Carlton Youngsters vs. Richmond Youngsters

[thylacine60]

Let's just revist this in 2 years

Let's not.

 

[laguna]

Roughead had shown about as much as Jayden Post at the end of 2005 and was being spoken about as a failed draft pick in the first half of 2007.

Roughead kicked 40.36 in 2007.
The only thing he was being criticized for was he's goal kicking.

 

[Sin City]

This is a pretty weak argument. In the past there have been sides add less talent than Carlton have but have improved far more.

Who did Hawthorn add between their 14th place finish in 2005 and their 6th place finish in 07?

Birchall, Ellis, Guerra.

That's really not hard to match over a couple of drafts, even for Richmond.

It's a hell of a lot better argument than yours. One exception in how many years

I look forward to another "good 15th" this year.

 

[Simmonds2Hislop]

Roughead kicked 40.36 in 2007.
The only thing he was being criticized for was he's goal kicking.

In his first 9 games he kicked 8 goals and managed a massive 5.6 disposals a game. He was being written off. That's after doing little in his first 2 years.

It's a hell of a lot better argument than yours. One exception in how many years

I look forward to another "good 15th" this year.

The Bombers from 06-09.
Brisbane from 06-09.
Freo from 09-10.

There's 3 examples in 2 years.

 

[Sin City]

The Bombers from 06-09.
Brisbane from 06-09.
Freo from 09-10.

There's 3 examples in 2 years.

Richmond in 07-10
Richmond in 03-06

That's closer to what it'll be like at best.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Let's just revist this in 2 years

Yeah... let's not. Will still be embarrassing for your team.

 

[Sin City]

No, give me a reason that after this year of getting the gameplan right and getting more games in the kids we can't challenge for the 8 in 2012

You fellas gotta lighten up, we'll revist this in 2 years cos right now we gonna have to agree do disagree

Seems as good a time as any.

Richmond have only improved up to 12th in the past years. I expect them to finish 10-12 this year but be a legitimate contender to make the finals in 2014. They've done a good job in getting real contested work horses to the team like Ellis, Morris and Vlastuin recently and will be a more competitive team as a result.

Carlton players under 24______________Richmond players under 24
Matthew Kreuzer______________________________ Trent Cotchin
Bryce Gibbs__________________________________ Dustin Martin
Chris Yarran__________________________________ Reece Conca
Lachlan Henderson____________________________ Alex Rance
Jeff Garlett__________________________________ Brandon Ellis
Mitch Robinson_______________________________ Jake Batchelor
Troy Menzel_________________________________ Nick Vlastuin
Josh Bootsma________________________________ Tyrone Vickery
Jeremy Laidler________________________________ Dylan Grimes
Matthew Watson______________________________ Ben Griffiths
Zach Tuohy__________________________________ Brad Helbig
Tom Bell _____________________________________Matt Dea
Ed Curnow___________________________________ David Astbury
Levi Casboult_________________________________ Todd Elton
Kane Lucas __________________________________Matthew McDonough
Patrick McCarthy_____________________________ Liam McBean
Andrew McInnes______________________________ Kamdyn McIntosh
Luke Mitchell_________________________________ Brett O'Hanlon
Nick Graham_________________________________ Matthew Arnot
David Ellard__________________________________ Ben Darrou
Aaron Joseph________________________________ John Heslin
Dylan Buckley________________________________ Cadeyn Williams
Jaryd Cachia
Frazer Dale
Marcus Davies
Tom Temay
Rhys O'Keeffe

Richmond have quite a few solid tall prospects to come in over the next two seasons and what they probably need to find in the next few drafts is another really good medium defender to shore up the defence and then a Lewis Jetta type game breaker now that the engine room is complete.

Looks like they went a bit hard at the recycled/mature aged players and for a supposedly younger team than us they have five less players aged under 24. I thought at the time there were a few mature players that were good gets and a few they should've avoided in favour of young talent and this confirms it for me.

 

[zeeCFC]

The Tigers I rate there are Cotch, Dustbin, Rance, Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin and Griffiths. Vickery, Dea, Grimes and Batchelor i'd have on the brink of solid future 22 contributors while Elton, McBean, McIntosh, Helbig, McDonough have some work ahead of them. Don't rate quadzilla Arnot or O'Hanlon while I don't know the other names.

Our depth of top liners and likely types far outweighs their group. Cotchin is the best of that whole lot though IMO as much as it pains me to have Yaz at no.2

 

[blue gunslinger]

2nd tier

 

[Dramoth]

I love how the media 'experts' are suddenly jumping all over Richmond and are saying that they are potential top 4 candidates and are expected to make the 8th based on their picking up a a good defender, a couple of average mids/forwards and a couple of average forwards. All they have managed to do is throw some more mature bodies into the mix and are hoping that with some bailing wire, some spit and a lot of luck it will get them into the finals.

All I can see that they have done is consolidated themselves into the 9th place team again because to be honest... the guys that they got in (apart from Chaplin) weren't setting the world on fire at their previous clubs and Richmond paid overs for their free agents.

 

[Sin City]

Personally thought Lonergan and Stephenson were good additions too but I am really against a team at the stage Richmond are at using the other picks/list space on duds like Petterd, Knights and Edwards instead of adding young talent to the list.

If you're top four then top up all you like, if you're still trying to build a finals list then embrace the draft.

 

[Dramoth]

Stephenson has played 8 AFL games and is 30... He played well for North Ballarat but it's not really the same. I figure that he is purely on the list as ultra emergency backup for the Richmond ruckmen in case they get hurt. Lonergan wasnt going to get a new contract with the scum no matter what he did.

Still... they picked those 2 up as rookies just to fill up the numbers and shouldnt be costing them huge amounts. I just dont see them getting much game time unless there is a massive injury toll down at punt road.

 

[Dramoth]

Right back at you...

You gave a 4 year contract to an unrestricted free agent in Knights... a guy who has been in the system for 7 year and has played 96 games for a total of 68 goals... and he has been playing in the forward line for 4 seasons... Walker has played 2 seasons in attack and has kicked more goals as a forward in those 2 seasons...

But hey... it's a Richmond player so he must walk on water and be pissing platinum he is suddenly that good.

Ok... Chaplin... 4 years for someone who will straighten up your defence... fair call. I heard he has dodgy knees though so if you can get 4 years out of him... all good. But I reckon that if you had offered him 3 years, Port still wouldnt have bothered to try and match the offer.

Walker has been in the system for the same time as Chaplin... has had a few shoulder problems that has restricted him but is good to go now, and has still played more games that Chaplin.

Richmond... the only team that can recruit other clubs rejects and suddenly those players are world beaters.

 

[Dramoth]

Proof of Knights 4 year contract please, regardless, it's also been mentioned on the Richmond board that he is on a very small contract, good pick up which cost us nothing and could turn out to be a master stroke of a recruit if he can find some form, played the majority of the year last year in the SANFL and a few games for Adelaide.

Chaplin, again, very good pick up, still has 5-6 years left in him, and fits in nicely into our structure.

And not sure why you keep comparing Carltons Walker to both these players, Walker is a top draft pick who's done jack s**t bar 1 year (2011) and has been pretty average for the majority of his career.

Also not sure where I mentioned that Knights was any good, just pointing out the massive contradiction in your shitty post.

Chaplin might have 5-6 years left in him... and he is what you are hoping to build your defence around. Good on you if it works out.

As for Knights contract, it was being bandied around the media that he was signed on a 4 year contract as well. If that isnt the case, then I will retract my statement... when you have proof positive that he is on a very small contract.

As for my comparing both of those guys to Walker... Walker has played both in defence and up forward and is from around the same recruiting period as both of those guys. Admittedly, Knights went for #56 and has done 'jack s**t' bar 1 year when he kicked a massive 43 goals. But Chaplin is from the same year and is a 1st round pick from that year so comparisons are comparable.

And as for my shitty post... I do seem to recall that this is the Carlton board... and I as a Carlton supporter can post what I feel. I feel that Richmond would have been better off going for more youngsters over some of the rejects you picked up from other clubs. I did admit that Lonergan and Stephenson, as rookies, were not that much of a drain and personally, I would have preferred to look at younger project players than topping up with list cloggers.

 

[Wickzki]

I wouldn't call 4-years, $1.4m ($350k per year) small.

 

[Dramoth]

I wouldn't call 4-years, $1.4m ($350k per year) small.

Is that Knights contract and is it confirmed?

 

[Wickzki]

Is that Knights contract and is it confirmed?

That was what was reported during FA period in the papers and on the radio. As I hadn't seen anyone at the time (including Richmond fans) attempt to reject its validity I accepted it as fact. The one that I questioned at the time was Chaplin which several Tigers fans were quick to correct me on - great player on his day but that his knee was buggered which the Tigers fans with genuine knowledge of their club claimed that it all checked out really well.

 

[Dramoth]

That was what was reported during FA period in the papers and on the radio. As I hadn't seen anyone at the time (including Richmond fans) attempt to reject its validity I accepted it as fact. The one that I questioned at the time was Chaplin which several Tigers fans were quick to correct me on - great player on his day but that his knee was buggered which the Tigers fans with genuine knowledge of their club claimed that it all checked out really well.

Weren't we looking into Chaplin as well? Because I can recall a lot of talk by our fellow supporters about his viability as a long term prospect because of all the talk about his knees being shot. Which is why I was commenting about it to the Bitchmond supporter who thought I was being a bit of an idiot with some of my assessments.

If Chaplin comes good, then they have got themselves a 5-6 year player on the cheap... but I suspect that his knees will start to go in a similar fashion to Big Red's if they are already on the way out now.

 

[Wickzki]

In retrospect I believe that the discussion about bringing him to Carlton was by and large speculation by fans and those not one hundred percent in the inner circle. There may have been rumors floated by those on the inside but it may have been simply to drive his price up. I do believe that due to our contracted players pushing our salary cap almost to breaking point that in reality we were very much of the Travis Cloke or bust mentality. It certainly panned out that way.

 

[T2B_]

I love how the media 'experts' are suddenly jumping all over Richmond and are saying that they are potential top 4 candidates and are expected to make the 8th

Sounds like a typical Richmond off/pre-season to me

 

[HARKER]

Right now just about everyone is a shot for the eight.

One of the reasons that so many are jumping onto Richmond right now, is really for their pick-ups in the trade period.
Of course any player picked up through a trade will be twice as good at their next club than they were at their original club.
That's not Richmond's fault, it's just a silly perception that comes about every year.

Put that together with some of their close losses this year and 3 + 4 = 9. It's obvious.

No team wants injuries but Richmond wouldn't want too many as then they'd really find out the value of their stocks.

 

[Morro]

Knights is not a 4 year contract, might be worth checking your facts before attacking posters. He is also on minimum wage. Again check your facts.

Chaplin is on a 4 year contract at $350k per year. Pretty standard for a good not great KPD. he has had 1 serious knee injury. Hardly shot and has proven to be very durable.

 

[Juddalenko]

I think Dylan Grimes has bucket loads to offer Richmond if he can overcome his injuries. He and Rance could form a very solid back spine for them.

If I was a Richmond supporter, I'd also be a little concerned about Conca's development. Seems a little behind the curve. I'd be hoping he kicks on this year if I supported the Tiges.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

I think Dylan Grimes has bucket loads to offer Richmond if he can overcome his injuries. He and Rance could form a very solid back spine for them.

If I was a Richmond supporter, I'd also be a little concerned about Conca's development. Seems a little behind the curve. I'd be hoping he kicks on this year if I supported the Tiges.

Why's this?
I don't expect him to set the world on fire, all we need from him is a hard nose around the packs laying the tackles and getting the ball out, both of which he did to a level of a third year player last year and did it quite well. He'll never be a flashy star like Martin if that's what you mean, which I can understand, he never was intended to be.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

From a Carlton perspective now is the time to push for flag, that list Sin City posted shows you have a lot of young top end contributors to the best 22, as well as a young star in Yarran who can only get better. You'd want those top 6 or 8 to stay on the park and for another couple on the list to cement themselves in the starting line-up for a full squad capable of taking you deep in September.
List also shows you have picked up a fair amount of untried youngsters, which is always handy to test them out if things go awry as they did towards the end of last year for you.
The time is now for you lot

Richmond, well, yeah, solid core but not alot in the wings which is what we're trying to build up, the youngsters have shown something but many would like to really cement themselves in the 22, as the core consists of just 14-15 players at this point. The mature age recruits i'm hoping are just for depth if injuries plague us throughout 2013, aand hopefully then can give solid service like Leon Cameron did....not Brad Miller