Strikeforce Heavyweight Tournament 2011

[Magnum]

News has been out for a while now but didn't see a thread here. What are people's thoughts on the Strikeforce Heavyweight Tournament planned to start in February with Fedor/Bigfoot as the opening quarter final bout?

A very strong group of heavyweights have all signed up, with Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, Bigfoot, Barnett, Rogers, Kharitanov and Andre Arlovski all on board. Pretty freaking EPIC if you ask me.

Current brackets are shown below.

To be honest, for me this is probably the most excited I've been for an MMA event in the last several years. If SF can pull it off it will be amazing. Good to be a fan of MMA right now.

What are people's thoughts? Predictions?

 

[comrade]

Smart booking by SF by pretty much ensuring that one of Werdum, Fedor or Reem makes the final. Having the belt defended along the way will make for some pretty stacked cards.

All my fingers are crossed, hoping that this gets pulled off. Great timing for SF with the UFC HW division losing momentum with Cain out for at least 6 months and Lesnar off shooting animals.

 

[100action]

good move by sf considering they could not get their HW to fight each other, this could not have been a better way to solve the problem. Looking forward to Arlovski vs Kharitonov, both good strikers, could be a very good matchup if andrei's glass chin holds up.

 

[RobbyRoy]

I don't like that Fedor and Reem are on the same side of the draw but I guess they just wanted to ensure Fedor faces he or Werdum after what you would think would be a straight forward win over Bigfoot.

I'd love to see Arlovski make the finals but I think it'll be Barnett, provided his piss stays clean.

 

[Little Boris]

I don't like that Fedor and Reem are on the same side of the draw but I guess they just wanted to ensure Fedor faces he or Werdum after what you would think would be a straight forward win over Bigfoot.

Having them both in the same side of the bracket means 3 blockbuster main events*

1. Fedor vs Bigfoot
2. Fedor vs Reem/Werdum (for HW title)
3. Fedor/Werdum/Reem in the GP final

February is going to be an epic month of MMA.

* Fedor just needs to do the right thing and beat Bigfoot.

 

[Arecsa]

It looks great on paper. Overeem finally gets the fights he should be having in Strikeforce as champ. But let's see them actually execute this.

 

[Vendrell]

It looks great on paper. Overeem finally gets the fights he should be having in Strikeforce as champ. But let's see them actually execute this.

My thoughts exactly.

Anything can happen with Fedor and M-1. I think Barnett still has to get sanctioned as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the final in 2012 or even 2013 .

 

[SBI]

Yeah it is all very exciting, but what happens if Overeem makes the final? I assume he's still going to be fighting K-1, so the final won't happen this year.

I think it is great scheduling, but the problem is there's only really one guy on the weak side of the draw who will be title shot ready. ****, if Arlovski or Rogers make the final in ordinary fashion it will be the biggest let down.

 

[Ross]

I'll withhold my excitement until it all actually happens. There's sadly every chance that things will fall apart over the year due to things like injuries, Reem fighting for K-1, M-1 renegotiating contracts between every fight and Barnett yet to be licensed by anyone.

If it does happen though the three fights from the left side of the bracket will be interesting. Reem will manhandle Werdum this time and I'm leaning towards Fedor against Bigfoot by TKO and then bring on the awesome Fedor/Ubereem war!

I'm not overly excited about the fights on the other side of the bracket though. AA/Kharitonov would have been awesome in 2006 but not so much now, while Barnett hasn't even fought anybody decent since then. Barnett might still be a top heavyweight but things have evolved rapidly at HW since he beat Nog in the PRIDE OWGP, Dos Santos had just made his debut and Cain was still a month away from his first fight.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Having them both in the same side of the bracket means 3 blockbuster main events*

1. Fedor vs Bigfoot
2. Fedor vs Reem/Werdum (for HW title)
3. Fedor/Werdum/Reem in the GP final

February is going to be an epic month of MMA.

* Fedor just needs to do the right thing and beat Bigfoot.

Yes but whoever wins that side of the draw is going to win the tournament, you would think. Fedor/Overeem verse anyone on the other side would be heavily favoured.

 

[Gravel]

MMA live on ESPN said that Fedors camp wanted to meet either Werdum or Overeem in the Semi Final - I think that explains the draw.

Can't wait.

 

[RobbyRoy]

The more I think about it the more I like the way it's set out. Whoever comes out on top on the other side of the draw definitely deserves a shot at the champion, be it Reem, Fedor or Werdum (sorry Bigfoot).

 

[Deej]

What do I think about this announcement from showtime? Cause let's be honest it's showtime calling the shots not strikeforce/coker. It pisses me off. Bash me all you like magnum but I'll never support a fight model like how boxing has it IBF WBC WBA WBO IBO blah blah. Since day one following mma I've wanted to see the best fight the best and the way to make that happen is controlling fighters, get them all under the one roof set the fights and do not let the tail wag the dog, and the best placed company in the world to give us that is the UFC. Strikeforce is a mozzie buzzing round your ear in the middle of the night. They need to piss the hell off and go back to being a regional feeder org for Zuffa. 3 of those fighters are well past it, 2 roiders 1 hardcore ducker 1 not worthy and 1 ktfo last fight in ufc but now is supposed to be top 3 in the world? Showtime propaganda. Good luck I won't be watching.

 

[Magnum]

hehe, fair enough…

There'll be lots of good fights, not sure why you wouldn't watch them regardless of your allegiance to the Zuffa empire. As a so called MMA fan, you're missing out I really don't understand such a staunch allegiance to a promotional business. Anyway, your loss I guess. There are plenty of top class fighters outside the UFC, in fact I'd say the competitors in this tourney are at least as good as those inside the UFC HW ranks. I can't think of anyone inside the UFC who would be an outright favourite to walk through this tournament.

Anyway, all the UFC needs to do is share a couple of fighters like Dream and Strikeforce are doing and we'd see the best fight the best. YOu could see Melendez fight Edgar or Overeem vs JDS... Or Cain fight the winner of this tournament (once he's healthy again!) But the way it is now, if you enter the UFC you've gotta stay there, and you can never leave to fight elsewhere...

Now I think the sport is big enough for multiple orgs. I personally doubt that there'll ever be one org with every single top fighter in the world in it. And if we ever do get to that point I think the pro's will outweigh the cons. Regardless if the UFC was the monopoly or Strikeforce or whoever.

Hypothetically Deej, if Pride wasn't sunk when FujiTV pulled the plug due to Yakuza dealings, we might have seen them completely take over MMA. Would you have liked that? All the mismatches and other things you might not have liked about Pride? Well I feel the same way about the shortfalls I see in the UFC (and by the way I think the UFC are easily the best of the orgs currently going round, but I still wouldn't want them to be the only choice).

I've always thought that organisations who are prepared to share fighters (in win-win business arragements) is better for us fans overall than a single monopoly writing their own version of history, employing their own company line towing commentators, and forcing upon us there own particular brand of koolaid. It moves more away from "sport" and becomes closer to "exhibition". There are no set title shot process, a fighters deserved title shot can be canned because projected PPV revenue is poor. Fighter has to jump through 50 hoops before getting a shot whilst Fighter B gets a shot without ever even fighting in the division because he's popular. It lacks transparency and credibility.You mess with the boss, your fired and your have no recourse. It's too much power to have over fighters and in the end, the fighters us fans want to see are the ones to suffer. The shareholders I'm sure would love it, but we're not shareholders, we're fans of mixed martial arts and I for one support fighters.

Answer this: If hypothetically the UFC and Strikeforce had a 50/50 marketshare and they created a situation where yearly they could create a super event with a win-win business situation for both companies where the best could fight the best, wouldn't you support it?

In this current climate, thats a long way off, but its a vision worth supporting IMO.

Anyway, for the rest of us there are many highly anticipated HW fights to enjoy!

 

[alfy!]

Answer this: If hypothetically the UFC and Strikeforce had a 50/50 marketshare and they created a situation where yearly they could create a super event with a win-win business situation for both companies where the best could fight the best, wouldn't you support it?

I agree with most of what you say but this.

I'd rather have what we have now, with 80% of the best fighters in the UFC, fighting each other in every card, than to have 50/50 and only a yearly event.

 

[yeah_nah]

Like all business competition is healthy for the consumers (viewers in this case) but unfortunately Strikeforce only have a handful of fighters worthy of fighting in the UFC atm, pretty much making UFC a monopoly of elite level MMA - however, most of the "elite" level fighters in Strikeforce are in the Heavyweight division so I will definitely be watching this event

Noone can really be sure if these guys (Fedor and Overeem) can mix it with the best the UFC has to offer and it's only really due to the UFCs stubbornness that we don't know.

 

[alfy!]

it's only really due to the UFCs stubbornness that we don't know.

Not in Fedor's case, and I thought Dana has tried to get the 'Reem to the UFC in the past.

 

[yeah_nah]

Not in Fedor's case, and I thought Dana has tried to get the 'Reem to the UFC in the past.

It's possible that Dana could work out some sort of a deal with Strikeforce with profits split however they decided to put together some sort of a one off event like this tournament using the elite fighters from both competitions.

It wouldn't be the same as signing the fighter to the UFC, so surely Fedor would have no objections. Not too sure about Dana trying to sign Overeem - I would imagine if he did deny a contract it wouldve been a similar reason to Fedor for not signing.

Obviously something like this will never happen. UFC don't want to share with Strikeforce and nor should they IMO, it would be bad business.

and FWIW I think the reason we don't see Fedor or Overeem in the UFC is due to their own stubbornness - which I completely understand, but if they want to be known as the best they should be fighting the best in the world.

 

[Arecsa]

I saw an interview with The Reem awhile ago about the contract offers he was receiving. The UFC contract was too restrictive for his liking, and didn't allow him to be as active as he'd like.

I dont mind that he's not with the UFC yet. He's finally getting those fights against Werdum and Fedor that he needs first. After he's finished ripping through this tournament then it's time to start worrying about bringing him in to really cement his place as the number 1 heavyweight in the world.

 

[yeah_nah]

I don't think Overeem has earned this hype he has personally.

Do you really think he would be able to beat a world class grappler like Werdum?

 

[Arecsa]

I don't think Overeem has earned this hype he has personally.

Do you really think he would be able to beat a world class grappler like Werdum?

Sure do. The Reem is no slouch on the ground with many submission wins, his guillotine is vicious. His standup is also now well ahead anybody in MMA. I don't think he'll have to play BJJ with Werdum unless he wants to. Reem by KO, round 1.

These fights are his chance to prove all this hype is justified. I can't wait to see them.

 

[RobbyRoy]

I saw an interview with The Reem awhile ago about the contract offers he was receiving. The UFC contract was too restrictive for his liking, and didn't allow him to be as active as he'd like.

It's going to be hard to get Overeem into the UFC as long as he's wanting to fight K1. I think big money would probably make up for him not being able to travel around and fight whoever, wherever, but he seems to really enjoy the kickboxing fights.

 

[Deej]

hehe, fair enough…

There'll be lots of good fights, not sure why you wouldn't watch them regardless of your allegiance to the Zuffa empire. As a so called MMA fan, you're missing out I really don't understand such a staunch allegiance to a promotional business. Anyway, your loss I guess. There are plenty of top class fighters outside the UFC, in fact I'd say the competitors in this tourney are at least as good as those inside the UFC HW ranks. I can't think of anyone inside the UFC who would be an outright favourite to walk through this tournament.

Anyway, all the UFC needs to do is share a couple of fighters like Dream and Strikeforce are doing and we'd see the best fight the best. YOu could see Melendez fight Edgar or Overeem vs JDS... Or Cain fight the winner of this tournament (once he's healthy again!) But the way it is now, if you enter the UFC you've gotta stay there, and you can never leave to fight elsewhere...

Now I think the sport is big enough for multiple orgs. I personally doubt that there'll ever be one org with every single top fighter in the world in it. And if we ever do get to that point I think the pro's will outweigh the cons. Regardless if the UFC was the monopoly or Strikeforce or whoever.

Hypothetically Deej, if Pride wasn't sunk when FujiTV pulled the plug due to Yakuza dealings, we might have seen them completely take over MMA. Would you have liked that? All the mismatches and other things you might not have liked about Pride? Well I feel the same way about the shortfalls I see in the UFC (and by the way I think the UFC are easily the best of the orgs currently going round, but I still wouldn't want them to be the only choice).

I've always thought that organisations who are prepared to share fighters (in win-win business arragements) is better for us fans overall than a single monopoly writing their own version of history, employing their own company line towing commentators, and forcing upon us there own particular brand of koolaid. It moves more away from "sport" and becomes closer to "exhibition". There are no set title shot process, a fighters deserved title shot can be canned because projected PPV revenue is poor. Fighter has to jump through 50 hoops before getting a shot whilst Fighter B gets a shot without ever even fighting in the division because he's popular. It lacks transparency and credibility.You mess with the boss, your fired and your have no recourse. It's too much power to have over fighters and in the end, the fighters us fans want to see are the ones to suffer. The shareholders I'm sure would love it, but we're not shareholders, we're fans of mixed martial arts and I for one support fighters.

Answer this: If hypothetically the UFC and Strikeforce had a 50/50 marketshare and they created a situation where yearly they could create a super event with a win-win business situation for both companies where the best could fight the best, wouldn't you support it?

In this current climate, thats a long way off, but its a vision worth supporting IMO.

Anyway, for the rest of us there are many highly anticipated HW fights to enjoy!

Magnum we lock horns again! haha

Now I've read all that and had a bit of a think about it all and one thing I have clarified in my head is that actually I would like to watch these fights, in particular because I want to see how Overeem handles Werdum and the rest of them. What I don't want to do is contribute financially to helping Strikeforce/showtime so I may have to download a torrent or something.

Must say I'm not wildly turned on by Barnett Arlovski Kharitonov or Rogers, and only mildly interested in Fedor/Silva after all his bs over the past 4-5 years. It shits me to even see M1 Global's name on that spreadsheet. The big one I want to see is Werdum/Overeem and then if things pan out Fedor/Overeem.

Re your scenarios...

1. I'm not at all convinced these fights will go ahead yet so not going to get any hopes up.

2. Re Pride mate they died no point discussing what ifs, UFC are closer to gathering all the best across all weight divisions than Pride ever was anyway.

3. History tells me that sharing fighters is NOT best for the fans, and giving fighters too much freedom means they give you the run around and rarely fight (and when they do it's hand picked cans) - and mate it's Strikeforce history that tells me this. Overeem doesnt defend his title in 3 years? Give me a break that is crazy if that happened in the UFC people would think they were falling to peices. Strikeforce get a VERY kind run in the MMA media in my opinion.

4. Re having a 50-50 split between 2 orgs, it'll never happen. My ideal scenario is fighters are well paid but do what they are told and fight who they are told to fight when the org whats it to happen. Maybe a 2 tiered org where 'boring' fighters fight on UFNs and the more exciting fighters get on to the big show and their pay scale reflects this.

Cheers Mags!

 

[Gravel]

It will be interesting to see how/if the HW rankings will change by the end of this tournament.
Looking at the January MMA Fighter Rankings we have 6 of the top 16.
2 Fedor
7 Overeem
8 Werdum
10 Silvia
11 Barnett
16 Rogers

 

[Magnum]

Magnum we lock horns again! haha

1. I'm not at all convinced these fights will go ahead yet so not going to get any hopes up.

There's no reason not to, but yes with the Barnett trashing of Affliction I can understand your skepticism/cynicism. Then again, many fights never eventuate in other orgs too for whatever reason (JDS/Cain recently), these things happen. Nothings perfect. All I can say is they are all under contract for this thing.

2. Re Pride mate they died no point discussing what ifs, UFC are closer to gathering all the best across all weight divisions than Pride ever was anyway.

Yes the UFC has easily the biggest roster of fighters ever, but so would have Pride assuming the UFC folded into them. My question was hypothetical and you obviously missed my point that assuming Pride was the single monopoly in the business you'd be left without choice, stuck with a ring, with the screaming lady, the different (better) rules/scoring, odd "japanese can" / freakshow fight and so on.

Obviously I liked a lot of it, but these are things you might not like as much, just as I am critical of certain aspects of the UFC... so my point was having variety at a competitive nature is best for fans overall. I would be devestated if there was no org out there with knees to the head of grounded opponents for example. IMO we would lose so much as fans. (I can understand that this probably wouldn't faze you given you have no criticism at all of the UFC and could be content in just watching them forever)

3. History tells me that sharing fighters is NOT best for the fans, and giving fighters too much freedom means they give you the run around and rarely fight (and when they do it's hand picked cans) - and mate it's Strikeforce history that tells me this. Overeem doesnt defend his title in 3 years? Give me a break that is crazy if that happened in the UFC people would think they were falling to peices. Strikeforce get a VERY kind run in the MMA media in my opinion.

Your using the most extreme examples here. Overeem had almost nobody to fight over that period with a lot of BS outside the cage and had injuries. Took a while for Strikeforce to get their act together during this period. Strikeforce's heavyweight div was a joke. Its a different story now where it's probably as stacked at the top end as the UFC's is. Plus its not like the UFC HW div hasn't had its share of interim titles, delays and contract disputes over the course. Randy contract, interim title to Nog, then Mir, then Lesnar gifted a shot (because of the almighty PPV $), then Lesnar ill, now Valasquez injured. A lot of that stuff is out of the UFC's control too. It's not like Overeem was ducking anyone to defend his title, Strikeforce just never had anything worked out at that stage.

And there are plenty more occasions where it DOES work. Aoki fighting Melendez, Mousasi fighting Mo, Thompson going over to Japan and fighting Kawajiri, Diaz fighting Sakurai & Zaromskis, Mayhem/ Saku... etc etc with iron fisted contracts, none of that is possible. You tell me you aint interested in Melendez fighting Alvarez if that happens?

Fighters want to fight, to assume fighters "hand pick" all their fights when they aren't locked in to tight contracts is disingenious. They are still gotta fight there contracted fights in the org, for example Diaz is defending his title soon, Overeem will be in the tourney, they just get extra flexibility. It wouldn't make sense for the UFC to trade fighters now given that they are so much bigger than their competitors overall, but assuming there was a UFC/PRIDE situation in the future, it might make business sense to allow fighter trades.

4. Re having a 50-50 split between 2 orgs, it'll never happen. My ideal scenario is fighters are well paid but do what they are told and fight who they are told to fight when the org whats it to happen. Maybe a 2 tiered org where 'boring' fighters fight on UFNs and the more exciting fighters get on to the big show and their pay scale reflects this.

Your scenario is as unlikely as mine. Fighters having good conditions and job security under a monopoly is a pipe dream. Some would have it good, sure - the moneymakers. Freakshow guys like Kimbo, and Toney would also get priviliged treatment because they bring the cash in. Anyone who doesn't tow the company line or doesn't like the pay cut after their "contract renegotiations" is stuffed. You might be an awesome fighter but not bring in the PPV $ so your shafted. It's happened before, frequently - history shows us this too. It would be far worse if fighters had no where else to go.

It would be akin to having only ONE major bank handing out home loans. You really think us consumers would be getting the best deal then?

I'm not willing to sacrifice that just so "the best can fight the best", especially when there are other workable options such as potentially creating win-win business scenarios where fighters are shared (it doesn't have to be exactly 50-50 either). This keeps variety in MMA, keeps promotions honest and protects fighters who put their bodies on the line for us fans.

Anyway, you keep supporting UFC and I'll keep supporting MMA.

In seriousness I do appreciate your loyalty and passion for the UFC but you do at least see where I'm coming from, right? Cheers man