Injury Russell your feathers - discuss all things high performance; injury lists, Marvel surface, curse from the gods and Andrew Russell

[JustOneTime]

Named as an emergency.


Proof he exists …

Thanks Aph. I love those computer generated AI fake profiles.

Kidding.

 

[BlueJet]

So you honestly think Kingy was at the only session that was ultra high intensity for the preseason in January….

I’ve been on the remove Russell side for 18 months + and nothing has changed this year to suggest I should change my thoughts.

Premiership clock is ticking….


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No of course not but please engage meaningfully rather than taking the reductive approach. You've now twice misrepresented what others have said to try & further your argument.
The point is a King, a casual viewer of training, with a limited dataset is probably not in position to make a strong argument one way or another, instead it's being presented as proof of mismanagement.
Problematic to say the least.

The premiership clock is always ticking & last season was as close as we've been in recent memory so despite the negativity, we're evidently doing something right.

 

[JustOneTime]

I hope this same denouncement 'rigour of evidence' and 'how can you know without being an employee of an AFL club system' is also applied to the same posters when they tout draft prospects they like .

I'll be the first to say, where is your evidence? And what are your internal club qualifications? And when poster mentions stats I'll quote "there are lies, damned lies and stastitics;. All to derail said poster's point of view.

And i'll mention problematic a lot.

 

[Aphrodite]

I hope this same denouncement 'rigour of evidence' and 'how can you know without being an employee of an AFL club system' is also applied to the same posters when they tout draft prospects they like .

I'll be the first to say, where is your evidence? And what are your internal club qualifications? And when poster mentions stats I'll quote "there are lies, damned lies and stastitics;. All to derail said poster's point of view.

And i'll mention problematic a lot.

I don't think so!

 

[BlueJet]

There's a sizable difference between discussing a personal opinion & trying to present an opinion as fact.
Arrow has repeatedly stated he's willing to go through our injury list on a weekly basis, with no takers as yet..
I'm no expert in sports science so I largely stay away from sweeping declarations one way or another. I've largely played the middle-ground because I don't know for certain.
The counterargument has seemingly been reliant on referring our injury list alone & a David King tweet.

I'll acknowledge my bias regarding Rebels players if it helps, however..

 

[Arr0w]

Huge difference between assessing talent ID, to assessing factual GPS numbers for player workloads

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Unfortunately for Russell he is the Director of High Performance. Injury, fitness and conditioning is ultimately his responsibility.

I think it is impossible to point the finger directly at him and his management of our players, but surely it is under his scope to figure out what is actually going? Our injury list year on year is not bad luck. It is not normal to have a dozen on the injury list for most of the season.

Everything should come under scrutiny. I reckon if you improved everything by even 10%; pre-recruitment testing, rehab programs, pre-season work loads, game day work loads, player commitment to training/recovery, the PP turf, we would be a hell of a lot better for it.

 

[JustOneTime]

Completely no difference at all.

Contextually this is a footy forum for the layman. That context doesnt 'typically' require rigour in the sense of why this site was created. To spitball support, show frustration or enjoyment, talk ideas & opinions etc.

So if you want to ask for said rigour which is fine too, then that same requestor has to abide being called out for the same level of rigour when they post about anything.

If a poster rates a player in the upcoming draft...I mean how valid is that opinion. IMO, really really low I'd expect if we were to ask the poster about their club experience, industry experience, draft experience, following every game vision, interviewing AFL prospects, talking to their families etc.

 

[Arr0w]

There's a sizable difference between discussing a personal opinion & trying to present an opinion as fact.
Arrow has repeatedly stated he's willing to go through our injury list on a weekly basis, with no takers as yet..
I'm no expert in sports science so I largely stay away from sweeping declarations one way or another. I've largely played the middle-ground because I don't know for certain.
The counterargument has seemingly been reliant on referring our injury list alone & a David King tweet.

I'll acknowledge my bias regarding Rebels players if it helps, however..

Just another attempt to play the poster rather than debate an opinion and or facts

Statements like "Our current injuries are due to the club overworking players in the preseason" is fine if it's opinion

Using the comments of someone in the footy media, that attended one preseason session, that made no mention that the club has over worked players, is not fact based justification, for an opinion

As for talent ID, it's all opinion based, from the casual observer, to club recruiters, plenty of busts and misses and I've never seen anyone nail the best player still available on the board, with every single pick in a solitary year

 

[katmanblue]

Unfortunately for Russell he is the Director of High Performance. Injury, fitness and conditioning is ultimately his responsibility.

I think it is impossible to point the finger directly at him and his management of our players, but surely it is under his scope to figure out what is actually going? Our injury list year on year is not bad luck. It is not normal to have a dozen on the injury list for most of the season.

Everything should come under scrutiny. I reckon if you improved everything by even 10%; pre-recruitment testing, rehab programs, pre-season work loads, game day work loads, player commitment to training/recovery, the PP turf, we would be a hell of a lot better for it.

Do we have a Director of Bad Luck?

Because they seem to doing their job too well.

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[Arr0w]

Making the assumption that GPS devices for all players on the park were in good working order. Highlighted in yellow is when we lost the metric in a particular game

 

[BlueJet]

Completely no difference at all.

Contextually this is a footy forum for the layman. That context doesnt 'typically' require rigour in the sense of why this site was created. To spitball support, show frustration or enjoyment, talk ideas & opinions etc.

So if you want to ask for said rigour which is fine too, then that same requestor has to abide being called out for the same level of rigour when they post about anything.

If a poster rates a player in the upcoming draft...I mean how valid is that opinion. IMO, really really low I'd expect if we were to ask the poster about their club experience, industry experience, draft experience, following every game vision, interviewing AFL prospects, talking to their families etc.

Disagree, there's a significant difference between an emotive position & an informed one.
It doesn't matter what industry you're in, you don't make sweeping changes based on frustration.
As with all opinions, they remain open to interpretation & discussion. I don't think anybody has argued anything to the contrary.
My stance remains the same, that it doesn't matter whether it's Player, Coach, LM or Sports Science etc, based.
I'd want the club to review how we go about things on an ongoing basis & make informed decisions based on appropriate analysis.
Some decisions I may not agree with as an outsider, some I will, but that's life.

We're presently playing some good footy & more often than not, outworking our opposition so despite some concern on the injury front, we're doing something right.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Do we have a Director of Bad Luck?

Because they seem to doing their job too well.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Must have slipped through the cracks on that review a few years ago.

 

[JustOneTime]

Disagree, there's a significant difference between an emotive position & an informed one.
It doesn't matter what industry you're in, you don't make sweeping changes based on frustration.
As with all opinions, they remain open to interpretation & discussion. I don't think anybody has argued anything to the contrary.
My stance remains the same, that it doesn't matter whether it's Player, Coach, LM or Sports Science etc, based.
I'd want the club to review how we go about things on an ongoing basis & make informed decisions based on appropriate analysis.
Some decisions I may not agree with as an outsider, some I will, but that's life.

We're presently playing some good footy & more often than not, outworking our opposition so despite some concern on the injury front, we're doing something right.

'Sweeping changes and emotive statements' is your view on lets say how i think - it's wrong in my case but that is in IMO lol. There is a history of injuries at Carlton over multiple seasons. It is more of an issue now because our window is open and injuries may be the cause of us not winning flag. Might not be too - this is simply a forum debate for the layman.

Where do you personally rate our high performance in terms of fitness and keeping players on the park performing to their best? That would be a good starting point to continue the discussion.

Just your view of high performance at Carlton over the last 3 years. i'm in the adequate xspace.

Elite
Good
Adequate
Poor
Train wreck

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Disagree, there's a significant difference between an emotive position & an informed one.
It doesn't matter what industry you're in, you don't make sweeping changes based on frustration.
As with all opinions, they remain open to interpretation & discussion. I don't think anybody has argued anything to the contrary.
My stance remains the same, that it doesn't matter whether it's Player, Coach, LM or Sports Science etc, based.
I'd want the club to review how we go about things on an ongoing basis & make informed decisions based on appropriate analysis.
Some decisions I may not agree with as an outsider, some I will, but that's life.

We're presently playing some good footy & more often than not, outworking our opposition so despite some concern on the injury front, we're doing something right.

The informed decision I have is years of having close to if not the worst injury list and it continues this year.

That is absolute fact.

What also stacks up over history is premiership teams in the overwhelming vast majority of years just do not have the level of injuries we continue to procure.

I don’t pretend to be someone that knows what the hell is or isn’t right it’s not my speciality (which is in the tech space), though I can look at it like a CEO of any company where they might not know the ins and outs but they employ people who should know and hold them accountable.

Russell absolutely is accountable, and he continues to be found wanting.
Took far too long to finally move on the accountable recruiter/s in our last rebuild that looked like producing something really meaningful, and then it was too late…we’d ****ed it totally.


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[JustOneTime]

W Hughes was dire and hurt us for a long time. A great example of head in the sand by stupid club administrators.

I can only think Hughes was a Collingwood plant and paid off the books for how bad his recruiting was.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Completely no difference at all.

Contextually this is a footy forum for the layman. That context doesnt 'typically' require rigour in the sense of why this site was created. To spitball support, show frustration or enjoyment, talk ideas & opinions etc.

So if you want to ask for said rigour which is fine too, then that same requestor has to abide being called out for the same level of rigour when they post about anything.

If a poster rates a player in the upcoming draft...I mean how valid is that opinion. IMO, really really low I'd expect if we were to ask the poster about their club experience, industry experience, draft experience, following every game vision, interviewing AFL prospects, talking to their families etc.

It is definitely a forum for the layman. If anybody here is above layman level, then their posting will speak for itself and their reputation will be made accordingly.

People can express an opinion, positive or negative, on any topic. Their opinion is then open to being discussed, agreed with, disagreed with. Their opinion is not there to be dismissed out of hand, by way of inciteful language. The only caveat to this is where moderators feel that there is an agenda to bait others. Our threshold for this is usually different to the average posters, as we usually have a greater understanding of the background and character of that poster.

I do not agree with the rigour test being a good for the goose, good for the gander, pointscoring contest. However, if you are smart enough, articulate enough, you can word any such request with respect and in a constructive way that furthers discussion and doesn't cause offense.

 

[JustOneTime]

ODN,

I'm interested in how people feel as a community overall rather than 3-5 people arguing back and forth.

Could you put up a poll with the following to see where we are at.

How do you rate our High Performance over the last 3 years (in terms of: running out games, injury mgmt, soft tissue injuries, load mgmt, fitness in general, and player durability)?

Elite
Good
Adequate
Poor
Train Wreck

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ODN,

I'm interested in how people feel as a community overall rather than 3-5 people arguing back and forth.

Could you put up a poll with the following to see where we are at.

How do you rate our High Performance over the last 3 years (in terms of: running out games, injury mgmt, soft tissue injuries, load mgmt, fitness in general, and player durability)?

Elite
Good
Adequate
Poor
Train Wreck

Is it going to achieve anything? If you have posters on here that will vote in a poll, but not participate in discussion, have they really looked at it beyond surface level?

Given this is a hot button topic on here and invariably leads to pettiness, I'm loathe to add fuel to the fire by skewing the debate one way or another, and giving someone extra ammunition.

 

[JustOneTime]

Is it going to achieve anything? If you have posters on here that will vote in a poll, but not participate in discussion, have they really looked at it beyond surface level?

Given this is a hot button topic on here and invariably leads to pettiness, I'm loathe to add fuel tonthe fire by skewing the debate one way or another, and giving someone extra ammunition.

ODN, it is such an easy request for you to implement. We do it all the time on this site. For example...we rank players when the majority dont pay attention.

The thread is 'Russell your feathers" and it is a ringfenced debate.

Personally, I love that you and Aph are doing this...

There is great value in understanding the group thought. The group think after the bombers game last season single handledly galvanised the players on their 9 game run!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ODN, it is such an easy request for you to implement. We do it all the time on this site. For example...we rank players when the majority dont pay attention.

The thread is 'Russell your feathers" and it is a ringfenced debate.

Personally, I love that you and Aph are doing this...

There is great value in understanding the group thought. The group think after the bombers game last season single handledly galvanised the players on their 9 game run!!

We are not the players and I don't see any galvanising coming.

You love that we're doing what? We haven't done anything as yet.

 

[JustOneTime]

@ODN/Aph

If I was to send a moderator a message, is that message available for all the other moderators?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

@ODN/Aph

If I was to send a moderator a message, is that message available for all the other moderators?

No. Others can be added if it's an abusive PM however. If it's cordial, then it would be bad form to invite anybody else in without consent.

 

[JustOneTime]

No. Others can be added if it's an abusive PM however. If it's cordial, then it would be bad form to invite anybody else in without consent.

Well that squashes my theory doesnt it. Thanks for giving me the wrong answer. I'll go away and find a different conspiracy theory.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Well that squashes my theory doesnt it. Thanks for giving me the wrong answer. I'll go away and find a different conspiracy theory.

Good luck