on this very important topic ?
 
Who is this 'Right wing media'?

Have you got data to back what you are saying?

Ingrained in society? What does that mean?

We know from government data in Europe that some crimes are committed at far higher rate per capita by immigrants from certain nations than others. Do you think that isn't something we should be vigilant about?

Sky News obviously is right wing media. You'll probably deny it.

You definitely have racist undertones. Regarding what you post.
 

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Who the hell watches Sky's garbage anyway? I think of their audience mostly as elderly conservatives that will never change anyway and younger left wing types with too much free time looking for something to be enraged over.

Surely their influence is somewhat overstated.

I agree with your views on it. It's definitely for the conservative audience who will never change.

There's unfortunately plenty of them out there though as they have far more subscribers on YouTube than other Australian media outlets.

At the moment they are going with the ALP are terrorist supporters and the great barrier reef isn't being destroyed (we just don't listen to the right scientists) nonsense.
 
Sky News obviously is right wing media. You'll probably deny it.

You definitely have racist undertones. Regarding what you post.

Once again you are going the Ad Hominem route. There is no need for it and your accusation is meaningless and disgusting. Racial undertones is the excuse used when someone no longer has an argument. It is a way of smearing someone as racist without having the courage to make the accusation. A cheap, nasty behaviour.

I agree Sky is right wing. I have never denied it. You bring them up a lot I simply have told you many times I have not and do not watch their stuff.
 
Who the hell watches Sky's garbage anyway? I think of their audience mostly as elderly conservatives that will never change anyway and younger left wing types with too much free time looking for something to be enraged over.

Surely their influence is somewhat overstated.

Agreed - I never watch it. And there is mainly one poster here who brings them up.

While failing to mention that the vast majority of our tv is centre left to far left wing.
 
Agreed - I never watch it. And there is mainly one poster here who brings them up.

While failing to mention that the vast majority of our tv is centre left to far left wing.

What tv media is far left

I bring it up because it's hilarious right wing properganda that so many Australians follow. And although you might not watch it much of what they say you echo
 
I don’t understand - if you say you don’t watch something (Sky) how can you judge what it says? Far better to watch and then compare with other channels. I’ll tell you one thing, they have a lot more fun. They also have an excellent all-day news service. You don’t have to watch opinion shows but I highly recommend Sharri Markson.
 
Chris Kenny on Sky was pro voice. He had significant time on air putting the Yes case forward

He was a member of the senior advisory group that guided the Indigenous Voice co-design process.

He hosted a debate which included Dean Parkin and Dr Shireen Morris for the Yes camp.

Why should people not view that purely because it was on Sky ?
 
And how about all the bikies who have been here for generations inflicting serious bodily harm while heavily involved in drug import and human exploitation Australia wide?

The media highlight some violent migrants and people get all worked up about migration numbers while ignoring far bigger problems in Australia.

That is just one of many I can list.

The old right wing fear tactic instead of looking at violence accross the entire nation.
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Chris Kenny on Sky was pro voice. He had significant time on air putting the Yes case forward

He was a member of the senior advisory group that guided the Indigenous Voice co-design process.

He hosted a debate which included Dean Parkin and Dr Shireen Morris for the Yes camp.

Why should people not view that purely because it was on Sky ?
Some very good documentaries too. Looking forward to the one on 28/5.
 

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What tv media is far left

I bring it up because it's hilarious right wing properganda that so many Australians follow. And although you might not watch it much of what they say you echo

The ABC, The Project and almost any commentary show on 7, 9 or 10.

The ABC is way left with the Greens. It is part of the reason they should not be funded by the government. If they are going to be hyper partisan they shouldn't be funded by tax dollars.
 

Chalmers crumbles and gives up spending restraint​

Jim Chalmers is like a bloke who successfully dieted for two years but crumbled after someone shoved a bucket of KFC under his nose.

Phillip Coorey Political editor
May 14, 2024 – 7.32pm




For his first two budgets, Jim Chalmers showed admirable restraint when it came to spending, especially given the pressures that face a Labor treasurer.
This time, however, he’s like a bloke who successfully dieted for two years but crumbled after someone shoved a bucket of KFC under his nose.
The treasurer called his third budget a document about near-term pressures and long-term priorities.
This is right, insofar as it is front loaded with cost-of-living relief, while the $22.7 billion in investments and tax incentives for the Future Made in Australia Act are more in the medium term and beyond.
A cynic, however, may describe it as a short-term shameless vote buying exercise designed to buttress the government for the next election, followed by a large dose of “we’ll fix up the mess afterwards”.
Why? Because by this time next year, the federal election will either be done and dusted, or just days away.

That is regardless of whether Anthony Albanese pulls the trigger for an early, pre-Christmas poll, or goes near term in March or April, or full term in May, with May 17, 2025 being the last realistic date.
If the government does go full term, there will be another budget as another one has already been scheduled for March next year.
But, after boasting this week about being the first government since that of John Howard and Peter Costello to deliver two successive surpluses, will Labor really want to go to the next election staring at deficits all the way to the horizon?
Tuesday’s budget forecast a $9.3 billion surplus for this year, before plummeting back into the red sharply over the next four years and staying there for a decade, all propelled by a spending splurge over the next four years that is a net $24.4 billion higher than the last budget update released in December.
At the same time, the economy will be slowing faster than expected, although the unemployment forecast remains unchanged.
Chalmers said repeatedly in the lead-up to the budget that it would be a document based on good economics and that the politics would follow.

However, it has always been the case that budgets are a mix of politics and economics with the ratio directly proportional to the proximity of the next elections. And this is no different.
Exhibit A is the power price discounts. These will deliver $300 discounts to every household and $325 to every small business.
They will not be means-tested, will be in addition to the discounts being ladled out by the states in their budgets ($1000 in Queensland, $400 in WA), and will cost $3.5 billion just for one year.
Asked why the well-heeled needed the handout, not to mention those who have festooned their roofs with solar panels and batteries, Chalmers said cost-of-living pressures were being felt right up the income scale.
“Middle Australia is under pressure too,” he said.
Maybe so, given the government didn’t want to annoy any further those who woke up one day in late January to discover the prime minister had decided to break a promise and diddle them on their promised stage three tax cut.

A flicker, perhaps, of looking after the aspirational folk.
Another side benefit is that the power bill discounts help the government inch towards that $275 average power bill deduction it promised by 2025.
Most likely is that it is a crude exercise designed to drive inflation down and into the Reserve Bank of Australia’s 2 per cent to 3 per cent target band and precipitate a rate cut.
The seed was sown last year when the states and the federal government between them chipped in $3 billion for power bill discounts that averaged about $500 per household. Some were means tested, some were not, but Treasury concluded they collectively drove down headline inflation by 0.5 of a percentage point simply by lowering the cost of a key input used to calculate prices.
Next year’s $3.5 billion hammer blow will, Treasury forecasts, have the same effect in 2024-25. Should that occur, and the RBA accepts it, the government could buy itself a pre-election rate cut.
The secondary effects of such a policy, which Treasury does not model, would be dealt with afterwards.

At a minimum, should the RBA not fall for it and increase rates again before the election, Chalmers will be able to say “not my fault, the budget was deflationary, Treasury said so”.
As he said Tuesday: “Our view and our advice is the combination of cost-of-living relief we are providing in this budget will put downward pressure on inflation and not add to broader inflationary pressures in the economy.”
Either way, barring a sharp turnaround in the global and domestic outlook, it is difficult to see the government wanting to hand down another budget before going to the polls.
“To land a second surplus would see the first back-to-back surpluses in almost two decades. That’s a demonstration of a defining feature of this government, which is responsible economic management,” Chalmers said.
That’s a much better pitch than one about staring into the abyss of debt and deficit.
 

  • In short: Every household will receive $300 in energy bill relief, with Commonwealth rent assistance also set to rise by 10 per cent.
  • The federal government's 2024-25 budget seeks to tame inflation, help ease living costs and bolster Labor's pre-election economic credentials.
  • The budget also caps medicine prices and pledges billions to drive investment in renewable industries and energy.
A $300 energy bill credit for every household, a 10 per cent increase to Commonwealth rent assistance and capped PBS medicine prices headline a budget aimed at easing living costs and bolstering the government's pre-election standing.
The 2024-25 federal budget has the government offering measures it says will cut inflation, which it hopes will prompt the Reserve Bank to cut interest rates before voters go to back to the polls next year.
Jim Chalmers's third budget, propped up significantly thanks to high commodity prices and low unemployment, has the treasurer entering rare air by delivering a second consecutive surplus — Australia's first in almost two decades.
But it signals tough economic times ahead, with unemployment forecast to rise in the next year and real wages not expected to reach 1 per cent growth until 2026-27. )
"This budget shows we are realistic about the pressures people face now — and optimistic about the future," Mr Chalmers said.

Short-term cost-of-living relief

Compared to December's mid-year budget update, the government is spending an extra $11.7 billion in 2024-25 financial year, including $1.1 billion in unannounced measures. Over the next four years, the budget includes an extra $32.5 billion in new spending and $8 billion in savings.
From July, all taxpayers will receive a tax cut, as part of the government's already announced revised stage 3 tax plan.
The energy bill relief, which will be $300 for households and $325 for around 1 million small businesses, will go straight onto bills, meaning people won't receive the cash but will receive a discount.
While the amount of bill relief is lower than similar measures in last year's budget, this year it goes to everyone, rather than the 5 million eligible households in 2023-24.
Nearly 1 million people receiving the full Commonwealth rent assistance will receive an extra 10 per cent in their payment.
Treasury forecasts those two measures combined will cut 0.5 percentage points off inflation in 2024-25.

With inflation at 3.6 per cent in the year to March, the government hopes its measures will help bring headline inflation below 3 per cent before Christmas, increasing the likelihood of a rate cut.


"Treasury is now forecasting inflation could return to target earlier, perhaps even by the end of this year," Mr Chalmers said.​
Medicines listed on the Pharmaceutical Benefit Scheme will be capped at a maximum cost of $31.60 for two years. For pensioners and concession card holders, they will pay no more than $7.70 per medicine for five years.
The government will also continue to freeze the deeming rates for another year. If the government had lifted the deeming rates, it would have meant 876,000 income support recipients, more than half of whom are on the aged pension, likely would have seen a fall in welfare payments.
The government has trumpeted expanding eligibility for the higher rate of JobSeeker as a cost-of-living measure but the budget papers show it will only affect 4,700 people with a limited ability to work.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05...im-chalmers-energy-bill-rent-relief/103836280
 
The ABC, The Project and almost any commentary show on 7, 9 or 10.

The ABC is way left with the Greens. It is part of the reason they should not be funded by the government. If they are going to be hyper partisan they shouldn't be funded by tax dollars.

You truly are a tripper
 
Yeah the ABC is great.

And apart from the panel type shows imo pretty neutral as wall.

Yep exactly

Calling the ABC far left is just ridiculous. The panel or whatever it's called was and is just mind numbing. I'll post something funny about it.
 
Yeah the ABC is great.

And apart from the panel type shows imo pretty neutral as wall.

Look at post election shows - tell me what you notice.

Look at headlines on their website and tell me if you can see a bias or not.

Finally look at the resumes of editorial staff and of the boss of the abc and tell me what you notice.

The ABC has become a hyper partisan nonsensical institution.

Look at any issue that you could define on left/centre or right and tell me where they land on the issue.
 
Once again with the personal rubbish. I don't know why it is needed.

You accused me of being one who would dispute Sky was right leaning, and I didn't. Yet you are doing the same without any evidence and making it personal... again.

Too funny

Why do you get triggered every time I post?

You are the big man who self promotes how awesome you are because you have worked for not for profit places in the world, like you are the only person who helps society out on this board. Then you tell us all you are a victim but not in the mind due to indigenous people and follow up with how migration is destroying the fabric of our society but your not racist.

I just think you are hilarious. That's all.
 
Yep exactly

Calling the ABC far left is just ridiculous. The panel or whatever it's called was and is just mind numbing. I'll post something funny about it.

Yes mind numbing... and ideologically greens level left. Which unless we include the murderous socialist left, is far left. And I don't include the radical socialists in this discourse as it is as offensive as calling someone far right and meaning fascist.
 
Too funny

Why do you get triggered every time I post?

You are the big man who self promotes how awesome you are because you have worked for not for profit places in the world, like you are the only person who helps society out on this board. Then you tell us all you are a victim but not in the mind due to indigenous people and follow up with how migration is destroying the fabric of our society but your not racist.

I just think you are hilarious. That's all.

Ah all the personal stuff again... you just keep it coming. Calling me racist again.

Where did I say immigration is destroying the fabric of society? Find the quote. You made the disgusting accusation, now find the quote to back up your behaviour.
 

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