Vic Metro - Final Cut
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Do you mean out of the squad of 30 or out of the final 25.
If you mean the Squad of 30 which includes the emergencies the Gooleys could replace ....
Quinton
Becker
Sowersby
Nayna (I could be wrong but I think he is emergency)
Nayna can't hit the side of a barn with his kicking.
Becker is a fair player but at just 183cm I will back the Gooleys to be drafted long before Becker.
Quinton is average at best
Sowersby is average at best even though he is an AIS kid and therefor regarded by some.
From the 25 I would cut....
Herrington
Attard
Dowler
Dowler.....Even though he is a gun he is too young to draft this year so why have him take another possble draftee's spot unless for the Vic Metro it is all about winning and not player developement.
You have Little and Betts, why do you need Herrington who has done nothing this year, had a terrible trial game and was passed over last year after having a brilliant carnival.
Attard has had a very average TAC this year and although he can go okay at times I will still back atleast one if not both Gooleys to be drafted before him
As one recruiter said to me on the weekend, you could play the Gooleys FF, FB or on the Wing they are that versatile.
If you mean the Squad of 30 which includes the emergencies the Gooleys could replace ....
Quinton
Becker
Sowersby
Nayna (I could be wrong but I think he is emergency)
Nayna can't hit the side of a barn with his kicking.
Becker is a fair player but at just 183cm I will back the Gooleys to be drafted long before Becker.
Quinton is average at best
Sowersby is average at best even though he is an AIS kid and therefor regarded by some.
From the 25 I would cut....
Herrington
Attard
Dowler
Dowler.....Even though he is a gun he is too young to draft this year so why have him take another possble draftee's spot unless for the Vic Metro it is all about winning and not player developement.
You have Little and Betts, why do you need Herrington who has done nothing this year, had a terrible trial game and was passed over last year after having a brilliant carnival.
Attard has had a very average TAC this year and although he can go okay at times I will still back atleast one if not both Gooleys to be drafted before him
As one recruiter said to me on the weekend, you could play the Gooleys FF, FB or on the Wing they are that versatile.
hawkapatto
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I have not seen the gooleys play, so won't comment on them, but dowler could also earn his spot on form alone.
3 people (two all australians) who made the team last year are very lucky to be in this year.
3 people (two all australians) who made the team last year are very lucky to be in this year.
Just on Dowler......I've seen him play 3 times this year and he has 'Star' written all over him for one so young. He's a class act and it would be disappointing if he was to miss out on Vic Metro selction.
But my point is in this debate is that there are players that have made the Vic Metro initial 50 and right down to the final 25 that will not be drafted.
So why have two lads that have a better than even chance at getting picked up, been left out of the Squad/Team. It make's no sense.
Here's a job for those out there that have seen them play and have also watched a fair amount of the other TAC talls. Post a list of the best TAC players between 191cm-195cm.
Every AFL club wants a player in this height range that they can hopefully turn into a KPP. So a half decent player in this range has a good shot at getting drafted.
Rank them in order from most draftable and so on down the line.
I'll start you off
1. Jarryd Roughead
2. Travis Cloke (F/S)
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
Will Nathan Anderson make it
Will Mathew Spangher make it
Maybe Andrew Lee from Tassie
or Nathan O’Donoghue from Tassie
or Jono Pearse as a dark horse from Scotch College
or Chris Stewart who is his own worst enemy
If the Gooley's at 193-4 aren't in the top 5 in this bracket well please tell me who is.
But my point is in this debate is that there are players that have made the Vic Metro initial 50 and right down to the final 25 that will not be drafted.
So why have two lads that have a better than even chance at getting picked up, been left out of the Squad/Team. It make's no sense.
Here's a job for those out there that have seen them play and have also watched a fair amount of the other TAC talls. Post a list of the best TAC players between 191cm-195cm.
Every AFL club wants a player in this height range that they can hopefully turn into a KPP. So a half decent player in this range has a good shot at getting drafted.
Rank them in order from most draftable and so on down the line.
I'll start you off
1. Jarryd Roughead
2. Travis Cloke (F/S)
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
Will Nathan Anderson make it
Will Mathew Spangher make it
Maybe Andrew Lee from Tassie
or Nathan O’Donoghue from Tassie
or Jono Pearse as a dark horse from Scotch College
or Chris Stewart who is his own worst enemy
If the Gooley's at 193-4 aren't in the top 5 in this bracket well please tell me who is.
hawkapatto
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- Oct 4, 2002
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3. Ryan Willets
after that I have not seen enough to make a good judgement.
Not taking into account age, I would have Dowler 4th based on 2004 performance, but I think you only wanted to have players eligable to be drafted this year.
after that I have not seen enough to make a good judgement.
Not taking into account age, I would have Dowler 4th based on 2004 performance, but I think you only wanted to have players eligable to be drafted this year.
But sezzac, the objective of the carnival is not to get players drafted - it's to win it. I think that's fair enough too - after all the entire TAC Cup is based on player development, it's good to have a couple of weeks where the pressure is really on players to contribute to a winning side.
Whether the Gooleys should have been there on merit is a different argument, and one I can't answer because I haven't seen enough of them. But I don't think whether a player will be drafted or not is relevant.
Whether the Gooleys should have been there on merit is a different argument, and one I can't answer because I haven't seen enough of them. But I don't think whether a player will be drafted or not is relevant.
Interesting point GH but a couple of recruiters I have spoken to about this issue beg to differ with your suggestion.
One suggested the U18 Champs is basically a level playing field were good players should play against good players and/or close equals. They are then able to judge like against like. They don't care who wins they just want to see the best players go at it.
For example it has been suggested the Gooleys are only good at APS footy and not up to TAC standard. Several recruiters who are very interested in the Gooleys and rate them highly, would love to see them play against the best opponents in Australia to make a fair assessment of them.
The other recruiter bought up the following point.....
The situation arises in the TAC where Calder has been totally dominant. Their games are normally well and truly over at 1/2 time so how can you judge the likes of Barling and Little when their are being hand fed by their team-mates further up the ground.
Would Jolly get 30 possessions each week playing for Bendigo. Perhaps Matt Rosa at NB is a better player than Jolly because he gets 30 possessions each week in an inferior team.
In the trial game Jolly was playing out of his comfort zone and went missing. We both made mention of it. He's a good player but it was interesting to see him faulter on this occasion.
If the idea is to win the Championship then why haven't players been picked on good form and not on name as some have.
The Gooley's early form in the TAC was good to very good. They have been brilliant in the 2 APS games I have seen (Vs Scotch and CGS) and by all reports have dominated alot of other APS games.
To quote from last years U18 Champs booklet......
"The National U18 Championships are an important element in the National AFL Pathway Program......"
"'This program provides recognition, resources and support to local football communities while assisting in the development of players around Australia as they progress from junior ranks to rising stars of the AFL."
The aim for each Coach in the U18 Champs should be to get as many of his players as possible drafted or rookied, not to hold the cup aloft. If that happens it's an added bonus.
One suggested the U18 Champs is basically a level playing field were good players should play against good players and/or close equals. They are then able to judge like against like. They don't care who wins they just want to see the best players go at it.
For example it has been suggested the Gooleys are only good at APS footy and not up to TAC standard. Several recruiters who are very interested in the Gooleys and rate them highly, would love to see them play against the best opponents in Australia to make a fair assessment of them.
The other recruiter bought up the following point.....
The situation arises in the TAC where Calder has been totally dominant. Their games are normally well and truly over at 1/2 time so how can you judge the likes of Barling and Little when their are being hand fed by their team-mates further up the ground.
Would Jolly get 30 possessions each week playing for Bendigo. Perhaps Matt Rosa at NB is a better player than Jolly because he gets 30 possessions each week in an inferior team.
In the trial game Jolly was playing out of his comfort zone and went missing. We both made mention of it. He's a good player but it was interesting to see him faulter on this occasion.
If the idea is to win the Championship then why haven't players been picked on good form and not on name as some have.
The Gooley's early form in the TAC was good to very good. They have been brilliant in the 2 APS games I have seen (Vs Scotch and CGS) and by all reports have dominated alot of other APS games.
To quote from last years U18 Champs booklet......
"The National U18 Championships are an important element in the National AFL Pathway Program......"
"'This program provides recognition, resources and support to local football communities while assisting in the development of players around Australia as they progress from junior ranks to rising stars of the AFL."
The aim for each Coach in the U18 Champs should be to get as many of his players as possible drafted or rookied, not to hold the cup aloft. If that happens it's an added bonus.
Who cares what the recruiters think. Of course they would like to see the best 100 draftable kids playing against each other. It very much suits their purposes.
That doesn't mean that the tournament is being staged for their benefit. The TAC Cup is purely about development which irks plenty of parents, kids and watchers but that it is what it is about. The Championships are about state pride and winning a tournament.
Then I guess someone forgot to tell the AFL because they seem to see it differently.
In case you missed it the first time Weaver.....
To quote from last years U18 Champs booklet......
"The National U18 Championships are an important element in the National AFL Pathway Program......"
"'This program provides recognition, resources and support to local football communities while assisting in the development of players around Australia as they progress from junior ranks to rising stars of the AFL."
You Think!!!!!
I don't actually understand what your point is. Aren't Recruiters a major part of the AFL food chain?
I could be wrong here but aren't they partly responsible for making AFL the great game it is? Isn't it their task to find the next Hird and Buckley so the crowds continue to turn up, and the Giant AFL Machine can keep chugging along?
???????????????????
I give up. Who is it being staged for?
Of course once each team runs onto the ground they want to win for the pride of their State. But winning the cup should be a secondary reason for the entire concept of the Championships.
Identifying draftable kids should always be the Prime reason.
1. Ryan Willits
2. Jarryd Roughead
3. Andrew Lee
4. Thomas Murphy
5. Michael Newton
6. Steven Foster
7. Travis Cloke
8. Sam Robertson
I'd put all those guys ahead of the Gooleys. I'd also put 4-5 underage players ahead of them as well; Dowler, Burke, Bate, Neaves, Dunn, Thomas.
I'd prefer to use an undersize guy like Barling in preference to one of the Gooleys in the backline.
Big deal. The Rising Star award is part of the pathway and those players are allready in the AFL. The fact that the AFL bundled up some stuff to sell off to a sponsor means little.
Is school footy staged for the benefit of the AFL recruiters? Is state league footy staged for the benefit of the recruiters?
Sure they are important but they are just one stake-holder. The Championships are about winning the games and representing your state. Of course the recruiters are interested in the games but it does not mean they dictate the team selections.
Just because the Shefield Shield provides Australian cricketers does not mean that it is exclusively for that purpose. It is also a comp in its own right and players who are no chance of playing for Oz, or have retired still play there.
Similarly the national championships are an event in their own right Yes it is important for recruiters, and yes recruiters are important in the AFL landscape, but they are spectators. The matches would still be staged, and still contested for state pride even if in some bizzaro dimension there was no recruting.
I disagree completely. No competition should have the AFL draft as its primary reason for being ... not even the TAC Cup.
Bundled up some stuff ?????
Is it possible that the AFL designed a very good program so they could continue to grow the AFL product. Like any good Business, doesn't it makes sense for them to cultivate there prime source of revenue raising i.e the players, in the most professional way possible.
Surely the NPP enables Coaches and Recruiters to continue to find the best players around Australia each and every year and therefor continue to make AFL one of the best sports in the world.
Once the NPP was established was it then not good business practice to go and and find a sponsor to pay for it. I think you have got you chicken and egg mixed up here Weaver.
I've said enough on this subject. We will obviously beg to differ on this topic.
Perhaps we can revisit this topic at about 5pm on the next National Draft day.
Seeing AFL clubs rely on the best possible talent as its lifeline.I cant see why the clubs cant have the best possible talent on display for recruiting.
I think Kellett is a great example for 2 years he was in SA`s side he won AA one year but he wasnt keeping anyone out of that team even if he was never going to be drafted.
However, if a guy like Kellett was keeping out players who would be drafted it would be an indictment on ehat the carnival / draft camp/ underage fishbowl set is there for.
Surely if the aim for the TAC and underage comps arent put together to screen the best talent in the land for the major competition in the land they wouldnt go to so much trouble.
After all there is no real AFL/WAFL/Tas Comp. Qld/ NSW/SAFL/NT carnival and thats a much higher strandard of aussie rules than the u/18s.
Wjhy do you think the money is spent on the under 18 Carnival and not on the best amateur state of other league if NOT for recognising and identifying talent.?
I think Kellett is a great example for 2 years he was in SA`s side he won AA one year but he wasnt keeping anyone out of that team even if he was never going to be drafted.
However, if a guy like Kellett was keeping out players who would be drafted it would be an indictment on ehat the carnival / draft camp/ underage fishbowl set is there for.
Surely if the aim for the TAC and underage comps arent put together to screen the best talent in the land for the major competition in the land they wouldnt go to so much trouble.
After all there is no real AFL/WAFL/Tas Comp. Qld/ NSW/SAFL/NT carnival and thats a much higher strandard of aussie rules than the u/18s.
Wjhy do you think the money is spent on the under 18 Carnival and not on the best amateur state of other league if NOT for recognising and identifying talent.?
footyfreak11
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- Mar 28, 2004
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just a question. is murphy any good heard he hasn't even played many tac games?
