The Serious News Thread

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Gralin said:
People will always go looking for the exception to disprove the rule. They will always take anicdotes over evidence. Its human nature especially when you feel attacked or like admitting it takes something away from you.
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That's a major assumption on your parts and shows your ignorance and unwillingness to have a discussion with views your don't already agree with. Your opinions right and if you don't agree your wrong right?

Says a lot about you as a person that you cant distinguish between the majority and individuals. You're the one which is saying all white people have the advantage of white privilege even if it's less "its still there" as though you know their struggle, that's such narcissism.

I've struggled the last 15 years of my life trying to feel human, I don't I ever will. i can't leave my house without people staring or being filming or taking photos of me, do you know what it's like to be escorted out of a restaurant because how you look made other customers uncomfortable, there's thousand of people like me that deal with this everyday but you just brush it off because it's easier to generalise and group people right?


This time please don't put words in my mouth that I'm some how downplaying or trying to avoid the discussion based of your own biased assumptions
 

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theiaofseed said:
Oh do they? All white people, all white people ding ding we have a winner.

Does it matter where discrimination comes from or do you only care about virtual signalling? Why is it so hard to understand, acknowledging this doesn't take away from the discrimination the majority of people of colour experience day to day or the non discrimination of white people experience day to day, personal circumstance can overwrite said privilege, so how is saying "all" helpful in any way? You can help eradicating discrimination on one group of people without feeling the need to malign another.

I never said it was relevant to racial prejudice, this isn't just about racial discrimination but discrimination for people that different than the "majority". This line of conversation is about not using terminology like "all" to stop needlessly dividing people and grouping people on heritage and class.

Whole issue is people not caring about other peoples experiences and not willing to listen, which is exactly why racism is allowed to continue people them self might not be racist but don't care enough to push for change because it doesn't affect them. Just like you and Gralin not wanting to even consider personal experiences and rather just group people based on heritage
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Why do you think I'm maligning white people by calling them privileged? I'm white, there's nothing the matter with being white. Yes, all white people share privileges over dark-skinned people in this country. I think that we basically agree on that, I don’t get why you have such a bug up your arse about just saying it.
Bruno Oresar said:
The concept of privilege is one of the most vacuous concepts ever invented by the pseudo social sciences. Where does it stop? If I’m black, female, lesbian, have a disability and am transgender then I have led a less privileged existence than the straight black male. This differential somehow renders the black straight males opinion less valid. I’m more disadvantaged, or as the pseudo social sciences would have it suffering greater ‘marginalization’ or ‘disenfranchisement’, and therefore my opinion is more valid regardless of intellect, education or facts. Privilege is another form of identity politics or cancel culture. Its similar to when someone practices gross hypocrisy by warning a poster with a card even though they themselves just called a post as “BS”. It’s all about using cancellation, or shutting down the opposing view, as a tactic rather than using reason and logic.
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Although you call it vacuous (which I notice you don’t give any ‘logic or reason’ for, you just call it identity politics), the concept is pretty concrete.

One group shares a statistical privilege over another, eg. men’s wages being on average higher than women’s. It’s quite irrational for people (such as my friend above) to assume that this has a relation to the experiences and opinions of individuals. It’s usually people members of the privileged group who have an issue getting their heads around this (“I’m a man, but my wages are low, I can’t be privileged!”).
 
Hawk_francais said:
Why do you think I'm maligning white people by calling them privileged? I'm white, there's nothing the matter with being white. Yes, all white people share privileges over dark-skinned people in this country. I think that we basically agree on that, I don’t get why you have such a bug up your arse about just saying it.
Although you call it vacuous (which I notice you don’t give any ‘logic or reason’ for, you just call it identity politics), the concept is pretty concrete.

One group shares a statistical privilege over another, eg. men’s wages being on average higher than women’s. It’s quite irrational for people (such as my friend above) to assume that this has a relation to the experiences and opinions of individuals. It’s usually people members of the privileged group who have an issue getting their heads around this (“I’m a man, but my wages are low, I can’t be privileged!”).
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All! not even generally, why can't you see that's illogical. You're such a rational thinker big brain number one, please tell me. All it tells me that you don't actually care for individuals but just faceless groups.


" One group shares a statistical privilege over another, eg. men’s wages being on average higher than women’s. It’s quite irrational for people (such as my friend above) to assume that this has a relation to the experiences and opinions of individuals " This might have a point if I ever argued privilege doesnt exist which isn't the case now is it, nor does it have any irrelevance to what I said. White privilege can exist without white people having it, you're telling me the prejudiced I've lived in my life based on my skin colour, how would you know?

It stuns me how anyone thinks you will have positive change when label people by groups with zero exceptions, it doesnt matter that a white homeless person is treated slightly better than someone of colour thats homeless both are treated like trash*, you think calling a white homeless person privilege is going to resonate with him thats he's going to join your cause?

*This is why wording matters that was my point from the start, of course it's a problem that a person of colour in the same situation is treated worse but never going to get mass support when you blindly call people privileged when they're struggling to survive. You want as many people as possible to join the cause to have an effect but if you ever suggest that there's another way to address issues "Yuor doWNnpl4yIng iT" or "4voIDIng it"
 
theiaofseed said:
All! not even generally, why can't you see that's illogical. You're such a rational thinker big brain number one, please tell me. All it tells me that you don't actually care for individuals but just faceless groups.


" One group shares a statistical privilege over another, eg. men’s wages being on average higher than women’s. It’s quite irrational for people (such as my friend above) to assume that this has a relation to the experiences and opinions of individuals " This might have a point if I ever argued privilege doesnt exist which isn't the case now is it, nor does it have any irrelevance to what I said. White privilege can exist without white people having it, you're telling me the prejudiced I've lived in my life based on my skin colour, how would you know?

It stuns me how anyone thinks you will have positive change when label people by groups with zero exceptions, it doesnt matter that a white homeless person is treated slightly better than someone of colour thats homeless both are treated like trash*, you think calling a white homeless person privilege is going to resonate with him thats he's going to join your cause?

*This is why wording matters that was my point from the start, of course it's a problem that a person of colour in the same situation is treated worse but never going to get mass support when you blindly call people privileged when they're struggling to survive. You want as many people as possible to join the cause to have an effect but if you ever suggest that there's another way to address issues "Yuor doWNnpl4yIng iT" or "4voIDIng it"
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Absolutely the pinnacle of your misunderstanding. The white homeless person is still white. They may be underprivileged in other ways, but they don't concel each other out in some weird way like you're suggesting. We all enjoy privileges here. Every person that lives in this country, as opposed to one in the midst of war or famine, shares that privilege. It doesn't mean we all have a great life, just that we had the opportunity. Unfortunately society is not perfect nor fair, and many groups (and yes, individuals) get left behind.

You say that a white and dark-skinned homeless guy are both treated the same. Where's your evidence for that? What are the statistics around the likelihood of rehousing, abuse, rehabilitation? How kindly will the police treat them when they find them sleeping somewhere that's prohibited? How will social services and employers look upon any future efforts to get themselves out of that situation? That information all exists if you want to go and find out how you are deeply wrong to suggest there is no difference.

And please dispense with your hysterics about how I only care about faceless groups. Let's not have a pathetic battle about who is doing more to further the indigenous cause here on BF.
 
theiaofseed said:
That's a major assumption on your parts and shows your ignorance and unwillingness to have a discussion with views your don't already agree with. Your opinions right and if you don't agree your wrong right?

Says a lot about you as a person that you cant distinguish between the majority and individuals. You're the one which is saying all white people have the advantage of white privilege even if it's less "its still there" as though you know their struggle, that's such narcissism.

I've struggled the last 15 years of my life trying to feel human, I don't I ever will. i can't leave my house without people staring or being filming or taking photos of me, do you know what it's like to be escorted out of a restaurant because how you look made other customers uncomfortable, there's thousand of people like me that deal with this everyday but you just brush it off because it's easier to generalise and group people right?


This time please don't put words in my mouth that I'm some how downplaying or trying to avoid the discussion based of your own biased assumptions
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You're a hysterical shmuck.
You make an awful spokesperson for any perspective on life and no one here will have learned anything from you because of your insistence on belittling thinking different to your own.
theiaofseed said:
That's a major assumption on your parts and shows your ignorance and unwillingness to have a discussion with views your don't already agree with. Your opinions right and if you don't agree your wrong right?

Says a lot about you as a person that you cant distinguish between the majority and individuals. You're the one which is saying all white people have the advantage of white privilege even if it's less "its still there" as though you know their struggle, that's such narcissism.

I've struggled the last 15 years of my life trying to feel human, I don't I ever will. i can't leave my house without people staring or being filming or taking photos of me, do you know what it's like to be escorted out of a restaurant because how you look made other customers uncomfortable, there's thousand of people like me that deal with this everyday but you just brush it off because it's easier to generalise and group people right?


This time please don't put words in my mouth that I'm some how downplaying or trying to avoid the discussion based of your own biased assumptions
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Spoken like a person who's not black, and has no idea what the black experience is like.
Here's a tip. Let Jews let you know what an appropriate Jewish joke is, let Blacks let you know what terms referring to them are acceptable, and let me let you know that being a shmuck like you've been on this forum in this thread gets you zero listeners.

You likely have a perspective on life that is worth hearing I'm sure, but you kill that possibility by claiming some universal right to understanding discrimination.
Come back to the discussion when you actually wish to be heard.
 
I find this discussion utterly demoralising from every perspective, mostly from the complete lack of understanding of human psychology.

Only in this discussion can you have people agreeing so fundamentally with each other argue so violently against each other.
 
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theiaofseed said:
All! not even generally, why can't you see that's illogical. You're such a rational thinker big brain number one, please tell me. All it tells me that you don't actually care for individuals but just faceless groups.
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You know that you can have both? They aren't mutually exclusive. As you speak about disability I'll try and use that as an example, we know that there has been an overall issue with disabled people not getting the same outcomes in life as others (and this will be difficult to achieve).

We start by by lumping all abled people in a bucket and all disabled people in another bucket (regardless of their level of disability) to understand there was a problem in the first place. These are the faceless groups, as you note above. We find out there is a problem with the system that we need to address and provide funding. Again we assess and find out that we aren't seeing the gap being closed enough so we do more assessment and introduce the NDIS to provide better targeted funding to improve outcomes.

Now when we come to each individual receiving funding from the NDIS we look at their needs. People who need more assistance get more funding than those who need less. This is actually caring for the individuals, as you note above.

So without the analysis of the faceless groups we can't see that there is a problem to address and this in turn would affect the outcome for the individual.

In this case we are looking at race and the outcomes of life based on race. What we see is that if you are white (=abled) you overall have a better outcome than those of who are not white (=disabled). So what is the NDIS for this problem? I don't know but it starts by acknowledging we have an issue so we can think about solving it.
 
eldorado said:
I find this discussion utterly demoralising from every perspective, mostly from the complete lack of understanding of human psychology.

Only in this discussion can you have people agreeing so fundamentally with each other argue so violently against each other.
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Would be interested to see your views from which aspect is demoralising?
 
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ABA2E401-7CF7-42D9-A88F-7AD46043D8B4.jpeg Brad Battin is spot on.. if there’s a spike that puts our state and country back then these protests would have been a catastrophe. Let’s hope the selfish actions of these people don’t ruin more lives than this virus already has.
 

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tige19 said:
Would be interested to see your views and from aspect is demoralising?
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I had a whole essay, which ******* disappeared.

Demoralised from the standpoint of someone who passionately believes

A. there IS systematic injustice in this world

BUT also

B. demanding intersectionalist perpsectives as the only way to address this is completely and fundamentally flawed.


To cut a long story short, we would all be on the same page if we insisted on attacking 'systematic underprivilege' (which all but the most rednecked accept is real), and brings out the human urge for altruism, compassion, justice and inclusiveness, and had less insistence on attacking any specific groups perceieved 'privilege', which tends to bring out the human urge for self-interest, defensivess, and ingroup/outgroup thinking.


Once I get over my anger at my essay disappearing, I may write it again
 
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eldorado said:
I had a whole essay, which ******* disappeared.

Demoralised from the standpoint of someone who passionately believes

A. there IS systematic injustice in this world

BUT also

B. demanding intersectionalist perpsectives as the only way to address this is completely and fundamentally flawed.


To cut a long story short, we would all be on the same page if we insisted on attacking 'systematic underprivilege' (which all but the most rednecked accept is real), and brings out the human urge for altruism, compassion, justice and inclusiveness, and had less insistence on attacking any specific groups perceieved 'privilege', who tends to bring out the human urge for self-interest, defensivess, and ingroup/outgroup thinking.


Once I get over my anger at my essay disappearing, I may write it again
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Well put.

I feel the more we broadcast dialogue that creates separatism from either side (right/left/conservatives/progressives) will only enhance the entrenched views of people.
 
eldorado said:
To cut a long story short, we would all be on the same page if we insisted on attacking 'systematic underprivilege' (which all but the most rednecked accept is real), and brings out the human urge for altruism, compassion, justice and inclusiveness, and had less insistence on attacking any specific groups perceieved 'privilege', which tends to bring out the human urge for self-interest, defensivess, and ingroup/outgroup thinking.
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Ah yes, nothing like relying on the largesse of those who wish not be labelled as privileged to move the needle.
Not doubt those who have lived for hundreds of years with a proverbial knee across their necks appreciate that thinking, being that it has worked so well.
Maybe you just think a rejuvenated effort with new wording is required? Pig s**t.
How ******* precious are those who have managed the system to their advantage that getting a benign label can cause them such angst.
Give me ******* break. That's why the streets are alive in the USA and people across the world are giving a *.
They're tired of your altruism and compassion and justice and inclusiveness.
They've seen that at work.
Time to take what they are owed, which is no longer yours to choose to think about giving.
 
Brishawk said:
This kid was arrested by 9 cops for jaywalking.


This guy got arrested because he refused to walk towards cops pointing guns at him. His initial indiscretion was that he rolled through a stop sign.
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The conversation was about Australia, where the police standards are entirely different, but thanks for your research.
 
flinchfree said:
Ah yes, nothing like relying on the largesse of those who wish not be labelled as privileged to move the needle.
Not doubt those who have lived for hundreds of years with a proverbial knee across their necks appreciate that thinking, being that it has worked so well.
Maybe you just think a rejuvenated effort with new wording is required? Pig s**t.
How ******* precious are those who have managed the system to their advantage that getting a benign label can cause them such angst.
Give me ******* break. That's why the streets are alive in the USA and people across the world are giving a fu**.
They're tired of your altruism and compassion and justice and inclusiveness.
They've seen that at work.
Time to take what they are owed, which is no longer yours to choose to think about giving.
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Wow.

So you're actually advocating war between different groups? This solution is better in your eyes than a 'together' solution?


Your rant has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with what I have posted. I think you read one line, decided it was was enough to judge my entire belief system, and then responded to the imaginary person you've decided I am.

What aspect of my post do you specifically disagree with, Mr Let the Blood Run?
 
eldorado said:
Wow.

So you're actually advocating war between different groups? This solution is better in your eyes than a 'together' solution?


Your rant has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with what I have posted. I think you read one line, decided it was was enough to judge my entire belief system, and then responded to the imaginary person you've decided I am.

What aspect of my post do you specifically disagree with, Mr Let the Blood Run?
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Yeh, disregard his response mate - your post had legs & was from a collective position & one of the very few that I've seen that promoted a together future, not separation across future lines.

Good effort, for whatever that's worth :thumbsu:
 
eldorado said:
Wow.

So you're actually advocating war between different groups? This solution is better in your eyes than a 'together' solution?


Your rant has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with what I have posted. I think you read one line, decided it was was enough to judge my entire belief system, and then responded to the imaginary person you've decided I am.

What aspect of my post do you specifically disagree with, Mr Let the Blood Run?
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Again, you show your lack of understanding.
Blood doesn't have to run, not unless those in power insist on not giving up that power.
War doesn't have to be, if those who are in power agree to change that power structure.
You live in a country where the power and resources are strictly owned by - no, not the black indigenous - but the successive immigrant colonists who have put Aboriginals in small areas non-imperative to the desire to exploit habitable and developable lands or those rich in mining rights.
So it's easy for you to decide how you want the discussion to go, to decide on the language that gets used, because you have resided in a situation where the unempowered get no choice in how it goes down because their numbers have been decimated by genocide.

Feel free not to avail yourself of the real story or news, don't watch or listen to what's going on, and of course continue to offer your feeble opinions. They are privileged and weak for someone wishing to claim psychology as his crutch. Clearly you finished your studies more than 30 years ago and ride on the writing and understanding of white academics who have written the story of human understanding from an extremely limited and pivileged viewpoint.
 
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