Review Size Matters

[discofan]

Read an article by Shaun Rehn in the Adelaide Sunday Mail after round 3.
It basically stated the advantages of 'bigger blokes' . The article contained a 'weight ladder' which is the combined weight of all 22 players - here is the ladder
1 Coll, 2 Geel, 3 WBulls, 4 WCE, 5 Freo, 6 Adl, 7 Syd, 8 Haw, 9 St K, 10 P Adl, 11 Nth M, 12 CFC, 13 Melb 14, Ess, 15GCS, 16 Bris, 17 RICHMOND.

Think that it pretty well sums the 'size' dicussion up - without a couple of big bloke we aint going much anywhere ! (just a bit further to the 'Top 8 thread that is currently posted)
Imagine if we could recruit a couple of silverbacks like C. Dawes and L Brown - we would be top 4 with a bullet !

 

[telsor]

Read an article by Shaun Rehn in the Adelaide Sunday Mail after round 3.
It basically stated the advantages of 'bigger blokes' . The article contained a 'weight ladder' which is the combined weight of all 22 players - here is the ladder
1 Coll, 2 Geel, 3 WBulls, 4 WCE, 5 Freo, 6 Adl, 7 Syd, 8 Haw, 9 St K, 10 P Adl, 11 Nth M, 12 CFC, 13 Melb 14, Ess, 15GCS, 16 Bris, 17 RICHMOND.

Think that it pretty well sums the 'size' dicussion up - without a couple of big bloke we aint going much anywhere ! (just a bit further to the 'Top 8 thread that is currently posted)
Imagine if we could recruit a couple of silverbacks like C. Dawes and L Brown - we would be top 4 with a bullet !

If it was only that simple..

Out: King, Nahas
In: Browne, Derickx

 

[santa claws]

If it was only that simple..

Out: King, Nahas
In: Browne, Derickx

a lot of it is that simple
have said for yrs and most have turned up their toes and scoffed that while size and structure may not win you a game it certainly enables you to at least compete.
we have been having this debate since before wallace who proclaimed the game would go the other way.
what rehn is saying is nothing new.

our trouble we play king nahas white edwards nason and last yr at times webberley and hicks as well. size in most of these players is not the only problem its the standard their skills are at.we can add foley as a small and both batchelor and helbig both mediums atm are undersized.
have said this a bit now but for me of all those smalls i can only find a place in the 22 for two and thats king atm and foley.

the above is also made worse when you look at the size weight of our talls thursfield mcguane moore and now grimes. also vickery. hence the call for big bodied defenders for yrs now. and no im not having a go at grimes or vickery they will take time to put on the bulk and do need to be given games.

yep we not only play undersizrd but short and with far too many players who are hit and miss with their skills.

 

[discofan]

Very well put Santa Claws - you get my vote for a job on the RFC recruitment board.

 

[Puntroad]

Obviously not set in stone, though: more time in system (more experience) = greater weight above what might be a height 'standard'

 

[brett15]

highlights we really need Griffiths, Post and Astbury out there firing.

Watched the anzac day game and an essendon player tried to shepard Dawes running full tilt at a teamate, didn't end well as he got clean bowled out of the way, literally flying like it was wrestling match. Dawes, Cloke, Jolly and Leigh-Brown are pretty big units.

 

[TheProwler]

I will back the small skinny kid with good skills who can read the play and a good judgment of the flight of the ball in the air over the 100kg 198cm player all day long. You dont have to be huge just smarter.

JR is exhibit A here. Still no man mountain but reads the ball flight better than his opponent which allows him to win more contests.Looking at some great KPD in Scarlett and Lake who have some weight more so than height the reason these blokes have been AA is duee to their ability more than their size.

One of the reasons we are so low in Rehns ladder is due to the fact we have jettisoned Patto, Hughes, Polak, Richo, Shulz, Simmonds etc. If we still had most of these we would be higher on Rehns list but further away from being competitive.

 

[Mr Magic]

I will back the small skinny kid with good skills who can read the play and a good judgment of the flight of the ball in the air over the 100kg 198cm player all day long. You dont have to be huge just smarter.

JR is exhibit A here. Still no man mountain but reads the ball flight better than his opponent which allows him to win more contests.Looking at some great KPD in Scarlett and Lake who have some weight more so than height the reason these blokes have been AA is duee to their ability more than their size.

One of the reasons we are so low in Rehns ladder is due to the fact we have jettisoned Patto, Hughes, Polak, Richo, Shulz, Simmonds etc. If we still had most of these we would be higher on Rehns list but further away from being competitive.

JR isn't small!!!


The problem is some of our players haven't been light but very light-eg. Fiora, Nahas, Macguane, Thursfield etc..


Lids isn't light but he aint heavy either. He wouldn't want to be any lighter, he is just right for his role. Someone like Marto looks like an alien with his strength compared to our normal players.

Our size does not necessarily relate to our key positions, except our defenders where generally the is not a lot of bulk all over. Rance and Grimes made a difference , particularly Grimes in the last game due to the extra physical pressure and robustness through a better core strength.

Our midfielders in the past has been far too thin and short as well as a collective group relative to the opposition. Cotch , Martin have allowed us to improve in this area apart from their general ability!!

 

[TheProwler]

JR isn't small!!!

Correct but he will build into his body further in coming years but his real strength is he judges the ball better in the air and gets to the right spot better then some. I will take this any day over a Dawes or Brown who have size but often end up in the wrong spot as thy fail to read it as well as the opposition.

 

[Mr Magic]

Correct but he will build into his body further in coming years but his real strength is he judges the ball better in the air and gets to the right spot better then some. I will take this any day over a Dawes or Brown who have size but often end up in the wrong spot as thy fail to read it as well as the opposition.

JR doesn't need to get any bigger, like Lids he is just right, If we want more size get other players to do the role like Griff!!!

 

[folester41]

we certainly need some big bodied players, a big bodied full back, big bodied midfielder or two and a medium size foward that has a bit of size would be nice.

 

[_RT_]

B: Matt Dea (19 186cm 84kg) David Astbury (20 195cm 92/95kg) Dylan Grimes(20 193cm 87/93kg)

HB: Jake Batchelor (19 188cm 78/83) Alex Rance (22 194cm 93kg) Chris Newman (29 183cm 82kg)

C: Shaun Grigg (23 190cm 84kg) Trent Cotchin (21 185cm 83kg) Bachar Houli (23 180cm 82kg)


HF: Brett Deledio (24 188cm 88kg) Jack Riewoldt (22 195cm 93kg) Reece Conca (19 185cm 78/82kg)

F: Dean MacDonald (19 184cm 87kg) Ben Griffiths (20 199cm 95kg) Tyrone Vickery (20 200cm 95/100kg)

R: Angus Graham(24 201cm 102kg) Dustin Martin (20 187cm 86kg) Nathan Foley (26 178cm 80kg)

I/C: Daniel Connors (23 186cm 84kg) Bradley Helbig(19 185cm 78/82kg) Daniel Jackson (25 188cm 91kg)

Sub: Jayden Post (21 195cm 93kg)/Tom Derickx (23 201cm 99kg)

If we're talking about getting a side with plenty of size then for me this is the lineup we should be aiming for. There are only 2 players that are 180cm or shorter (Foley & Houli) and not one player weighs under 80kg.

Note: players with bolded weights is what I'd like to see them get to and what they currently weigh.

 

[NQTIGER]

Thats what my wife says too

 

[TheProwler]

B: Matt Dea (19 186cm 84kg) David Astbury (20 195cm 92/95kg) Dylan Grimes(20 193cm 87/93kg)

HB: Jake Batchelor (19 188cm 78/83) Alex Rance (22 194cm 93kg) Chris Newman (29 183cm 82kg)

C: Shaun Grigg (23 190cm 84kg) Trent Cotchin (21 185cm 83kg) Bachar Houli (23 180cm 82kg)


HF: Brett Deledio (24 188cm 88kg) Jack Riewoldt (22 195cm 93kg) Reece Conca (19 185cm 78/82kg)

F: Dean MacDonald (19 184cm 87kg) Ben Griffiths (20 199cm 95kg) Tyrone Vickery (20 200cm 95/100kg)

R: Angus Graham(24 201cm 102kg) Dustin Martin (20 187cm 86kg) Nathan Foley (26 178cm 80kg)

I/C: Daniel Connors (23 186cm 84kg) Bradley Helbig(19 185cm 78/82kg) Daniel Jackson (25 188cm 91kg)

Sub: Jayden Post (21 195cm 93kg)/Tom Derickx (23 201cm 99kg)

If we're talking about getting a side with plenty of size then for me this is the lineup we should be aiming for. There are only 2 players that are 180cm or shorter (Foley & Houli) and not one player weighs under 80kg.

Note: players with bolded weights is what I'd like to see them get to and what they currently weigh.

Post, Rance, Astbury are currently similar size to Scarlett, Lonegran and Taylor. I think the question is more to whether or not they have the smarts or skills to become the player we need not how large they need to be.

People place far to much emphasis on size and not ability around here at times.

 

[_RT_]

Post, Rance, Astbury are currently similar size to Scarlett, Lonegran and Taylor. I think the question is more to whether or not they have the smarts or skills to become the player we need not how large they need to be.

People place far to much emphasis on size and not ability around here at times.

I reckon they do, like the majority of our side they need time to develop and gain experience. The difference between our blokes and Taylor and Lonergan is our blokes are trying to learn without someone like Scarlett & Harley there to take the heat off of them. The good thing about this is we're going to learn very quickly just what these guys bring to the table.

The reason I posted that side though was to show we have some decent size on the list, we just need to get the players up and running.

 

[bigstyletiger]

B: Matt Dea (19 186cm 84kg) David Astbury (20 195cm 92/95kg) Dylan Grimes(20 193cm 87/93kg)

HB: Jake Batchelor (19 188cm 78/83) Alex Rance (22 194cm 93kg) Chris Newman (29 183cm 82kg)

C: Shaun Grigg (23 190cm 84kg) Trent Cotchin (21 185cm 83kg) Bachar Houli (23 180cm 82kg)


HF: Brett Deledio (24 188cm 88kg) Jack Riewoldt (22 195cm 93kg) Reece Conca (19 185cm 78/82kg)

F: Dean MacDonald (19 184cm 87kg) Ben Griffiths (20 199cm 95kg) Tyrone Vickery (20 200cm 95/100kg)

R: Angus Graham(24 201cm 102kg) Dustin Martin (20 187cm 86kg) Nathan Foley (26 178cm 80kg)

I/C: Daniel Connors (23 186cm 84kg) Bradley Helbig(19 185cm 78/82kg) Daniel Jackson (25 188cm 91kg)

Sub: Jayden Post (21 195cm 93kg)/Tom Derickx (23 201cm 99kg)

If we're talking about getting a side with plenty of size then for me this is the lineup we should be aiming for. There are only 2 players that are 180cm or shorter (Foley & Houli) and not one player weighs under 80kg.

Note: players with bolded weights is what I'd like to see them get to and what they currently weigh.

I think this shows that we don't really have a big problem. While I couldn't agree more with the statement that we do need to get bigger and taller we are also a very young list which has recently moved into new facilities. We will get bigger.

As our key backs Rance, Astbury and Grimes will be big enough and we have Post and Gourdis in the wings who are/will be pretty big units.

 

[Bazzar]

While I couldn't agree more with the statement that we do need to get bigger and taller

Collingwoods team yesterday was 1mm taller but a huge 4.7kg heavier.

 

[Infamy]

Collingwoods team yesterday was 1mm taller but a huge 4.7kg heavier.

About 2 preseasons of work then
Which is about right seeing as they average over 100 games per player and we are averaging around 50

 

[Bazzar]

About 2 preseasons of work then
Which is about right seeing as they average over 100 games per player and we are averaging around 50

Spot on. This weekends teams.

Collingwood - Richmond
187.2 Height 187.1
90.7 Weight 86
25.4 Age 23.6
117.1 Games 61.7.

Weight/body size and game time are the major differences.
Its no wonder Dimma has right from the start blooded players to get maximum games into them.

What it shows in my mind is height isnt as important as some think with the best team in the comp only 1mm taller. Another 50 games per player and 2 pre-seasons pumping weights will see us a very highly competitive unit.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Grigg 190
Houli 180
Jakobi 186
Batchelor 188
Macdonald 184
Conca 185(perhaps 182)
Helbig 185

Hopefully thats a sign the club realises it needs taller/bigger midfielders/flankers and we see this trend continue. Of course it could be a conicidence and we draft a bunch of sub 180 types this year..

 

[santa claws]

I will back the small skinny kid with good skills who can read the play and a good judgment of the flight of the ball in the air over the 100kg 198cm player all day long. You dont have to be huge just smarter.

JR is exhibit A here. Still no man mountain but reads the ball flight better than his opponent which allows him to win more contests.Looking at some great KPD in Scarlett and Lake who have some weight more so than height the reason these blokes have been AA is duee to their ability more than their size.

One of the reasons we are so low in Rehns ladder is due to the fact we have jettisoned Patto, Hughes, Polak, Richo, Shulz, Simmonds etc. If we still had most of these we would be higher on Rehns list but further away from being competitive.

rubbish id take the bigger guy who can read the play the ball in flight anyday . just look at what most sides go with. the two most successful sides of recent yrs collingwood geelong they are big they are tall and they have good skills in the main.

and we are low on on rehns ladder because we actually play undersized runts.
as far as talls go they are undersized not to mention underskilled.

i think people regularly lose sight of the fact we are currently trying to build a list capable of playing top 4 footy. our list is no where near it and in a short space of time to get there we could easily turn over another 20 odd players.

 

[santa claws]

Grigg 190
Houli 180
Jakobi 186
Batchelor 188
Macdonald 184
Conca 185(perhaps 182)
Helbig 185

Hopefully thats a sign the club realises it needs taller/bigger midfielders/flankers and we see this trend continue. Of course it could be a conicidence and we draft a bunch of sub 180 types this year..

or is an admittance that they got it wrong the yr before.
hicks roberts nason webberley farmer to go with foley cousins white nahas edwards and king yep we really needed to load up on ordinary smalls last yr. some of us were critical with the way they went.

 

[santa claws]

About 2 preseasons of work then
Which is about right seeing as they average over 100 games per player and we are averaging around 50

your joking the skinnys who played this week are well skinny. and in the main have not put on size in yrs.
edwards king nahas white mcguane nason what you see now mate is what you will get in the future.add the poorly skilled and no wonder we hang our hats on wins like this weeks.

 

[Infamy]

rubbish id take the bigger guy who can read the play the ball in flight anyday . just look at what most sides go with. the two most successful sides of recent yrs collingwood geelong they are big they are tall and they have good skills in the main.

Collingwood are no taller than Richmond and other than players like Dawes, Cloke & Brown they aren't that huge either. We need to give our players time to add on size, they can't all be expected to walk in the door ready to go.

 

[Bazzar]

Collingwood are no taller than Richmond and other than players like Dawes, Cloke & Brown they aren't that huge either. We need to give our players time to add on size, they can't all be expected to walk in the door ready to go.

And this weekend the Saints 187, North 186.9 and Carlton 186.5 all shorter on average than us, and i dont hear their supporters jumping up and down about it.

Add to that the Crows went with 188.6, clearly taller than us, and curently their are two threads on their board "Over supply of talls" and "We are in urgent need of a mosquito fleet"

Also it will be interesting when we play Freo in a couple of weeks as they had by far the tallest on the weekend at 189.3. Thats nearly a whopping inch taller than us this weekend. Will we go taller or stay with our current structure. Will be interesting to see that line up, and no doubt give us a better insight on Dimmas thinking.