Scapegoating

[mike123]

Mayne must be pretty Crap IF Blair gets a Game over Mayne.

Gubby must be a Terrible Picker of Players

Mayne is pretty crap

 

[ZEV]

So Stringer and Cloke were the best tall forwards out there. OK.

Cloke had 14 touches and kicked a goal, Stringer had similar figures 4 times in a row last year and got dropped.... one down three to go....

 

[mike123]

Cloke had 14 touches and kicked a goal, Stringer had similar figures 4 times in a row last year and got dropped.... one down three to go....

Maybe you just watch the games instead of quote figures...

 

[TW Sherrin]

Um Stringer took more marks, more marks inside 50, had more tackles and had more scoring shots and no-one even mentions him....

At least he provided a great chop out in the ruck for Boyd....

Best tall forward on the ground was bontempelli.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Maybe you just watch the games instead of quote figures...

Agree. Those stats don't show how bog average he was.

Last year he played like that and was back page news how bad he was going. On of the best contested be of the last 10 years took 6 marks.

Ordinary.

 

[magpies42]

He may be a premiership player, but he is also not even of AFL standard. He is short, slow, makes many poor decisions, has ordinary skills, overthinks everything he does and gets caught or mis-disposes the ball, doesn't kick goals and doesn't stick tackles. He is as you rightly suggest less than perfect.

But managed to get in the 2010 side, almost automatic selection, in a side that had very few injuries ?

Blair was not alone on Friday, there was a lot of very average decision making and execution Friday.

 

[CFC2010]

Mayne is pretty crap

Based on his last Collingwood game?

 

[mike123]

Based on his last Collingwood game?

Based on TD's logic he is given Blair was selected ahead of him, but based on everything I've seen of him. He's just a limited player. His game last night was ok, kicked a goal and layed some tackles. But as a pressure player the Bulldogs defenders stepped him and or ran away from him with ease, His disposals were ok nothing special doesn't really crash packs and doesn't really pose a threat at ground level. Kinda looks like Maccaffer out there.

 

[Robroy22]

Scapegoating (particularly on the internet) is simple cowardice. Go to the footy and hurl this sort of abuse if you want to...or better still head down to training one afternoon and give those players you want to make an example of your best shot...tell them to their faces how inept they are. Let others hear the whinging, whining BS flowing from your mouth and then feel proud as you look around and see a young kid looking quizzicly at you in all your scapegoating glory.
I'm sure we all go to work everyday and have people waiting for us to stuff up and then tell us all about it. How good does it feel to be the masters of your own laptop? To be able to label another human being and not wear a jab on the nose for your trouble?
Ahhh....I'm guessing the season's over already is it?

Ps....I know there'll be an amendment somewhere in the constitution (18C??) that encourages internet giants to harrass other people with immunity, just once I'd like to see the marquis of queensbury rules enacted in its place!

 

[loki04]

Lol at the Kirby talk. He kicked 4 in a vfl practice match. Afl would be 4 times harder.

About blooding someone who long term will be capable of xfactor and momentum swinging moments. No one expects him to come in and kick 4 at AFL level.
If he can get 10 to 15 touches lay a few tackles kick a goal or 2 that would be enough to equal blairs and Maynes contributions. Its not a high bar to reach for....

 

[loki04]

I don't have a problem with that, but the rest I do. Another thing that boggles me is h's pretty slow for sub 180cm player.

Thats the issue is that he doesn't do the small man things well, not so much that he is short in and of itself.

Hes medium paced.
Not great at roving/crumbing, in fact just about never is at the fall of the ball from a fwd contest.
Doesn't have good evasive skills.
No depth to his kicking and panicky handballs that fall short.
Generally not dangerous or creative enough.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

So Stringer and Cloke were the best tall forwards out there. OK.

I am half way through the replay and would probably give White as much praise as Cloke for his first 2 qtrs. Cloke is not really 'that' good, but he gives the Bulldogs solidity in the forward line which we lacked through Moore and Cox. Stringer only gets one goal for the match and it's the smaller forwards who kick all the goals. I don't understand all the hate for White. His mobility and height sometimes work well together.

 

[mike123]

I am half way through the replay and would probably give White as much praise as Cloke for his first 2 qtrs. Cloke is not really 'that' good, but he gives the Bulldogs solidity in the forward line which we lacked through Moore and Cox. Stringer only gets one goal for the match and it's the smaller forwards who kick all the goals. I don't understand all the hate for White. His mobility and height sometimes work well together.

My problem with White is he lacks presence and doesn't do the big man things well enough. Doesn't impact contests or crash packs enough. But his mobility is handy and he can get away with it as a third forward second ruck. I reckon we would be in a better position today if we played him in round one last year ahead of Gault.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

EDIT: Read thread title incorrectly, thought it said manscapegoating. Carry on.

 

[ZEV]

Ps....I know there'll be an amendment somewhere in the constitution (18C??) that encourages internet giants to harrass other people with immunity, just once I'd like to see the marquis of queensbury rules enacted in its place!

*Marquess of Queensberry

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I don't think anyone here wants to acknowledge that Cloke was the best tall forward on the ground. He wasn't fantastic but he did his job. Apart from White, our tall forwards were well held. The bulldogs don't need a dominant forward - they just need someone to be a target and play a role. Cloke did that and Moore and Cox didn't.

May be so, but that's not saying much for any key forward.

It was just a game for Cloke.
But as it was against us the media will ofcourse go on about it.

I think we can agree Mayne was bagged a bit. I thought he was ok actually. Just a game.

Cloke v Mayne on Friday night.

Their respective afl super coach scores were 71 v 72.

Mayne had 13 disposals Cloke had 14 disposals.
Cloke 1 goal
Mayne 1 goal (and behind)
Cloke 6 marks
Mayne 4 marks
Cloke 1 tackle (still a bit low on those by old mate)
Mayne 5 tackles.

Funny thing, people laugh at Mayne, and old mate just plodded on.

Give Cloke his due, he kicks long, but he's become a good tall plodder.

So Mayne to me had a plodding game too

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

May be so, but that's not saying much for any key forward.

It was just a game for Cloke.
But as it was against us the media will ofcourse go on about it.

I think we can agree Mayne was bagged a bit. I thought he was ok actually. Just a game.

Cloke v Mayne on Friday night.

Their respective afl super coach scores were 71 v 72.

Mayne had 13 disposals Cloke had 14 disposals.
Cloke 1 goal
Mayne 1 goal (and behind)
Cloke 6 marks
Mayne 4 marks
Cloke 1 tackle (still a bit low on those by old mate)
Mayne 5 tackles.

Funny thing, people laugh at Mayne, and old mate just plodded on.

Give Cloke his due, he kicks long, but he's become a good tall plodder.

So Mayne to me had a plodding game too

I have since watched the replay - you may have seen my half time update on the big forwards. There wasn't an outstanding big forward on the ground. The medium and smaller forwards did all the damage. I don't really see how you can compare Mayne and Cloke given the different roles they played. But Mayne was good enough to get a game ahead of Blair next week.

Our crowded forward line was frustrating to watch and certainly worked against the success of a key forward. Cloke probably enjoyed the luxury of floating around open territory plucking the odd mark and bombing long. As usual his long bombs into the forward line missed a target. His best work was the short pass to assist a goal and his team lifting goal in the 1st qtr.

Cloke wasn't that good, but he played a role and looked solid. With the benefit of a replay, I thought White played better on the night, but he is not really being asked to play as a key forward.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I have since watched the replay - you may have seen my half time update on the big forwards. There wasn't an outstanding big forward on the ground. The medium and smaller forwards did all the damage. I don't really see how you can compare Mayne and Cloke given the different roles they played. But Mayne was good enough to get a game ahead of Blair next week.

Our crowded forward line was frustrating to watch and certainly worked against the success of a key forward. Cloke probably enjoyed the luxury of floating around open territory plucking the odd mark and bombing long. As usual his long bombs into the forward line missed a target. His best work was the short pass to assist a goal and his team lifting goal in the 1st qtr.

Cloke wasn't that good, but he played a role and looked solid. With the benefit of a replay, I thought White played better on the night, but he is not really being asked to play as a key forward.

White cops it a bit too much.
He does a role, no star, but has his moments.
Plus gives us that tattooed look, we've perfected.

Agree no major forward on the night.

My main point (pun intended, as usually I intend puns) was how Mayne copped it, but was akin to Cloke numbers wise.

Cloke was an outstanding beast of contested marking. That part of his game has fallen away over the last few years. I doubt it returns.

He has always been a good long kick, but if Cloke was say Anthony Rocca kicking (seemed Rocca was far more accurate) Cloke would be regarded as an all time key forever star.

In my best team of Collingwood players seen, I has pegged Travis to be thereabouts as CHF but now to me it's so simple he's not a consideration.

I have his dad David in that position. Overall David far superior, greater longevity, far far far better ruckman, far far far more accurate (quaint style but effective) and I'd say David far stronger mentally on field.