Review Round 11, 2022 vs Essendon

[Grave Danger]

I don’t understand how this puts SPP as the second worst player on the ground.

Ollie's second half ratings

Scott Camperelli gave Ollie b.o.g. in ABC radio's AFLM player of the year award - the coaches both gave it to Parish:

 

[sobrave]

Scott Camperelli gave Ollie the three votes in ABC radio's AFLM player of the year - the coaches both gave it to Parish:

View attachment 1412721

Rutten and Ken don't understand the game at all based on those votes.

And also the fact they're both shithouse coaches

 

[philthy05]

He plays on the number 2 forward always has. Spent the entire career having to play tall for us.
Apart from who he played on his role requires helping out clurey as 3rd man up. Played a serviceable game, hardly a nightmare game.

He frees up allir to play on the 3rd best or sometimes 4th best fwd.. that how interceptors work..

I’m not sure if you’ve been watching games.

Who is the bombers 2nd kf btw (I know but I want to hear you say it).


Also, since when has Alir played on the 3rd or 4th best forward? You think that’s what’s happening this year?

Clurey and Alir have been standing most of the teams main kfs. Hell, we’ve all made an issue of how many times either alirs been struggling playing on dangerous kfs instead of playing loose, and how clureys often outsized by the main FF.

Jonas out of all 3 has spent by far the least amount of time on the oppos main kfs this year, to the point that it’s often hard to even spot him.

You yourself referred to Jonas as being the “3rd man up” at contests.

 

[GremioPower]

Todd Marshall and SPP - WTF?

That’s why stats are tools. They help, but they don’t do the job for you. You still need to use them properly. They don’t tell everything.

 

[GremioPower]

Scott Camperelli gave Ollie b.o.g. in ABC radio's AFLM player of the year award - the coaches both gave it to Parish:

View attachment 1412721

They saw the same game apparently…

 

[Grave Danger]

Rutten and Ken don't understand the game at all based on those votes.

And also the fact they're both shithouse coaches

Maybe they admired the leadership shown by Parish at the quarter time break:

 

[raptalia]

Hayes was well beaten on the day by Phillips and Draper.

Phillips especially was one of the better players on the ground, he hit the scoreboard, got his own clearances and set up clearances for his team-mates with meterage to his taps which was crucial in the wet conditions.

The bye couldn't of come soon enough for Hayes, there was always going to be a game when he played flat, young player, handful of games, fitter but flat unfortunately.

The big issue for mine is who we ruck when Hayes is off the ground. Rucking SPP is not an option for mine especially in yesterday's wet conditions where his big body should of been utilised in helping to bash, crash and knock the ball forward.
With Finlayson, Marshall and Dixon in the side I can't see why SPP should ever be the option.

Hayes has 7 games experience and is always going to struggle when he comes up against a side with two genuine talls. He has to have some genuine help in ruck and I agree that Sam Powell pepper is not the answer, nor are Finlayson or Marshall.

Perhaps when Dixon is back to full fitness we may be able to use him as a backup for Sam. Ken has done this before.

Individually Hayes did not do that badly but his efforts were severely affected by the weight of numbers he was up against.

 

[Windy Cindy]

I’m not sure if you’ve been watching games.

Who is the bombers 2nd kf btw (I know but I want to hear you say it).


Also, since when has Alir played on the 3rd or 4th best forward? You think that’s what’s happening this year?

Clurey and Alir have been standing most of the teams main kfs. Hell, we’ve all made an issue of how many times either alirs been struggling playing on dangerous kfs instead of playing loose, and how clureys often outsized by the main FF.

Jonas out of all 3 has spent by far the least amount of time on the oppos main kfs this year, to the point that it’s often hard to even spot him.

You yourself referred to Jonas as being the “3rd man up” at contests.

Harry jones would be their number 2.

Im not sure if your judgement isnt just clouded on jonas. 3rd man up means he leaves his opponent and helps with an over the top spoil, not an interceptor.

If you watched the way we play the idea is to free up allir, not play him on a key forward because his one on one stuff isnt his strength, his strength is interception, playing off his man. Thats why he he doesnt get the big match up, pointless wasting his skill set manning a the big forward, its why he never plays on hawkins or king or whomever. Thats why jonas and clurey play undersized, because we are trying to free up our attacking weapons off half back.

Ya reckon stewart plays on the mid to small most dangerous player, no they try and manufacture the best matchup so he can ignore his opponent and intercept. Thats what we are trying to do with allir.

Theres no doubt he not the best with ball in hand, but hes not on his own, our brownlow medallist is not the best with ball in hand

 

[Alberton Proud]

I don’t understand how this puts SPP as the second worst player on the ground.

and Motlop 10th best on the field

Carn

 

[philthy05]

Harry jones would be their number 2.

Im not sure if your judgement isnt just clouded on jonas. 3rd man up means he leaves his opponent and helps with an over the top spoil, not an interceptor.

If you watched the way we play the idea is to free up allir, not play him on a key forward because his one on one stuff isnt his strength, his strength is interception, playing off his man. Thats why he he doesnt get the big match up, pointless wasting his skill set manning a the big forward, its why he never plays on hawkins or king or whomever. Thats why jonas and clurey play undersized, because we are trying to free up our attacking weapons off half back.

Ya reckon stewart plays on the mid to small most dangerous player, no they try and manufacture the best matchup so he can ignore his opponent and intercept. Thats what we are trying to do with allir.

Theres no doubt he not the best with ball in hand, but hes not on his own, our brownlow medallist is not the best with ball in hand

A) Alirs spent more time on the main kfs this year than Jonas.

B) if all you want from your 3rd man up is to spoil then you have very low expectations

Every other club expects their defenders to take intercept marks, and they do.

You honestly can’t be telling me that Jonas 5d 1r50 2 intercept possession game wasn’t absolute rubbish?

 

[Windy Cindy]

A) Alirs spent more time on the main kfs this year than Jonas.

B) if all you want from your 3rd man up is to spoil then you have very low expectations

Every other club expects their defenders to take intercept marks, and they do.

You honestly can’t be telling me that Jonas 5d 1r50 2 intercept possession game wasn’t absolute rubbish?

A) based on what? your perception? the aim is to free allir, if he has spent more time on the keys then probably explains why we are 5-6 and why hinkley is a goose. Why would we play our elite interceptor, our AA interceptor on a key forward, doesnt make any sense.

B) team players leave there men and spoil and help out their fellow backs, never an easy kick is earnt of jonas he makes them all earn it, as ive said i love the way he legitimately hurts his opponents, he spoils to hurt and he tackles to hurt. A very good footballer in my opinion, much maligned on here

how did his opponent go? he did his job, under a fair few inside 50s pressure

 

[Andre]

A) Alirs spent more time on the main kfs this year than Jonas.

B) if all you want from your 3rd man up is to spoil then you have very low expectations

Every other club expects their defenders to take intercept marks, and they do.

You honestly can’t be telling me that Jonas 5d 1r50 2 intercept possession game wasn’t absolute rubbish?

Some people can't let go of that a) The myth of Jonas the great defender has always exceeded the reality and b) even given that he's been on a clear downslide. He was clearly down in 2021 from previous years and has dropped further again this year.

 

[Janey]

When we lose because of inaccurate kicking “we didn’t deserve to win, bad kicking is bad football”
when we win because of the opposition’s bad kicking “ we didn’t deserve to win, they were better than us, if they’d kicked straight…..”

 

[Stryke]

Rozee marking at 40m, only to then kick it to a 50/50 Dixon contest, who then had a low percentage shot from the pocket just sums us up. It worked that time but it's really such a low percentage option. We are so dumb and badly drilled. Just take the fking shot.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I don’t understand how this puts SPP as the second worst player on the ground.

If you * up, the system punishes you, and you can get a big negative pts score for that individual * ups.

If you do what is expected ie take an uncontested mark when nobody is around you, you get no extra pts, or kick a goal from 15m out straight in front you get bugger all extra points, because it's an expected result.

Have a shot on goal from 15m straight out, and you get +0.60pts. Kick a behind and you get -3.90pts. Kick it out on the full you get -4.80pts.

Kick a goal from 60m out and you get +3.60pts, a behind -0.90pts and out on the full -1.80pts

He kicked 4 behinds and made 3 clangers, of which 2 are from free kicks against him. Those 7 "errors" could be -10pts to -15pts under the algorithm depending how bad they are rated. Take those negative pts away and he ends in the top 6 players.

I don't agree with everything in the algorithm, but its a consistent method over a season or over the 40 or 50 games they rate players to rank them against every player in the league. It under rates some hard tough footy stuff that we and coaches like to see.

For example win a hardball in a contest and you only get +0.20pts, and then kick it 40m but the oppo take an uncontested mark from your kick, even 40-60m away and you also get -0.86pts. So you get a net -0.66pts.

That's probably why Ollie doesn't dominate the player ratings like you think he would have last year when he was getting 35-40 disposals. But the umpires (and crowd, footy public, coaches and commentators) notice that hardball get more than the turnover kick

Todd Marshall kicked 5 goals, 3 were tough shots and he got just over 20pts all up and was rated best on ground despite only a dozen possessions, earlier in the year, because he only made a minor handball clanger and a small negative pts against his positive total.

If you really want to understand how it works here is the 2013 book. There has been some minor adjustments since then. On page 14 they show how Lewis Jetta scored his pts in the 2012 GF. They go through every time he was involved in the play. He doesn't score much for that 80-100m play he did on the outer wing for example. At end of page 13 they say

Single Player – Full Match Example
Lewis Jetta – 2012 AFL Grand Final
Despite winning just 12 disposals (equal 30th on the ground) and failing to kick a goal Lewis Jetta was the 15th highest rated player in the grand final. All but three of his disposals were positive outcomes to the team and one free kick against was his only other negative.
See next page.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I'm not a fan of the way systems like that punish clangers, especially from contested players. If you go in and win a hard ball but your resulting kick misses the target, should that really be treated worse than not getting the ball at all?

 

[Portmagpies36]

Yeah. DBJ is never going to be a star, but he's symbolic of our club at present. Just completely lost form and confidence and in desperate need of a new coach. Now guys like Jonas, Motlop, Gray it should be their last year due to their age, but I really want to see players like DBJ thrive under a new coach and get their mojo back.

I'm not sure DBJ would be in the side under a new coach, he has been carried the last 18 months and his disposal is very very average.

 

[dirty2]

I'm not a fan of the way systems like that punish clangers, especially from contested players. If you go in and win a hard ball but your resulting kick misses the target, should that really be treated worse than not getting the ball at all?

Depends you win the hard ball kick it across goal and the opposition marks and goals it would be better if you didn't get the ball at all

 

[tribey]

It does make you wonder, we pay the head coach at least $800,000

Given we can’t get relegated, paying this bloke that amount of cash to serve up what he has is hilarious.

My nan could’ve coached this mob to wins against West Coast, North Melbourne and Essendon, and she’d have done it for a cuppa coffee and a packet of Kingstons.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]