Zoning

[dean33]

Just wanted to know everyone's thoughts on the zone we have employed for parts of games during the year especially in the backline. It seems we get blasted out of the game like we were in the first half yesterday and the game last week when we zone instead of playing man on man.

Now I really don't care about results this year and I don't think dimma does either so I'm wondering whether he is just trying to teach the guys different set ups?

When we went man on man in the 2nd half yesterday I turned to my brother and told him we were a big chance now we were playing man on man and we got back in the game very quickly.

Anyone else got thoughts on this?

 

[Rustof]

Yea, i'm not sold on zoning. Teams have found it too easy to break it from a rebound and score quickly as a result. If we can perfect we might be able to start to restrict teams to lower scores. Though I don't see how playing man on man was every a bad thing, as you said, after we started manning up the game shifted in our favour and we ended up winning the game. I dunno...

 

[mcuzzy]

Defenders get too confused with zoning, they find themselves constantly looking for someone and too many opponents get left free

 

[theyellowsash]

when we get it going well it works amazing even stkilda was struggling at times to get the ball out after we scored a behind. other times its like a knife through butter. just gotta get the experience.

if hardwick can get them able to change from one plan to the polar opposite (man vs zone) effectively then thats a great tool during games.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

When we went man on man in the 2nd half yesterday I turned to my brother and told him we were a big chance now we were playing man on man and we got back in the game very quickly.

This may seem like an obvious observation to many, but even CC confessed on SEN before the game that our structure had possibly cost us the game last week. (ie zoning vs man on man)

At the moment we suck at zoning but how else can we improve, other than by executing it on game day so we go back and disect what we're doing wrong?

 

[dean33]

when we get it going well it works amazing even stkilda was struggling at times to get the ball out after we scored a behind. other times its like a knife through butter. just gotta get the experience.

if hardwick can get them able to change from one plan to the polar opposite (man vs zone) effectively then thats a great tool during games.

Yeah I think its all a learning thing for hardwick as he shows them different ways to play. Probably the thing I love the most about him, doesn't care about results this year when it would be easy to put numbers behind the ball and play for the win at the cost of long term development like a certain coach in the past.

 

[SteveoTheTiger]

Probably the thing I love the most about him, doesn't care about results this year when it would be easy to put numbers behind the ball and play for the win at the cost of long term development like a certain coach in the past.

I totally agree. A lot of other coaches might have flooded the backline to try and minimize the score against us but Hardwick makes our blokes do it the hard way, which IMO is the best way for them to learn.

Sure sometimes our zone lets the opposition through too easily, and sitting in the stands you can see it coming from the other end of the field. But im sure as a player on the ground its not all that simple and it will take time to learn when to zone and when to man up but im sure the way we are going about it is the quickest way to learn.

Its just painful to watch sometimes.

 

[folester41]

i think you should alwyas play man on man, why not have confidence in your players, give them responsibility and allow every player to show both a team and individual performance. every player needs to be held accountable.

at the same time i have seen the zone work effectively at times, but you need to have the players to be able to apply it effectively.

 

[Azzleberry]

Hardwick is still teaching the zone to the kids. As per the Hawthorn model, Clarkson got hammered by the media for a season for their zone and then...click...the Hawks players perfected it and went on to win a GF... Not saying this will happen to us but it is good for the kids to learn..
Once the backline is sorted, Hardwick needs to work on the forward structure. Against Collingwood we didn't have one and on Sunday, Adelaide dropped a man in the whole which really restricted our scoring. We need to lower our eyes more when going inside F50.

 

[_RT_]

The main problem we seem to have is working out who is responsible for what parts of the ground. At the start of quarters and after each goal is kicked watch the backline and you'll often see them all pointing to each other saying you cover this area/man, I've got this area/man. Personally I'd like to see them start right next to their opponent so everyone can see who is covering who, then once the ball is in play if they want to zone off and cover an area they are free to do so as long as they know where their opponent has gone and are able to get across and put pressure on them when the ball heads in their direction. Too many times you'll see our guys giving 15-20m to their opponent at centre bounces only to find that as the ball comes into the backline their opponent is 25-30m away.

I think we also struggle having 3 guys in Lids Connors and Newman who play the attacking defenders role. When we get the ball and are setting up a counter attack all 3 take off which leaves the 3 KPD to cover. They then get burnt if the ball is turned over in the midfield as there isn't enough time to push back and get on their opponents.

Once we get the balance right in when and how to attack as well as how to cover the opposition at stoppages it will work so much better. UNtil then we're just going to have to get used to the occassional breakdown where the opposition will score pretty easily against us.

 

[El Tigre]

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I think we also struggle having 3 guys in Lids Connors and Newman who play the attacking defenders role. When we get the ball and are setting up a counter attack all 3 take off which leaves the 3 KPD to cover. They then get burnt if the ball is turned over in the midfield as there isn't enough time to push back and get on their opponents.

Isn't that the model being employed at the Burgers? And who is left to cover a few opposition players. The Goo.

I don't mind having 3 running defenders, as long as the run backwards as hard as they run forwards. At times you've gotta put some faith in the ball movement forward rather than playing as if your definitely going to lose it in the midfield.

 

[ScallyWag1]

we seem to give up a fair few easy goals over the top at the moment. is that from pushing the zone up too much?

 

[Dr Tigris]

On zoning I reckon the best I have seen is actually in the European Champions League (not AFL I know). They all zone and the talking and arm waving is crazy. But when a team does it right the attacking team cannot get through to a good position. AFL is following the same path. The logic being by defending territory rather than a man you will stop fluid movement - as long as you stick to the plan and adapt smoothly as a team to the opposition. AFL is faster and a bigger ground, but the logic is the same. Zone is a lot harder than man on man, because you have to be aware of what is going on around you and think about what your team mates are doing as well as the opposition. RFC guys are still learning to do the zone properly. But if you can switch from man on man to zone and back then other teams have real problems dealing with your structures. That's what I think Dimma is going for. Taking the team to the top tactically and in terms of smarts.

Only being able to go man on man means that you have to have better players and hope the opposition doesn't work out how to break you down. The top teams, those that win premierships, do know how to break down other teams. So if you only have man on man you start way behind. I want to see premierships, and I think this is what they are trying to build to. Not just be OK each year.

 

[El Tigre]

we seem to give up a fair few easy goals over the top at the moment. is that from pushing the zone up too much?

I'd say thats more a reflection of the midfield rather than the defense. Look at the Pies, they always seem to have numbers around the ball. They too kick it from long in defense to contested packs, but they very good at regaining control and keeping the ball moving along quickly.

Zoning also requires significant pressure being applied to the oppositions ball carrier, to effectively reduce the accuracy in which they can place the kick. A zone defence can break down quickly if opposition players are allowed sufficient time to pin point passes. This application of pressure to the oppositions ball carrier has been a substantial improvement in the Tiges game, but still has a ways to go.

 

[dean33]

On zoning I reckon the best I have seen is actually in the European Champions League (not AFL I know). They all zone and the talking and arm waving is crazy. But when a team does it right the attacking team cannot get through to a good position. AFL is following the same path. The logic being by defending territory rather than a man you will stop fluid movement - as long as you stick to the plan and adapt smoothly as a team to the opposition. AFL is faster and a bigger ground, but the logic is the same. Zone is a lot harder than man on man, because you have to be aware of what is going on around you and think about what your team mates are doing as well as the opposition. RFC guys are still learning to do the zone properly. But if you can switch from man on man to zone and back then other teams have real problems dealing with your structures. That's what I think Dimma is going for. Taking the team to the top tactically and in terms of smarts.

Only being able to go man on man means that you have to have better players and hope the opposition doesn't work out how to break you down. The top teams, those that win premierships, do know how to break down other teams. So if you only have man on man you start way behind. I want to see premierships, and I think this is what they are trying to build to. Not just be OK each year.

true what you say about zoning in soccer, they have been doing it for years while it is fairly new in afl. i think once it is implemented properly it will be very tough to break through. i like dimma's approach though.

 

[Roachy8]

I'm not a massive fan of zoning in AFL preferring man-on-man footy but I accept the need in modern footy to be able to switch defensive set-ups as circumstances demand.

What I guess you find with younger teams is that it can be very new as few junior leagues would emply zones I would reckon. (Probably changing as we speak though...)

As I see it (& let's face it I know little!) the key to setting up and opperating a good zone defense is not to just get to your spot and guard your area but also to react and anticipate the other teams move.

Stand still and skilled teams will pick you apart through the spaces... move with the play, AS A ZONE (very important point!) and more importantly anticipate where the ball will go next and you are almost there.

The key is to shut down the hole before the oppositon or the ball gets there... creates hesitation, indecision and real and percieved pressure which should eventually lead to the turn-over you want.

As has been posted... can take a while to learn though & even longer to perfect & the better skilled teams will be better at picking it apart.

 

[_RT_]

Interesting watching Leppa on Foxtel tonight, basically saying that they go through a lot of simulation based training with the backline and it allows them to make decisions as they see fit in regards to the set up. As mentioned its going to take a while for us to perfect the way we want to set up, but as long as we keep at it I'm sure in time we'll see the rewards in the long run.