Analysis Our forward line - KPF depth?

[Howard Moon]

You really think Gumby had that sort of tank? After almost never completing a preseason over his entire career? Granted, it was the player we wanted him to be... I see what you are saying in general, but i do think the sort of player that can play that role effectively is by definition a top shelf player. Licka can do it if he stays on the park. Goddard can do it. But it is that sort of level player that you need. Ambrose making the team as that style of player is a pipe dream at this point in time...

yeh fair point,

i suppose Crameri came as a rookie and filled the exact need. He was perfect at it until they tried to make him the central focal point (cause of injuries). When he was leading up the ground creating the first option he was great, i didnt see any reason why the new lad couldnt do the same. just dont expect too much, like we did in the end of crameri

 

[hurlygurdy]

yeh fair point,

i suppose Crameri came as a rookie and filled the exact need. He was perfect at it until they tried to make him the central focal point (cause of injuries). When he was leading up the ground creating the first option he was great, i didnt see any reason why the new lad couldnt do the same. just dont expect too much, like we did in the end of crameri

Yeah we got lucky with Crameri and then blew it really... But the price WB paid for him shows what that style of player is worth

 

[Stevey J]

Hey bombers, what are your thoughts on Chappy as your leading goal-kicker at $13 odds?
I understand he may only play 16 games but he's only real competition is Daniher and Carlisle and I expect Daniher to miss a few games aswell due to 'soreness' whilst I am unsure about Carlisle's ability to hit the scoreboard?

How do you rate Chappy's chances?

 

[eth-dog]

Hey bombers, what are your thoughts on Chappy as your leading goal-kicker at $13 odds?
I understand he may only play 16 games but he's only real competition is Daniher and Carlisle and I expect Daniher to miss a few games aswell due to 'soreness' whilst I am unsure about Carlisle's ability to hit the scoreboard?

How do you rate Chappy's chances?

Depends when Bellchambers gets back IMO, but yeah it probably will be Chappy

 

[The Bomb]

Hey bombers, what are your thoughts on Chappy as your leading goal-kicker at $13 odds?
I understand he may only play 16 games but he's only real competition is Daniher and Carlisle and I expect Daniher to miss a few games aswell due to 'soreness' whilst I am unsure about Carlisle's ability to hit the scoreboard?

How do you rate Chappy's chances?

Pretty good bet if he stays fit..

 

[hurlygurdy]

Depends when Bellchambers gets back IMO, but yeah it probably will be Chappy

Would it be true to say that Chappy got a fair few of his goals at Geelong as a result of exquisite delivery? I just don't see him being our top goal scorer given that JC should get 40+. People are totally underestimating him this year. When he gets going he will kick a few bags without doubt

 

[hurlygurdy]

Hey bombers, what are your thoughts on Chappy as your leading goal-kicker at $13 odds?
I understand he may only play 16 games but he's only real competition is Daniher and Carlisle and I expect Daniher to miss a few games aswell due to 'soreness' whilst I am unsure about Carlisle's ability to hit the scoreboard?

How do you rate Chappy's chances?

Not good. He is not supposed to play every game this year regardless of injury. Carlisle on the other hand should be able to pick up a couple of goals a game with his eyes shut.

 

[eth-dog]

Would it be true to say that Chappy got a fair few of his goals at Geelong as a result of exquisite delivery? I just don't see him being our top goal scorer given that JC should get 40+. People are totally underestimating him this year. When he gets going he will kick a few bags without doubt

lol, Carlisle won't get 40+.

 

[Big Fresh]

Yeah I don't think Carlisle will kick 40+. He's barely gotten a single mark inside 50 this pre-season. Five goals in two games isn't bad but I still wouldn't call it an auspicious start. Joe should kick more, especially if Carlisle keeps getting the best defender.

 

[hurlygurdy]

lol, Carlisle won't get 40+.

lol, you will eat those words

 

[Whispering_Jack]

lol, you will eat those words

I think he would be happy if he has to eat those words (as will I )

 

[hurlygurdy]

Yeah I don't think Carlisle will kick 40+. He's barely gotten a single mark inside 50 this pre-season. Five goals in two games isn't bad but I still wouldn't call it an auspicious start. Joe should kick more, especially if Carlisle keeps getting the best defender.

So in an inauspicious start with midfielders either out or rusty, in a forward line that hasn't had match day experience, 5 goals in 2 games is a problem? Which incidentally is on track for a 55 goal season? (Not that i expect him to get that!).
The thing is, if you think Carlisle cannot get 40 goals this year then you are essentially saying that his move to the forward line has been and will a big mistake. There is no doubt that to justify the move we need him to get a couple of goals a game and that means 40 odd for the year.
I really don't understand why anyone would doubt he is capable of that? He is a massive unit, a booming kick and is one of the best contested marks in the comp! What does 1 and 1 equal people?!

 

[eth-dog]

lol, you will eat those words

If he kicked 40 goals he'd be a top 20 forward in the game. No offense but I think you're overrating him

 

[Big Fresh]

So in an inauspicious start with midfielders either out or rusty, in a forward line that hasn't had match day experience, 5 goals in 2 games is a problem? Which incidentally is on track for a 55 goal season? (Not that i expect him to get that!).
The thing is, if you think Carlisle cannot get 40 goals this year then you are essentially saying that his move to the forward line has been and will a big mistake. There is no doubt that to justify the move we need him to get a couple of goals a game and that means 40 odd for the year.
I really don't understand why anyone would doubt he is capable of that? He is a massive unit, a booming kick and is one of the best contested marks in the comp! What does 1 and 1 equal people?!

The poor delivery from the midfield definitely does factor into his inability to take a mark near goal, but I'm not overly confident of that improving. It should've improved over the off season and pre-season but it didn't. 40 goals isn't a ridiculous suggestion at all - I just think 30-40 is more realistic. If he gets over 30 he'll have done better than Hurley ever has. He has the tools to be a great forward - in addition to what you said he seems more capable than most key forwards at ground level - but I think it'll take some time for him to learn how and where to lead, to build confidence, and also to get quality delivery. That's very much still a work in progress.

 

[hurlygurdy]

If he kicked 40 goals he'd be a top 20 forward in the game. No offense but I think you're overrating him

Just think of the marks he is going to take this year... Woweee!
Here comes the CAR-TRAIN!!!! (insert gif of broken pack here)

 

[Itsmyshow]

Jake is a better defender than forward, as is Hurley, but I think Hurley's work rate as a forward is superior, his movement as a forward dictates space inside forward 50, Jake sort of plonks there. I think Jake is an ideal swingman, but I think by about Round 3 we will see Hurley return to CHF and Jake back again, as much as I think Hurley could be an All Australian CHB, but in our structure, he is our best option up forward.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Jake is a better defender than forward, as is Hurley, but I think Hurley's work rate as a forward is superior, his movement as a forward dictates space inside forward 50, Jake sort of plonks there. I think Jake is an ideal swingman, but I think by about Round 3 we will see Hurley return to CHF and Jake back again, as much as I think Hurley could be an All Australian CHB, but in our structure, he is our best option up forward.

How you feel able to say that before round one absolutely and utterly baffles me. It will always take two defenders to stop Carlisle marking the ball, that in itself is huge.

 

[Itsmyshow]

How you feel able to say that before round one absolutely and utterly baffles me. It will always take two defenders to stop Carlisle marking the ball, that in itself is huge.

Because there are natural footballers behind the ball, guys that play their best football in that situation, from what I have seen of Jake that is what I see, but I am more than happy for that not to be the case. JD on the other hand is a natural forward. The comparison for me is just that workrate as a forward, Hurley has it in spades.

 

[The Bomb]

I think once Bellchambers returns a forward line with Carlisle, Daniher, Bellchambers / Ryder will cause problems for most teams, all of these guys can take a mark and they have plenty of height. If we can get them all working well together we will be able to isolate our best match up deep which will be good.
I think over the next few years we could have a pretty special forward / ruck setup.

 

[The Bomb]

Because there are natural footballers behind the ball, guys that play their best football in that situation, from what I have seen of Jake that is what I see, but I am more than happy for that not to be the case. JD on the other hand is a natural forward. The comparison for me is just that workrate as a forward, Hurley has it in spades.

While Hurley is in defence it is only a matter of time before he is hitting Daniher, Carlisle or Bellchambers lace out, Hurley has a awesome pass while the others have great marking skills, I just think this is a pretty important part of our game going forward, I'm much more happy with Hurley doing the passing and not the marking, and Carlisle doing the marking and not the passing.
Plus when the ball gets kicked long into defence having Hurley there has me feeling pretty relaxed knowing he will make all the opposition forwards really earn their goals.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Because there are natural footballers behind the ball, guys that play their best football in that situation, from what I have seen of Jake that is what I see, but I am more than happy for that not to be the case. JD on the other hand is a natural forward. The comparison for me is just that workrate as a forward, Hurley has it in spades.

Except that Hurley didn't create space in the fwd line, led to the pockets far too often, missed clutch goals and led early far too often. He was not a good fwd, but because of his amazing work rate he was able to impact on games. The other thing Hurley cannot do is take pack marks.

So Carlisle up fwd has him for everything bar work ethic, which can be trained somewhat into him. He also is learning the position and has had what 2 praccy match games where we were going through the motions to be judged on. His move may fail, but perhaps we should wait till seasons end to make judgement.

 

[Hartnet]

Except that Hurley didn't create space in the fwd line, led to the pockets far too often, missed clutch goals and led early far too often. He was not a good fwd, but because of his amazing work rate he was able to impact on games. The other thing Hurley cannot do is take pack marks.

So Carlisle up fwd has him for everything bar work ethic, which can be trained somewhat into him. He also is learning the position and has had what 2 praccy match games where we were going through the motions to be judged on. His move may fail, but perhaps we should wait till seasons end to make judgement.

Describes Hurley to a tee! its funny, it seems there was a lot of people wanting Hurley to go back and now he's there people are desperate for him to go forward. and its only been 3 pre season games. games i want both of them back but sadly out of necessity one has to play forward. i just hope playing Carlisle forward wont stunt his growth like i believe it has with Hurley, as i always though we'd move him back. you cant argue the fact he'd be a better backman if he'd played there permanently from day dot. Carlisle was so close to all Australian FB last year, hope we don't ruin a good thing. i don't mind if we plan to play Carlisle forward for the next ten years. but i just hope we don't play him there for 2 wasted years then move him back.

just quickly, might get ridiculed for saying this, but id love to see fletcher play a bit out of FF. Think because of his wisdom and knowledge he'd surprise a lot of people of how well he'd play

 

[Smokin]

Fletcher could be an option - for North Id go with Goddard or Jobe to start in the square next to Carlisle.

They are smart, good marks and can play forward. They will lead, and draw opponents with them. We have to hit up these leads. This should allow Jake to to left near one on one and no club will allow Jobe and Goddard to run off on dummy leads.

Chapman and Daniher to push up the ground, with say Jetta/Merrett chained to a 30m radius of Carlisle.

Depending on how it goes, constantly switch Watson/BJ and see about Daniher/Carlisle switching.

 

[BrunoV]

yeh fair point,

i suppose Crameri came as a rookie and filled the exact need. He was perfect at it until they tried to make him the central focal point (cause of injuries). When he was leading up the ground creating the first option he was great, i didnt see any reason why the new lad couldnt do the same. just dont expect too much, like we did in the end of crameri

Just got through the first quarter of the Tigers game.

Ambrose was easily the most active tall forward. Repeat efforts at ground level were good, worked hard to pressure at ground level, took a mark on the wing on the lead, should have been rewarded with mark/free kick directly in front 25m out, 5 or 6 touches in total and even provided a link on the opposition side of the circle at one stage.

Basically doing everything we want that third tall/midsized/leading forward to be doing.

Kicking action pretty bad but if that is his first 20 minutes in the big leagues I'd say what we need is right under our noses.

Punt Road is a postage stamp too. Would be even better suited to the open spaces of the G (and to a less extent Docklands).

 

[BrunoV]

Jake is a better defender than forward, as is Hurley, but I think Hurley's work rate as a forward is superior, his movement as a forward dictates space inside forward 50, Jake sort of plonks there. I think Jake is an ideal swingman, but I think by about Round 3 we will see Hurley return to CHF and Jake back again, as much as I think Hurley could be an All Australian CHB, but in our structure, he is our best option up forward.

With Hurley it was always about the work rate. He'd certainly descended into a bad place as far as his marking was concerned but it was uncharacteristic and he still always worked his arse off to breath life into the forwardline.