Tucks contract

[tugga]

People are also forgetting that McMahon would have played 4 or 5 games at the end of last year if he wasn't injured. That's not my opinion. That's the coach's.

 

[CamTinley]

sounds like crap to me, he will get plenty of games as the season goes on

Presumably after Round 8 ... so he can only play a maximum of 14 games. This is what the OP is saying will happen. If this happens ie, if Richmond is selecting its team on the basis of depriving one of their best (top 3 at least) and most loyal players of their only source of income as opposed to putting their best team on the park ... that would be disappointing.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

--That means for him to play he needs to replace one of Cotchin Martin or Jackson in the midfield. So who out of those 3 would you have Tuck replace?

All of them.
not in the side- on the pine.
None of them play 100% game time and another clearance machine will keep us ticking over while they are getting their breath back.

Needs another role to rotate through to keep fringe mids going through the middle (nahas, edwards etc) ie Tucky fwd or minding a tall back while someone else is using the pine. I am hoping that is what they are doing with him at Coburg (learning fwd structures)?

If they are stooging him to stiff him on his contract thats despicable I reckon, also, having a performance management clause in contract that is not depedant on performance (ie he plays well, but they still dont put him in the 1s) would be very vulnerable to challenge I reckon.
.

That said, Grigg seems ahandy replacement, but lets face it, he aint 1/2 as tough, and hey play the both of em!

Same goes for the 'cant have Jackson and Tuck in the same team' crowd - BS I say - ideal combo to monster smaller mids.

GWS dont have a lot of big bodies, but they do have some classsy young players, I reckon they would be stupid not to snap him up if this rumor true and comes to fruition.

What we are potentially giving away is speed - esp if Tuck is replacing nahas / edwards who seem a bit out of favour, or Foley who hasnt been 100%, but we still got plenty speed I think.

 

[partycorolla]

I like Foley pc, but he's spent a fair bit of time in the centre, (as has Grigg so we can play Martin more forward at times) and he hasn't been competitive enough so far IMO, hopefully he'll improve. I think the decision to play him in the seniors straight away this year was sound as long as we had Tuck to fall back on when necessary. Without Tuck it's been a significant failure, we've effectively been a mid short, Vickery has had twice as many centre bounce clearances as Foley in less game time on the ball.

I agree with you Rayzor on most of this. Bear with me, I'm just doing some analysis on Foley's work as I type this.

Foley was in the middle for 0 of the 1st qtr centre bounces vs Saints (6 of them, 7 if you count the 1 with 1 sec left, middle 3 were Jackson, Martin and Grigg/White)
Foley in the middle for 3/11 in the 2nd quarter v Saints
Foley in the middle for 0/4 in the 3rd quarter v Saints
Foley in the middle for 5/9 in the 4th quarter v Saints

Game total 8/31. Less than I expected but maybe working up his fitness?

Deleted the Hawks game but noted Foley spent a lot of time starting from the wing, probably somewhere in between the Saints and Pies time

Foley 7/11 v Pies 1st Qtr
Foley 2/9 v Pies 2nd Qtr
Foley 5/9 v Pies 3rd Qtr
Foley 7/12 v Pies 4th Qtr

Game total 21/41. Building up.

So in summary, with Foley's reduced time in the middle and not getting a lot of clearances, I agree with you that we definitely need Tucky in there. Although I think Foley will improve with more games as his fitness improves.

 

[delediofan3]

Not at all, I fully expect that the club gave all players on the list a decent crack at extending their careers, but McMahon was hardly given a real chance at saving his career and yet the majority of posters here seemed quite pleased about it. Now that someone says that same thing is happening to Tuck, people are up in arms about it.

because he was crap, even at vfl level

 

[Rayzorwire]

Footy clubs aren't required to show loyalty, they are asked to build teams that can win games of footy and in turn give you a chance of winning a flag. Tuck has no doubt been a very good player for us over the journey but right now the club believes that they have kids that can be just as good if not better than Tuck has been and the only way to develop them is to play them.

Clubs aren't required to show loyalty, but when they don't it bites them in the arse.

As for 'playing the kids,' that's all well and good, we've got several 4th-5th year players who are perennial under-achievers and who should never get picked ahead of Tuck for any position on the ground.

...the truth of the matter is Tuck can't replace them because he can't play the role that these guys play, he can't be the defensive small forward that Nahas & King are, he can't play the defensive tagger that White plays because Tuck is a ball hunter...

Let's get one thing clear RT, all three of those blokes are failed midfielders and so is Edwards. They may have found roles in which they're useful to varying degrees, but none of them can stand up one-on-one against the best players in the comp. Tuck can, he's been beating those players head to head since he started. He's been a top contested ball winner and tackler for his entire career, but you suggest that the above players are better defensively, better in contested ball winning and better tacklers than Tuck is? They're faster, if you want to make the argument that Tuck's overhead marking and superior virtually everything else doesn't make up for that, then that's fair enough, personally, I think it does.

That means for him to play he needs to replace one of Cotchin Martin or Jackson in the midfield. So who out of those 3 would you have Tuck replace?

You're creating a false dilemma, we use those three, plus Grigg, plus Foley and others through the middle. It's pretty hard to make a case for Foley being in ahead of Tuck so far and while Grigg's running and linking up has been really quite good, he's no Tuck in the middle. As for Edwards, he's not getting anywhere near enough ball, not supporting teammates enough through hard run and he's butchering the football. At his absolute worst (and he improved his disposal nicely last year) Tuck is going to give you a significant upgrade on Edwards if played on a wing.

So in summary, with Foley's reduced time in the middle and not getting a lot of clearances, I agree with you that we definitely need Tucky in there. Although I think Foley will improve with more games as his fitness improves.

Nice work pc. One thing that stands out to me in your analysis is that Foley's spent a lot of time on the ball during our 4th quarter fadeouts in both those games and at key points of the Hawthorn one, which to me is the precise time you need a bloke like Tuck who will either get first hands on it or influence the contest with his tackling. Foley hasn't been able to do those things yet when we need it and in all reality, it's cost us two games more than any other factor. I'm all for playing Foley, love him as a player and leader and I'm sure he'll improve heaps with game time, but clearly we were asking too much too soon from him to throw him in the middle at those crunch points of games. We were relying on him too heavily and there was no need to with Tuck available. Just poor selection IMO.

 

[CQTiger]

IMO I think you'd find a clause like that which was deliberately used to achieve a specific outcome may be seen as a restraint of trade voiding the contract. Of course these things have to be proved and are usually settled out of court.

 

[_RT_]

Clubs aren't required to show loyalty, but when they don't it bites them in the arse.

As for 'playing the kids,' that's all well and good, we've got several 4th-5th year players who are perennial under-achievers and who should never get picked ahead of Tuck for any position on the ground.

Let's get one thing clear RT, all three of those blokes are failed midfielders and so is Edwards. They may have found roles in which they're useful to varying degrees, but none of them can stand up one-on-one against the best players in the comp. Tuck can, he's been beating those players head to head since he started. He's been a top contested ball winner and tackler for his entire career, but you suggest that the above players are better defensively, better in contested ball winning and better tacklers than Tuck is? They're faster, if you want to make the argument that Tuck's overhead marking and superior virtually everything else doesn't make up for that, then that's fair enough, personally, I think it does.

You're creating a false dilemma, we use those three, plus Grigg, plus Foley and others through the middle. It's pretty hard to make a case for Foley being in ahead of Tuck so far and while Grigg's running and linking up has been really quite good, he's no Tuck in the middle. As for Edwards, he's not getting anywhere near enough ball, not supporting teammates enough through hard run and he's butchering the football. At his absolute worst (and he improved his disposal nicely last year) Tuck is going to give you a significant upgrade on Edwards if played on a wing.

Don't be fooled Ray, I'm simply playing devils advocate here. I've wanted Tuck in the side since preseason as I can see the benefit of having him playing alongside a fully fit Cotchin, an improving Martin and Jackson.

At the same time I could understand why we left Tuck out to give a kid like Helbig a taste of AFL footy. Its why I said in the changes thread that for Tuck to come in it has to be for him as I don't see us gaining anything by replacing Edwards Nahas White or King as the role Tuck plays is at the opposite end of the spectrum to what they do.

The one big benefit we get by bringing Tuck in is we can now afford to push Cotchin/Martin forward of the play for longer periods and hopefully get the benefit of their ball use out in the open rather than trying to hack the ball out of packs. So let me just say that I'm looking forward to seeing how we go this week with Tuck back in the lineup.

 

[kainokaino]

I think you are missing the point, Tuck plays the same role as Cotchin, Martin, Jackson, Foley and Grigg play, from who within that group does he replace?

Collingwood for instance have Luke Ball as there only true in and under clearance player who feeds it out to the likes of Pendlebury, Thomas, Swan, Beams and so on.

Geelong have Ling and Selwood as your true in and under players who feed it out to the likes of Bartel, Chapman, Corey and the list goes on.

We need team balance, we cant have to many of the same type playing the same role and leaving us exposed in other areas.

And as others have mentioned, we were one of the best clearance teams in the comp last year, yet we came 15th.

And yes I agree gifting games to kids is not good, but out of that midfield group I put forward who does he replace that isn't performing.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Cotchin, Martin, Jackson, Foley and Grigg are only in and under players but yet in the same arguement you say Bartel, Chapman and Corey are not... When they clearly win just as much as there own ball if not more then our Richmond boys.

I think you are missing the point or turning a blind eye to a very poor coaching selection over the last few weeks. Like I stated, Tuck can play in other positions, he is very strong overhead and played good footy across half back last year.

Anyway, he is back in the side now and I will pretty much bet my balls on the line that he has a very good game this weekend and maintains hes spot for the majority of the year.

 

[RECORDS!]

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Cotchin, Martin, Jackson, Foley and Grigg are only in and under players but yet in the same arguement you say Bartel, Chapman and Corey are not... When they clearly win just as much as there own ball if not more then our Richmond boys.

I think you are missing the point or turning a blind eye to a very poor coaching selection over the last few weeks. Like I stated, Tuck can play in other positions, he is very strong overhead and played good footy across half back last year.

Anyway, he is back in the side now and I will pretty much bet my balls on the line that he has a very good game this weekend and maintains hes spot for the majority of the year.

No he's not

 

[THE_GUN]

LEPPA just confirmed that tucky is playing and jake bachelor is out with the dreaded sore foot.

 

[CQTiger]

big cheer when he came on from the Tiger faithful today

 

[TheCuzEffect]

Tuck to GWS for a pick 20 or under, That Pick To Port for Trengove. Done deal.

 

[peterbuch74]

With Jacko likely to be out for a couple of rounds and with Tucky's 10 minute burst after he came on I'd say he's safe for the next few games.

 

[Bojangles17]

With Jacko likely to be out for a couple of rounds and with Tucky's 10 minute burst after he came on I'd say he's safe for the next few games.

id say you're dead right

 

[delediofan3]

guys dont trade him, he had 12 disposals in a quarter and after a long career so far he deserves a final and we should reward him with one.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

guys dont trade him, he had 12 disposals in a quarter and after a long career so far he deserves a final and we should reward him with one.

well played Tucky
ball and perfect extraction within about 5 seconds
had a great impact.

And to those who said you cant have him and Jackson in the same team - well, that was the quarter that we WON

tho in your defence, we wont be having them in the same team for a few weeks as Jacko has booked a holiday for 3-6.

Seriously though, if we lose him we are just going to get our fancier mids injured. Sign him up for 3 more!

 

[RFC7]

The last 2-3 years he has been treated questionably by selectors, not getting picked because of "deficiencies in his defensive game" while we played kids who weren't ready for AFL level.

GWS should be desperate for some big bodied, hard working, tough, competitive senior players like Tuck for their first couple of seasons, getting flogged by 100 points while fielding an under 20's side is no way to build a supporter base.

 

[tigerfansince86]

Play Tuck in the middle everygame for the next 2 years and see what happens, an amazing player.

 

[cotcha now]

Play Tuck in the middle everygame for the next 2 years and see what happens, an amazing player.

agree